NickG

Wheels current issue pits the 8 against an HSV Commmodore and the latest Evo . The 8 gets 41/2 stars as does the Evo, but the text strongly favours the Evo which takes out the comparo. Wheels makes a few negative comments about the 8 this time around including reservations about the rear suspension's behaviour over lateral ruts and mid corner bumps, and unsurprisingly the mid range power deficit relative to these "torquemeister" opponents.
The review left me wondering whther the 8 can realistically be compared with these cars at all. Its unique balance of strengths is so dramatically different - especially to the HSV - that I can't imagine anyone who is seriously attracted to the specific abilities of the Commodore or even the Evo being completely happy with it. What do you reckon? I know we have a few ex hot Commodore drivers on this forum spam curious how you coped with the transition. How does a tail sliding torque fiend come to terms with a light and agile high rev car like the 8?

Pagey-RX8

I read this yesterday. Other than the fact that all 3 cars have 4 doors, there is really nothing to compare.

Looks like a EVO sponsered review for the new EVOVIII without the new WRX-STI available for comparision.

Reviews on completely different cars are a waste of magazine space.

Lock & Load

Having read the latest Wheels article, I dont believe the cars in question are a good comparison, but I feel the article was fair and not biased to any one car.

Weaknesses of the RX8
1) Over a 1100km trip fuel consumption. The RX8 very nearly equalled the 5.7L HSV consumption (RX8 - 13.3 Litres/100 km) VS 13.6 Litres/100 km on the HSV (well we all know the rotary loves a drink!).

2) Weak torque in uphill and low end power. Unfortunately, yes its' true but once again not new news to the RX8 owners.

3) The handling hoodoo of the rear axles tendency to stagger on mid corner bumps. I have observed this a number of times when going at above average speeds. The rear of the car tends to hop or jump, especially if the surface of the road is irregular and bumpy. I have always looked upon this as a challenge to my driving and handling of the car more than a serious negative effect (Would putting on a rear sway bar hinder or aid the rear axle bumps?).

Comparing a 1.3 L Naturally Aspirated rotary engine to a 5.7 L V8 and a 2.0L turbocharged mortar is not, in my opinion, makes the best of comparisons.

Cheers
Michael

dracoMJB

I haven't seen my subscription copy of wheels (haven't checked the PO Box for a while), what price the HSV and EVO? Looking at the cover image on the Wheels website (what a load of crap that website is, but anyway...) it looks like they're comparing 3 similarly priced "sports" vehicles.

A lot of people work out what they want (sports, family, 4wd) work out a budget and see what's in that price range. Or they look at a price range and see what's there. You would find someone with that kind of money looking for a sports car will see these 3 models and investigate. Wheels obviously prefer the EVO from what has been posted, but that is likely to be a purely objective view. If we drove the same 3 cars we may decide that in our opinion the RX-8 is better, but without driving all 3 for the same length of time there isn't much chance of getting as good a perspective as we have on the RX-8 having driven it for a relatively long time.

Gomez

Somewhere here is a thread where many of us posted a list of the the cars we drove prior to our purchase of the 8. My list had a heap of V8's and quite a few too many Magna's.......no previous Mazda ownership, let alone rotary experience. I'd never even sat in a rotary powered car before I went into the showroom. The coming to terms with the rotary engines power delivery was instant for me. I had a Jesus moment on the test drive.

The combination of a lighter than usual chassis with more power than a small V8 sitting on 4 wheels that actually take the car where you intend it to go.....what more could you want? Decent build quality, tick......reasonable price, tick..........style, tick.........etc, etc, etc. The car has it all, that's why Wheels made it COTY.

Regards, Gomez.

dracoMJB

Let's also remember, that while the CotY is a very prestigous award, it is really only a comparison of new models in a given year and covers a lot more criteria than a normal review. I'm more surprised that I head the RX-8 was beaten by a 350Z in a Herald Sun sports car rating last week. I was in Sydney at the time so didn't get a chance to actually read it. I've never read a review where the 350Z beat an RX-8 in any category

NickG

L&L like you I've never found the slight rear skittishnesh under mid corner bumps a significant problem. I reckon a rear sway bar on its own would only increase this by reducing suspension compliance and also stuff up the lovely front/rear balance which IMHO is wonderfully judged at present. I do however find the car is susceptible to crashing around on minor road irregularities, especially lateral bumps like concrete road joining strips. These seem to create quite a "whack" through the body structure which has me wondering how rattle-free the 8 will be after 70,000km plus. I find myself steering around minor potholes etc more often than not. These low speed minor bump issues seem at odds with the car's terrific suppleness over larger bumps, and they are one reason I'm not keen on shifting to lower profile tyres when it comes time to change.

Gomez you're right there were plenty of ex V8 RX-8 owners and I find this a little intriguing. For me coming from a 325i which also had little low down torque but a great free revving engine, superb ride/ handling compromise and chassis balance, the transition was easy. I love the 8 to bits but still miss a few things about the Bimmer including its incredibly solid rattle free feel, fantastic build quality and better low speed ride isolation. There is a Bimmer that provides all this plus the additional action/excitment and character of the RX-8. But it's called an M3 and costs twice as much. By any standards the 8 offers fabulous value for what it offers and that's why I'm proud to drive one. Even if it isn't as fast as an Evo!

Lock & Load

NICKG

Thanks for your reply to my question , if i do put on the sway bar it would be on the front and rear , i agree with you that the car s handling would be definetely be altered for the worse with only the rear sway bar .

Even though the RX8 is not perfect it was the nearest to perfection on all qualities i was looking for whithout costing an arm and a leg .

cheers
michael

NickG

Be careful L&L. I defer to the much better experience of some on this Forum but many moons ago I did the same to my warmed over Golf. With decent wheels and tyres fitted it had great FWD handling balance - mild understeer transitioning to mild lift-off oversteer- and a reasonable ride. However there was a little too much body roll for my taste. I fitted stiffer sway bars front and rear. The result: the ride became crashy, the back end- which formerly stuck well - became skittish and hopped over bumps. In the wet the lift off oversteer -which was previously fun (because it was controllable)- became such a handful that I spun the thing in the first week. After a couple of months I got so sick of it I removed the sway bars and restored the factory fit.
Moral of the story ( I think) - if a car's handling is basically well sorted to start with, think very very carefully before you tinker around with it, and be very careful about who you choose to do the work. Also think carefully about how you use your car. If the "improvements" will only benefit you 5% of the time, and will actually detract from enjoyment of the car the other 95%, are they really worth having?
I know this won't sit well with those that just HAVE to reduce ride height, fit 20" wheels with 35 series tyres, insert super firm dampers and heavy duty swaybars etc. If I spent half my time on track days I might be tempted by some, or maybe even all, of these. But for ROAD use in Australia - even very demanding roads - with a well-sorted car like the RX-8 which has very high limits to start with , I really don't see a lot of point. Even if the mods work perfectly, the best that can be achieved is to lift the car's limits to a higher level which is even less accessible on public roads with the heavy police presence we have in this country.

takahashi

I agree totally Nick,

RX-8 is a well sorted car thoughout in the chassis department. My first disappointment is into it slight softness and sway when cornering. After adding the sway and strut bars front and rear. I love the car and get back what I had before (Integra DC 2) minus the harshes in comfort.

Next step is suspension - but have to be careful as you say - so a on dash adjustment with EDFC and severe testing on the track or ranges is require to get the balance. Love to get one and test it out - it is only boring to add a turbocharge and let the mechanics to make the car fast. You should set up your suspension and make it fast that way

Lock & Load

NickG

I totally agree with your philoshopy re altering the standard factory set ups , i even got my eldest son to read your excellent post as he and his friends are all into changing things for the sake of it whitout giving a thought about the implications to the car .

Some of the forum members have put on aftermarketfront and rear sway bars and as far as i know the results have been positive .

cheers
michael

takahashi

That is why so many of us is discussing how to change it Michael. All trail and error and much to learn. It is just "rice" to change without researching it

Lock & Load

Guys found another negative statement regarding the RX8 MANUAL speed box???

Whats your opinion on this .

"The Mazda's six-slot 'box has the best shift action of this bunch, being lighter, shorter and quicker than the Mitsubishi's firm five-speed, but electronics get in the way of cog-swapping pleasure. Upshifts are marred by an artificial throttle over-run and a slurred shunting from the rear axle. Throughout, the throttle seems to be connected by a rubber band, again detracting from the otherwise light-footed feel."

Could someone shed some light on this statement in layman terms?

Cheers
Michael

NickG

Yup I think it's the starting point that makes the big difference. If you drive a Camry or any other base family sedan ( no offense to Camry drivers - it's just the car that sucks :D ) there's a very high probability that fitting stiffer sway bars, increasing the spring and/or damper rates and lowering tyre aspect ratio is going to give you vastly superior handling and a more pleasing drive. If you start with a car that is already well sorted and optimised for performance driving the task is much more difficult, and there is a higher possibility that the gains you achieve in some areas will be offset by losses in others.

Taka coming from a DC2 I can well understand why you crave flatter handling and could accept a much firmer ride. By definition your bum must be totally numb by now anyway! :D :D The last DC something I rode in felt very similar. Only you had to climb underneath the passenger compartment to get in and it was on a dirt runway in Africa.

NickG

L&L I was kinda perplexed by those comments too. I've experienced a few cars with lousy throttle overrun (early IS200 Lexus' were absolutely woeful in this regard), but the RX8 isn't one of them . I find the RX-8 throttle response - especially on light openings - is just excellent. It's a major factor contributing to the lively and spritely feel of the car, and also goes some way to "masking" the torque deficiency IMO. Honda were also onto this sort of stuff very early in the piece ( as Taka will no doubt vouch for), but it's a trick quite a few manufacturers - including even some prestigious ones like Mercedes - still seem unable to contrive. What Wheels is going on about I haven't got the faintest idea....

emack

Come on Lock, you've driven my car and remember Wakefield! Sway bars front and rear and coilovers and you take a sweet handling machine and turn it into a awesome handling machine! :D

takahashi

Taka agrees with NickG.

I think they are trying to blame on the DSC but failed to realise the signs are not there.

It is the same thing they talked about S2000s electric steering when it came out - the artificial feel . Now every manufacturer has it in their sport cars, Wheels has shut up totally. Artificial my *** ...

The new SLK should be throttle responsive - some secret agent told me

Lock & Load

You are right on it was awesome to drive with the sway bars, and coilovers , but you have also had yours lowered and set up by Rick shaw , that could be the difference in the correct adjustments to your ride .

cheers
michael

takahashi

WOooooooo hang on mate!

Rick shaw can show you some initial setting. In fact, all coilover will. At the end of the day, you DO NOT want Ric's setting, HKS's setting, or Tein's setting. You want L&L setting for your own style of driving, right Michael? Don't plain follow other people, you are a step away from the "rice" territories

emack

................I watched Ric race 2 weekends ago at Eastern Creek in the GTP class, he cleaned up in both races and is now running 3rd in the championship. With all due respect Taka, I DO want his settings.....Ric KNOWS HIS ****!!!!!!!!!!

takahashi

I am not saying he is not good. I will say he will kick my *** my time.

BUT my main point was.....

YOU ARE NOT HIM! :D

Test your own settings and be yourself. Ruben does not use the same set up as Schme's. 50% of the time they use different tyres. I rest my case.

emack

Your analagy is lost on this situation, you compare two F1 drivers.....................I am not a racer and know nothing about setting up cars. What i do know is the quantum leap in handling after Ric set it up............just ask Lock! I take you point Taka, but when you have an opportunity to save yourself possibly 12 months of trial and error by having an expert set something up for you, I think the choice is a no brainer..............I just don't understand how "rice" comes into it?

takahashi

.......

ok. I also take your point.

I like all the fun to myself that is all. And set up myself with other's input. I will go to Matt Coleman (2002 Porsche cup winner) for advice and his thought of the car. At the end, he is my only respectable tutor so far.

I am going to play with the car for years... if I do everything in one bang. I will sell the car after 6 months I have done it up. No fun!

emack

Agree with you on that Taka................

takahashi

Finally :D

Maybe I should do my own and write down the parameters and compare with your note.. by the way do you know your spring rate in your car?