Gomez

NickG, in another thread, pointed out that the free driving course MA provide to '8 buyers could be upgraded (for a fee) if you had previous course experience.

As a staunch supporter of such courses (done six, two m/cycle courses incl), I thought I'd start a thread to get a discussion going about their merits.

Some think that they encourage people to drive faster, a result of increased confidence gained during the course.

I've found the instructors provided ample examples of the dangers associated with excess speed, and that any possibility of these courses dispensing students with "race faces" was scotched by the photo's/video's/torn leathers displayed and explained.

I have vivid memories of sitting beside John Bowe and frantically suppressing the urge to use the "imaginary brake pedal" at the end of Calder's main straight as he displayed my car's capabilities to me during a High Performance course.

I obviously failed to match his lap times, but I gained much from my hot laps as I repeatedly chickened out trying to use his brake markers....

I came away from the day with cracked brake rotors, and the knowledge that though I thought I was a good driver, professionals inhabit a higher plane, and there was much more to be learned.

I learnt that high speeds belong on the track, under controlled conditions.

The theory classes are eye opening too, tyre p's, weight transference, the physics of cornering, all good stuff.

Record your thought/experiences here....

Gomez.

Blackie

When I had the MX-5 they gave me the free Stage 1 ADC which I happily took up. Then I took up the High Performance Course (Jim Murcott) and after letting some of the instructors drive my car (semi-pros) it does really open your eyes as to what the car is capable of and how much faster it could really go. Since then I have done a few more track days and it's probably the most fun you could have with your clothes on.

I agree with your comments on these courses potentially having a negative effect on our roads. As the increase in the level of confidence far outstrips the increase in the level of ability. But they are enlightening all the same and it all comes down to the maturity of the driver. I use the track days to get the speed out of my system and now drive at a much more responsible level on the road than I did when I was on my Ps.

For these sort of cars, you aren't getting your money's worth if you don't try it out on the track at least once. Braking points, racing lines, throttle control, weight transfer.... all heaven without having to worry about the wayward magna around the blind corner or the pothole that wasn't there last time...

Lock & Load

In 1990 i was in Germany i scored an invite to the porsche factory , i was given the chance to be taken out on the testing racing track by one of the porsch e test drivers in a brand new turbo 911 .

All i want to say this driver must have been tryng to scare the **** out of me because i never pray , but i was praying this time and the scud marks in my pants were new .

Of course when we finally stopped the drive , he asked me in his arrogant German manner as to what i thought .
My reply was yes it was fast and spirited but not as aspiring as being in my friends plane .ha ha ha

cheers
michael

takahashi

I am going to Events ONeil to a track day on 16th April at Sandown... hope it will be fun

NickG

I've only done a couple of courses but the last one - BMW Advanced Driver Training at Eastern Creek - was an absolute blast. Speed on the hot laps was limited to a not unreasonable 180km/hr, and it was nice to be driving their 325i's ( shod with 17" rims and Pirelli P zeros) rather than MINE. Aside from the sheer fun of the high speed laps in the 325's, two things really stand out in my mind:
1. The spectacular increase in emergency stopping distance when speed is lifted from 60 to 70 km/hr - a very sobering thought
2. The day's closout session in which we got a ride ( not a drive- rats!) with the instructor going absolutely BALLISTIC, flat out sideways, in an E46 M3. I was simply gobsmacked....

The earlier course I did years ago at Amaroo, when I had just got my P plates. Another P plater, whose parents had just bought him a brand new first generation Celica, ROLLED the damn thing RIGHT in front of me. How the heck I missed him I'll never know. Amazingly he was compltely unhurt, but the car was a complete write off. I wasn't too popular when I got home either: the absolutely brand new, expensive Klebers on my mum's Audi 80 were more than half shot!........

RRS

I think they definately have merit.

I hold a CAMS national Rally Licence now and go rallying to get my kicks(OK in a gemini, but you can still have a lot of fun! Actually too much fun, and too much money!;D ) and it also improves my car control, and makes me not wanna be the lout I perhaps was on public roads back in the adelaide hills when I was but a few years younger..

I did do a stage one murcott course back in 1997 or so, enjoyed it,learned a lot 'cos I was but a youngster, but was saddened to see I was the only person there of my own volition. Everyone else was there at their companies behest, and some even with ABS equiped cars still couldn't stop properly after an entire days tution... I didn't think it was that hard!!They were terrified of the brake pedal...

When we get the 8, I'll be encouraging my g/f to take the course instead of myself, just to sharpen her skills up a bit. Not that she's terrible, she's the only girl I know who doesn't drive competitively who doesn't panic if it comes to a car getting out of shape when she's driving, and she's probably a bit more perceptive than me it traffic.

I think the main issue is you can teach skills, but road driving is 90% attitude, and there are some people you'll never be able to get through to.. They are the ones that come out of driver training courses with attitudes like our mate Choppy..

Cheers

Rowdy

takahashi

Rowdy... better check if the drive day is trasferrable... I think it does. But the booking form from Mazda listed your name and RX-8 as the model.

Gomez

Rowdy, I remember listening to Jim on the radio 5 or 6 years back extolling the use of left foot braking in an auto....There was some talkback on it at the time, with regards to whether it was dangerous or not to teach the technique to Joe Average.

From that day onwards, I started left foot braking (my XR8 is an auto) and have never looked back.

Your braking reaction times improve, the brake lights come on earlier to signal to those behind, and I found that my driving became so much smoother.....

Even JB commented on it when I was at Calder.

Doesn't matter much on this forum but, we all drive manuals

Gomez.

RIP Jim.

RRS

tak.. i thought as much, but the car is going to be registered in my g/fs business name... she'll be able to go, or I will if it comes to that she's a bit flat out ATM, and I'll pay to upgrade it.

Gomez...I've heard the debate.. I think they improvement in reaction time isn't bad, but what about putting time into avoidance skills-- ie steering away from the thing you might hit, anticipation etc.. probably better that way.. cos the last thing you need is someone getting their feet confused in a panic stop, and nailing both pedals.. it can happen. most people's interest in driving is minimal at best, retraining important skills like that in people who struggle with threshold braking anyway isn't probably the best For those of us who care though.. It's never a bad thing.


If you teach someone LF braking in an auto from day one, they'll never have a problem with it.. My Grandfather couldn't use his right leg to drive (no knee joint) so he left foot accelerated and braked. never bothered him, and he learnt to drive at 60 years of age.

I LF brake in manuals regularly.. or used to when I was out in the hills back in adelaide.. really handy for those corners that sneak up on you, and for quelling understeer..

In our Pug it's helpful sometimes.. but the the footspace is a little cramped, so it doesn't happen much..

In the rally car, it's almost essential as a skill, and it's not that hard to learn if you put in the time.. it's not hard to relearn either.. I haven't been in the rally car for oh 6 months now, and I know it'll take maybe 2 corners to get the feel back on the transport to the 1st stage, and then I'll be fine for the whole event..

That said, when I know I have a really big stop from 140 - 150 down to say 30 or 40 for a hairpin or a narrow side road, I'll generally RF brake and come down through the gears using the clutch and heel- toeing. but if it's a series of flowing corners in 1 gear, I'll LF brake for all of them, and often be on both the brake and the gas at the same time..

I think I need a dog box for the rally car.. Mmm..

Rowds

Gomez

Rowdy, I agree with the comment about avoidance being paramount.....

LF braking in a manual...Hmmmm, must admit I've never tried it.

One of the best things about my '8 is the fact that the 306 made room for it in the drive.......:D :D .

The new owner is happy with it though, horses for courses I s'pose.

Gomez.

RRS

hmm our 306 Gti-6 is going.. We love it, but it's 5 years old, and service costs are mounting up. I drove it twice today, and still love the induction roar above 4 grand, and the handling is great for a hot hatch, but the 8 is soo much more special.

LF is only confusing when you have to swap over to up or downshift with the clutch. it's a bit of a fumble at 1st.. Rally car is good cos the pedals are close, race boots are small, and all I have to worry about is me. no other cars etc..

Cheers

Rowdy

AMG

Left foot braking is also good for manuals, makes cornerig and braking so much smoother.

In the competitive arena smoothness often equates to faster lap times as the car is never unsettled therefore responding to inputs better.

Most race drivers left foot brake.

AMG

I transfered to my G/F name, no issues. They were a bit unorganised as they printed the attendance certificate in my name not hers, but did send out an amended certificate.

AMG

I've been involved in driver training as a student and as an assistant instructor at the local club level. The guts of the courses is not to teach people to drive at high speed, however this opportunity is given for the benefit of the *grin factor*, but to teach people to drive to their own capabilities and to the limitations of their car.

With respect to braking distances and increasing speed the arguments proposed are all well and good, but the cars limitations are important. In one excercise my MX5 (with brake modifications) at 80km/hr out braked a comondore (with ABS) at 60km/hr, and my race car outbraked both at 95km/hr.

I know when driving I have a different approach depending on the car I drive.

End of the day these courses are not about teaching to drive at speed, but to drive within the limitations of yourself and the car you're in charge of.

Competitive driving has allowed me to drive with an inbuilt instinct of alertness, this is why I can claim an accident free driving record.