erx8s

Here is another example of Mazda Stearlerships misdiagnosis

(one has to ask is it being done deliberately ?

https://www.rx8club.com.au/forum/vie...?p=28080#28080

Cheers
Michael

labrat

Given your obvious hatred of the Mazda organization, the myriad of problems you've had with your own RX-8, and the many, many faults you've identified with the car in general, its a wonder you haven't sold yours, moved on, and bought something else. Whatever happened to the Aston Martin you were talking about buying some years ago?

Revolver

Not bad questions Labby but I think we're all better off knowing that some stealerships are going from coil replacement to engine replacement, at the owner's expense.

This issue has the potential to put this model on the nose with the wider public (like the poor name previous rotaries had for reliability) and the more info the better.

erx8s

Its a pity that you are buried in your lab and you dont open your eyes a typicall John Howard type

Properties appreciate Aston martins dont :


Cheers
Michael

takahashi

You consider someone with that IQ and EQ can diagnose thing with a high accuracy ... come on. There is limited good mechanics nowadays.

timbo

While we’re banging on about this, might as well make myself totally unpopular, and defend both the dealer issue and MA’s parts pricing, mainly because I have first-hand experience of the issues they are facing to maintain inventory and a distribution network, and it is all too easy to rack up some significant financial losses in supporting this. I’ll probably get flamed for lecturing, but I’m a resilient bugger!


First, let us remind ourselves that the total Australian market for motor vehicles is only slightly greater than that which exists in the greater Los Angeles/Orange County region of the US. And the economic characteristics of that region (apart from distance) are not too much different.


Secondly, Mazda has sold…what?...c4,500 RX-8s in Australia over 4 yrs (pls correct me if anyone has more accurate data, but I recall it’s around that)…and as this forum shows, they’re everywhere and anywhere. Not much more than Porsche, I dare say.

Thirdly, the RX-8 is a specialist vehicle; especially in the power train, where there are far less parts in common with other petrol engines. On top of that, there are the issues of training mechanics in dealing with this ‘radically’ different engine design.


Now, just for a moment, step around the other side of the table and put yourself in MA’s shoes, and think about (a) how you are going to support the RX-8 in Australia and (b) how you will stock and price spare parts……


….


….worked it out yet?


….


….

Not easy, is it? Especially if your guiding parameter is “do not make a loss, we’re not a charity!” which sits, carved in stone, on your desk.


MA is offering a specialist vehicle in a specialist market. Logic says the buyer pays, even if he/she doesn’t want to. Logic also says, that despite the best endeavours of MA to train dealer staff, skilled people in dealers will be very hard to find, especially in the current economic climate. Just ask any decent service manager how he is getting on finding apprentices. Even rotor specialist mechanics are having problems find good tradespeople.


IMHO, there are many, many good reasons for Mazda service on rotaries to be much, MUCH worse than it is, and for parts prices to be outrageous….but I’ve had some experience with other marques and I conclude that despite the above factors, it’s not too bad. Having had a Range Rover, I can tell you chapter and verse what really **** service is, and having moved to VW from Mazda, I have a bit of a feeling that I am merely out of the frying pan…!


Yes, it could be better…and cheaper. But one significant precondition to that might be more people owning RX-8s and rotaries. As soon as we made the decision to buy the 8, we put ourselves in the firing line

erx8s

Timbo

Mazda should pay you an absurd amount for shouting out their BS next thing you will try and have us believe is that they have actually made a huge loss on selling the 4500 cars and their huge markups on the spare parts is also loosing money .

Cheers
Michael

DMRH

Since mid-203. Mazda have shifted just under 5500 to date.

As for the parts pricing issues. In general......If its a piston powered part from Japan, it usually gets doubled before Mazda Australia sends them off to the Stealership. If its a rotary part, is usually gets tripled or quadrupled before the Stealership gets it.

Been going on for 20+ years as its a "culture" down in head office to offend the rotary powered guys with insulting parts pricing.

I've ordered rotary parts from a Japanese dealer & had them delivered at less than 50% of the price compared to AUstralian parts.

So its not the general markup from Japan thats the offensive part, its the fact that many rotary specific parts get marked up at a greater rate than their piston counterparts.

REgards

rexi888

Wonder how many engines have been misdiagnosed as stuffed by Mazda, with the real culprit being coil failure? This is starting to become a reoccurring theme.

As a precaution I ordered a new set of coils from my mates at onlinemazdaparts last night for a grand total of $140 AU. Should be here next week.

Regards
Rexi

erx8s

I hate to think of all the non Forum owners out there who have been fleeced and charged for a new engine when merely fixing the coils was all that was required .

Rexi glad you have purchased your coils from Jason , hes had 8 orders from Australia in the last few weeks guess i have started an avalanche .

Cheers
Michael

timbo

Thanks for the numbers sold update -- didn't think they'd hit 5,000 yet

I think the rest of your post in fact supports what I wrote. The pricing of parts in Japan or the US is absolutely irrelevant to the price you will pay at a dealer in Australia...and this is not just Mazda, nor is it just about cars. It is about the size and geography of the Australian market.

As I said, if anyone thinks they can set up a spares and service network for a specialised product -- any product -- in Australia, still only charge the same prices as in the US or Japan or wherever the product is sourced, and make a buck then please, please tell me the secret!

Michael, as I've said before -- on a clear night I can hear the whine from here. Your very first post on this forum all those years ago was...guess what... a whinge, and you've remained constant to your character ever since

rexi888

If Michael is having a winge on this subject , he has a bloody good right to in my opinion.

Trying to justify the outrageous pricing from Mazda Australia ie charging at least 4 times the cost of coils relative to the USA is just BS in my opinion . Must be that Im just a winger also

Regards
Rexi

rexi888

Sorry. winger is meant to be whinger.

Rexi

auzoom

I mentioned something similar a few weeks agi about the dealer whining in general. No one disagrees they hate the fact we pay exorbedant amounts compared the rest of the world, but as you have found, it can be gotten cheaper. Let keep it focused on helping people find these parts for cheaper and not a constant, whinge fest.

On the topic at hand, I am waiting for a certain someone to chime in here but I know of another person who managed to get an engine replaced under warranty after engine lights, and various other symptoms. Recently that person started to see the same symptoms again. After a coil change all appears to be resolved.

Revolver

There's a lot in what Timbo says re: pricing of spares and the difficulty finding service people, etc, etc. They're all good reasons why Australia misses out on other specialist models - the manufacturers just can't afford the aftersales support.

However, my main beef is the owner having to pay for this at all. I'm sorry, but I don't accept we're talking about the odd isolated fault here. Yes these forums tend to magnify negatives but we've seen too many people claiming coil/plug problems for this to be a mere random issue affecting only a tiny number of owners. Secondly, I also don't accept that a so-called performance car should be chewing through plugs and coils at relatively low mileages. Maybe we've been spoiled by the longevity and reliability of modern cars in general and should accept that with rotaries you have to suffer this sort of thing. If so, pardon me while I get off the rotary express and go find something that has been developed to do the job it is intended for without having to fork over large amounts of cash to keep the damn thing running.

At least we've all learnt to buy some spare ignition components from the US and keep them handy if/when the OEM parts decide to lunch themselves.

erx8s

Timbo

I am proud in that i have constantly made Forum members and others aware of the BS that we have had to put up from MAZDA and consistently pointed out the many quirks of this car, lots of members have PM me and thanked me for saving them money and helping them to keep their cars on the road at a more reasonable cost

You may see it as whinging , i see it as speaking out for a fair go , not all of us like being taken advantage of and bending over as much as you and Labrat


Cheers
Michael

LittleJohn

Timbo,
While there is some merit in the points you listed above, we are no longer living in the 80s for 90s even.
Commerce has progressed significantly since those days and it now a Global Economy. Where anyone and just about everyone can shop halfway around the world more easily than they can shop locally.
While the points you mention about other marques are true, it only serves to highlight how far the auto industry is behind current trading practices.
More savvy consumers will no longer tolerate 200% plus markups and sub optimal service just because they live in a less densely populated area.
I do have first hand experience with how much markup the Australian consumers are forced to endure, in several "specialist" areas.
One example is photography. All things considered such as exchange rates and all, a typical Nikon DLSR used to be anywhere from 50% - 100% more expensive locally vs a grey market import to your door.
Nikon has since realised this and taken over the local distributorship and the local price vs grey import difference are almost negliable. This was largely due to the internet and forums like this.
But i'm going OT..

My point is that, if we as consumers do not start putting pressure on the dealerships and let them know their markup is too high and their service is substandard, how are we to ever get treated fairly.

There is NEVER any reason for bad service. I like to believe that if something is worth doing, then it's worth 100% or... no less than 90%

If Mazda Dealerships can't service or support a product properly, then they shouldn't do it at all.. They are welcome to send it off to a specialist, but don't assign the job to a mechanic who's only ever heard about rotaries at TAFE midway through Combustion Engines 101


just my rant..

LJ

mikeyr

Ohh, I missed this one! I must admit, i do have some knowledge of supply chain (grocery and FMCG but still...) and i suspect that Mazda Aus could do with a rethink. I lost the power buttons from my electric seat (long and stupid story). However was quoted by Mazda here about $70 and $90 for the parts respectively.

They show in OnlineMP at about $7 & $11!

If it's not gouging and it really reflects a reasonable dealer margin then their parts system is incredibly inefficient. Absurdly so.

Mazda did have in stock in Melbourne.....why i ask??? Given airfreight out of a Japanese DC would mean a consolidated parts order into Aus could be here in a couple of days.

I understand our market is small but frankly not that small, the parts are compatible with many regional countries so the regional pool is a viable concept.

Slightly OT but I'm really disappointed that Nissan are thinking of bringing the new Skyline to Aus. The price being bandied about is $150k vs Japan of $78k.
Being a local delivery will mean we can't direct import a second hand one in a couple of years for $50k!

Bollocks!

M

auzoom

Some quick math, we have 5500 cars in the country. We have lets say 100 active members .. lets say another 300 registered but not active/posting. Thats less that 10% of owners here. Lets assume that another 10% of owners are aware they can source parts overseas. Thats 80% left who are paying the overly inflated prices. I dont think Mazda cars about you brining in 4 coils at a time.

The issue is at this point that Mazda have a monopoly. They are the only people allowed to import Mazda parts from Mazda Japan.

I wonder if we have an abuse of monopoly here?

LittleJohn

I thought about this response this afternoon and noted that there were several others from various members echoing similar sentiments.

Do you guys think that if by repeating himself over and over and over again, he saves one forum member or even a new visitor a hundred dollars let alone several hundreds possibly thousands.? Then the repetition is worth it??

Personally this persistence / repetition saved me $450+
Thanks Michael, I think I owe you a few beers when you're in Sydney next.. :p

With the lack lustre technical knowledge inhouse combined with the above average labour costs, I am suspicious that the markup is mostly at the dealership.. Seems to correlate with there "mission statement." Do less, charge more

timbo

Actually you have hit it in one, Mikey. The truth is that to have availability and any reasonable supply chain for spares in Australia for any low volume, imported consumer durable, you are facing an incredibly inefficient system as fact. Everyone would like it another way, but the only way that can occur is to shift the stock-holding offshore, in which case you will have to deal with a response from your dealer as something like "We can have that part here in 4 working days and it will cost you $20 for the part and $50 for the airfreight." Still not happy, Jan.

I'm not defending the system, just explaining it and as I've said, if you think of a solution you can put into practice, get to it -- you'll make a motza

mikeyr

Timbo, mate, I'd actually pay 70 bucks, i'm over it, but we are talking $160, a ferkin monkey could build a better system!

I think you are defending the indefensible, my opinion only however. See other notes on coils. $150 vs US$25??

And as to designing a system, thing is, if you control the source and it's 100% unique, no way you ever let a scale competitor in? You figure out how we get Mazda to sell to us FOB japan and we are in business!

Revolver

What Mikey said.

erx8s

Timbo

The Mazda Defender of the indefensible (nice one Mikeyr ) the self appointed previous ........................ poverty pack RX8 owner Spin Doctor

No wonder they say laughter is the best medicine


Cheers
Michael

timbo

Just to clarify, the values were just examples, not any specific part and especially not coils

And, if you can do better, don't waste time posting here, do it!