Revolver

I'm still mystified by this. I've attended all 3 Nationals and at no time witnessed anything close to getting us a 'bad name'. Both on and off the track people behaved themselves and didn't do anything dangerous or anti-social.

Who do we have a bad name with and why???

Revolver

I agree. This whole arrangement has depended on trust and open communication about matters of $$$. The amount in question does not matter - it is the lack of transparency that I am concerned about.

Funnily enough, it worked fine without a club structure and now that we have one (allegedly), it has gone to ****.

If you expect strangers to fork out $$$ to one another on the strength of what they read in some chat forum, you had better be prepared to be up front about what you're doing with it and what's to happen to any surplus - not just go to ground or make noises about 'future plans' that have patently come to nothing.

And getting all snotty with me (again) won't change any of that. I call on the office bearers of that club to make known to members (publicly) what is to happen to that surplus money.

auzoom

My belief is that they have confused RX-8 and possibly XR8 ? maybe? possibly?

enforcer

Post # 83 refers..."I was able to learn about 12 months ago an RX8 driver was allegedly driving erratically around the track, and ended up crashing into a side wall causing considerable damage. He was reluctant to provide any details of the event or identify the driver involved (quite rightly so) but the incident caused the club some grief. I assured him that this incident had no connection with our club, nor had any of our members ever caused any similar issues or grief in the history of the club. I informed him of some of our occupations (yes Kall including me!) and some of our stakeholder relationships, which made him feel a bit more at ease. He became a lot more positive and amicable in his discussion."

This understandably explained his relunctance to be very enthusiastic, however by not providing us with the time, date, or car details relating to the incident did not help our cause of who was responsible. It would be nice to think it was an XR8, but he was adamant it was one of our cars....and I guess we'll never know.

timbo

Who are the office bearers?

enforcer

I'm not sure who has got what, but I suggest surplus monies should be kept in each respective State pending future National events.

It is my recommendation all monies raised is applied to National events in that State, and for no other purpose. It is our firm policy that no surplus monies are to be distributed to any individual member. We are also keeping a statement or record of accounts, which was disclosed at our last Annual Nats meeting.

As long as each State knows who is managing funds, I see no reason why we should publicise the same. I have no doubt there will be another future Nats proposal in Queensland, and when the time comes our respective committee will need every single cent to help get it up and running....

MACCAA

Hmmm I'm a bit confused here."It is our firm policy that no surplus monies are to be distributed to any individual member".Who's policy?As a member,I don't recall any meetings asking us as members about this.And on 11th Oct 07,when discussing proposed entry fees for the 2008 Nats,you said to allow a bit extra on the fees "because its a lot easier to organise a refund for everyone"if there was a surplus...So on the one hand we're told there can't be refunds,yet earlier you say that's how you'd handle any surplus from the proposed 2008 Nats.Which is it?
"We are also keeping a statement or record of accounts,which was disclosed at our last Annual Nats meeting".Also,as a member I have never seen any records of anything from any meetings.Has anyone?How can anything be decided without asking the members?
As far as keeping the money in Queensland for future Nats...Purleese!
The reason we went to Winton in 2007 was that despite talk in 2006 nothing eventuated in Qld.It was then offered to QLD again for 2008,and we know how well that went.Without going into specifics,Qld's track record on running Nats ain't that flash.
The surplus from the 2006 Nats resulted from the cancellation of the 2006 Nats number plates,which each and every entrant paid for.They were on the entry form,we paid for them,and we didn't get them.FACT.
The money came from entrants in all states,but primarily NSW and Vic,for an event held at Wakefield,in NSW,not Qld.FACT.
I ran the Scrutineering,organised the accomodation on the day,did the driver training,cleaned the cars with the Meguiars deal,and ran the track.I was pulled in at the 11th hour because of the withdrawal of an organiser from Qld at the very last minute.lI am from NSW,not Qld.FACT.
It was the 2006 RX8 Nationals,not the 2006 QLD RX8 Nationals.The entry money went to Qld purely for administrative purposes,just as the 2005 Nats money went to ACT,where the organiser was.That didn't give the ACT any claim on the event.[Nor did they claim it]They are the Nationals,they belong to us all,not individuals.
I have been heavily involved in the first two Nats at Wakefield,so I think I'm entitled to my views as one who has actively supported and run the Nats from their inception by Timbo in 2005.
How it can be suggested that the money should stay in Qld for all eternity for a possible future Nats beggars belief.
This "club" that we,as entrants in the 2006 Nats,are members of,was formed without any consultation or agreement with the people who are now members.We didn't get to vote for Office bearers,or even be asked if we wanted it.
It has proven beyond all shadow of doubt to be the best ad ever for not having a formal Car Club.

enforcer

Macca, first of all the policy that no surplus monies are to be distributed to any individual member is a given and was said to reinforce what is done in any organisation . The 'refund' was suggested from previous organisers who were aware there can be unexpected costs leading into the event, and it's a lot easier to organise a refund for people than to pay extra on the day. To clarify, there is a record of accounts, which was shown at our last meeting,

I can't comment on what happened with the Winton Nats, nor the Nats number plates arrangements as I wasn't part of it then, but from my understanding each State has its own separate account for organising the Nats.

Are you suggesting surplus monies from each State should be pooled together into the one account? Please clarify.

takahashi

I apologize to enter this conversation Lens but I have to make something very clear.

OzRenesis (as a car club) was invited to organise last year Nats because of the reason that MACCAA stated above. And, we had no affiliation with other car clubs during the whole preparation process. The running of the Nationals in 2007 @ Winton is a stand alone event and have nothing to do with organizers in 2006 and before.

Hope it is clear enough.

MACCAA

Hi Taka
Yes I understand this,as you remember I was the one that asked OzRenesis to consider running the 2007 Nats as those previously going to do something hadn't started anything.OzRenesis took it on,and we had a great time.
The point I was making is that the Nats belong to all of us,not any individual states.
Cheers
Len

enforcer

To those who have been involved in previous Nats (and longer than me), can someone please explain what should be happening with the surplus funds sitting in each State?

Revolver

Trev, you keep repeating this concept of the surplus money being divided between states. That is news to me. My understanding was that all 2006 Nats entrants joined a club, of which Hymee and xxup were/are the office bearers (there may have been others, I don't know/can't remember).

The idea was that if any money was left over from the 2006 Nats, that would be used to partially fund the 2007 Nats, which Qld members were keen to hold in their state, having travelled down to Wakefield 2 years in a row. We all thought that was fair enough and waited to see if that event would happen.

History has shown that for two years in a row now nothing has transpired in Qld. OzRenesis came to the rescue last year and they cobbled together a National event at Winton, which went off reasonably well (thanks again to Andrew, Kall, et al who all worked hard to make it happen). A number of us called for the surplus from 2006 to be applied to that event but there was the predictable pissing contest between clubs as to who should control the funds and basically those of us who asked for the $$$ to be spent got told to shut up and **** off (I'm paraphrasing here but it was hardly amicable, which really surprised me at the time given previous good relations between all involved).

Ultimately, MACCAA, myself and others backed down and thought we'll give them another chance to convene a national event in Qld in 2008. We now know that is not going to happen and there has been stony silence from the office bearers of the club formed in 2006. In answer to Timbo's question, I don't have a clue who the current office bearers are or where the money is held. There have been no meetings and if accounts exist copies have not been provided to me or any other 2006 club member to my knowledge.

It's not a huge amount of money, relatively speaking, and I agree that it is probably not worth trying to refund it to individual members of the 2006 club but I do believe that the spirit in which it was raised was to fund national RX8 events, not a Qld RX8 event, so it should be applied to the next national RX8 event, wherever it may be held and irrespective of who convenes it. It will help defray costs and assist to keep such an event going.

Should the office bearers or other members of that 2006 club have a different view, let's hear it. In the interests of transparency and to allow everyone to understand what is proposed, that should be done in the open forum. I fail to see any reason why it should be whispered about in PM's, etc but again, if you think there is a good reason to do so, let's hear it.

As MACCAA has said, this has all been a classic advertisement for why formal car clubs suck, especially when members are scattered so far and wide. Timbo predicted this problem when organising the first one (which is why we deliberately avoided setting up anything formal) and I'm really sorry to say that he was dead right. And this is coming from two blokes who have walked the walk as distinct from merely talking the talk!!!

Revolver

When was the meeting held? Where was it held? Who attended? Was notice given to other members? Were proxies invited? Has the 2006 club become a de facto Qld club?

Your idea of a 'given' ignores that an integral part of that policy was that the money would be spent on the next nationals event. Not squirrelled away unless or until someone could be bothered to organise a national event in Qld.

And I think you have a huge frigging hide to suggest that the fees of the next event, whenever that may be (?????????????????), be jacked up to allow for contingencies given the clusterfuck management of the existing surplus!!! I certainly won't be paying money to such an event unless it is made very clear how and when any such surplus is to used!!!

Revolver

If the small minded ***** who run this Morgan Park joint decide to tar every owner of the car with one brush simply as a result of a single incident that did not involve any club (unless of course the 2006 club has been running events that I'm not aware of), then I wouldn't **** on their miserable strip of bitumen. Really, that is a most extraordinary attitude to hold. I know the owners of some of these regional tracks are pretty amateurish in their approach but it really does beggar belief that their 'enthusiasm' can be dented by a one off accident. And it certainly doesn't encourage southerners to travel 1000km+ to put money in their pocket. In short, **** 'em!!!

Yes, I'm pissed off with the whole shooting match today!!!!!

Revolver

Talk about a line straight out of Yes Minister!!!

Ok, I'll play. Who is to hold the money in each state? How is it to be divided up? When is the next 'future National event' to be held? Who intends to organise it? Where is it to be held?

Answer some of those and there might be a shred of credibility to your suggestion.

Roxy8

This is ironic. I went on an extended holiday from the club due to the lack of capabilty over solving the issue of interstate Nat rivalry. I'm back again and within a short period its obviously still a major sticking point. Come on guys. This is ruining everyones fun.

Is there any way we can stay focused on finding a venue for a 2008 Nats? Please!

mdr

So you are to blame for all this.

Just kidding of course.

As an outsider cause I didn't own an 8 back then and am new to all this. I do not know who what or where all this came about. But it does appear to be a lot of sour grapes going on.


Guys I don't know what the Nat's are or how they were held or who is a member of what. Not even sure how you set up the Nat's but if some people are willing to bring me up to date with names places what needs to happen who are the contacts and if some one is wiling to give some guidance I am willing to spend some time making some calls and see what can be set up when.

However I am not willing to step into the middle of an interstate pissing match over past transgressions.

If those that want to really have a national get together will throw up their hands and are willing to pull together to make it happen I will help out.
So at this point it looks like the choice is continue to fight or we get down to it and see what can be salvaged for 08.

But I am heading for a well deserved 6 days in Fiji on the 30th so I will be out of pocket for anything during that time.
But Monday tomorrow if you want I will start calling tracks and see what is going.

enforcer

If you read page one of this thread you will see the push from Taka, Dave, MACCA and Timbo for the Nats to be held in Queensland and there was no secret then of surplus monies been held to get things started. On 14/10/07 Hymee, Jambos, xxup, mdr, Ltd and I met at McDonalds in Kallangur to discuss the prospoal. We met again at 7.00pm on 29/11/07 to discuss amongst many things a Nationals membership, and the prospect of the Incorporated Association that was registered for last years Nats to be CAMS Affiliated. We also discussed (on speaker phone) the Morgan Park plan will Bill Campbell and we soon learned of additional complications relating to the licence, and previoulsy unknown additional costs. The only thing ratified at that meeting was confirmation of having very little support from the Raceway and being faced with a lot of unknowns, particulary with costs. Knowing in advance there would be issues posed a risk for not only ourselves, but future National events.

In light of this, we decided to explore the option of holding the event at Queensland Raceway. I spoke with the owner, John Tetley who couldn't bend over backwards enough to offer support, guidance and point us in the direction for potential sponsors and suggestions how to make this a very successful event. The problem....a $5 - $6K price tag. I worked my *** off to attempt to get things together, and as all know by now due to circumstances beyond my contrrol have had to take a back seat on this.

Having just witnessed some of the agro attached to this thread, I'm asking myself that perhaps I'm lucky I didn't go through with it. The only reason why I raised the the idea of the States managing their own funds was because Timbo was asking for an answer on it. I'm now sorry I did because I was not aware of the 2006 and 2007 issues which is obviously the catalyst in this discussion. My position to support a Nats event is still on the table, however for a forum that is supposed to offer support and help towards people and events, all I see here is a bloody interstate shooting match....

mdr

Just to clarify something Trev.

If there was an mdr at that meeting it was someone else. Cause this mdr just bought an 8 in Nov. If there is an mdr already registered here I will happily change me handle.

mdr

What happened with the Norwell option?

enforcer

My apologies Monte...it was Hymee, Jambos and xxup at that meet! I was going to discuss the Norwell option will George Foessel a couple of weeks ago, but due to his own family illness is also under the pump and has to run his own business by himself for a while. As pointed out previously, time is running out, I have sent you a PM with his contact details.

timbo

Trevor, I think you are reacting to some heat that wasn't intended for you.. Nor is this anything about interstate rivalries (except perhaps as a consequence). As I understand it, Hymee and xxup had the key positions in whatever organisation/club was formed to run the 2006 Nats. In the end, that event ended up being run by MACCAA almost single-handed, while revenues went to the 'club' set up by Hymee and xxup. Amid this, some of the proposed items to be supplied to attendees did not happen, with the result that attendees to the 2006 Nats didn't get what they paid for, and the 'club' had a surplus. There were various ideas that the surplus would be (a) returned to the 2006 attendees or (b) used to subsidise the 2007 Nats. In the event, nothing happened, and people who attended the 2006 Nats (and especially MACCAA, who did most of the hard yards) are not unnaturally sh!tty, especially since nothing looks like happening this year (and again, not having a go at you Trev....you stepped forward just as I pushed )

To put it very bluntly, Hymee and xxup: please explain!

MACCAA

Well said Timbo.

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

All,

I hope this helps calm things to a certain extent.

I went out of my way to ensure that the 2006 event happened, instead of being called off as it looked like it was going to be. I didn't want that to happen, and it would have made it harder to get sponsorship etc in the future.

For some reason, unlike Timbo the previous year, I was not able to set up the event without a formal body in place, as I needed to deal with the Council (road closure), public liability insurance ($$$), write cheques, etc, etc, etc. Without a formal body in place, these things were not possible. I also wanted to present an entity to potential sponsors to get some backing - which worked well.

I funded the startup of an incorporated association "Mazda RX-8 Club of Australia (Inc)" to enable this. Perhaps that was a bad move, but it seemed necessary at the time. I couldn't see myself ringing up anyone and saying "I represent a informal bunch chat room guys, and I'd like to ask you if you could help us out by...."

I don't need to carry on about how much time, effort and phone calls went into essentially single handledly organising the whole 2006 event, when at the end of the day I was unable to attend due to shithouse health issues I wouldn't wish on decent people. I even had to cancel a paid for trip to Sevenstock9. I'm eternally greatful to people like Macca and XXUP who took up the slack in my absence. As it was, I recall XXUP leaving BNE with a bunch of cheques I wrote out to pay for all costs, bar some monies owed to Macca for out of pocket expenses. I can understand Macca being annoyed about those, and they were eventually paid with my abject appology.

As for the surplus money, the club account I set up has a current balance of $1,792.48.

What ever happend to the club (incorporated association)? Well, I guess it is still there in the system. The bank account certainly is. If anyone wants to take "it" (the club) on, then feel free - I'm happy to hand over, not that there is really anything to it. Paperwork mainly with state govt.

Is there going to be a 2008 event? I sure hope so. Enforcer cannot organise now due to commitments, which is unfortunate. But as I know myself, **** happens.

I'd rate Morgan Park as a no-go from my point of view. I'd rate QR as a chance, and much better suited to club days. However, now that Lakeside is again operational specifically for club days, I'd suggest we check them out again (owned by QR).

Norwell would be OK I guess as well.

I'd like to offer to take this on, but some of the bad blood evident above really makes me wonder if I am the sort of person to do such a thankless task.

All I can offer is to use the funds still in the clubs account as a deposit for a QR or Lakeside track booking if that is what we wish to do.

Cheers,
Hymee.

mdr

OK guys I made a couple of calls.
Right now Queensland raceway seems to had a tentative date of Oct 4th held for the RX-8 club of Australia. But they were told the cost was prohibitive so it was called off. $12,000 was the cost for a Sat.
However Keith just called me back we can have Lakeside now for 4 hours either on the 4th of Oct or the 11th for $4,000 or $6,000 for 6 hours which is the full day there.
I expressed concern about Lakeside maybe being a little too challenging for a club but Keith said they have run a number of club events there lately with out incident and they have done some upgrades to make it a bit safer.

So thoughts please cause to make this happen it has to decided pretty fast.
Also starting another thread so this all does not get lost in the other stuff going on here.