canzoomer's latest thread on increasing power.
10-26-2003, 03:52 AM
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canzoomer's latest thread on increasing power.
Here is what canzoomer has said in the tech garage sectionn of the forum.
Sorry, I was away a couple of days at the beginning of this week, and then had to deal with my engine problem on the way home.
Add to that a tooth problem last weekend, and this has been a bit of a stressful week.
I am now sitting here with a decent glass of bordeaux, and life is *MUCH* better!
1) Aftermarket exhaust breaks down to 2 categories:
A] Cat-back. Might help a bit in reducing restriction.
To do so will be louder. As stock maps for fuel are overly rich at rpm over 6,000 this will likely increase airflow, and gain a bit of power by leaning the mixture. The gains to be made are similar with stock maps or modified. Flow is flow. It adds HP, unless you are running too lean, which is not what will happen in either case, at the top end. It might make it a bit hooter with stock ECU maps as Mazda has set this a bit lean to start with.
B) Mid-pipe. This is where the big gains are to be had. The RX-8 uses fairly large cats, so small flow gains are there by going to a straight-thru midpipe. Much more gain is to be had as you can then run fuel maps that are leaner, and ignition timing that is more aggressive. With cats we can only do so much, as the exhaust temperature rises with power output. Beyond 1750F you will vaporize the catalyst coatings on the cat bricks.
Stok the engine peaks around 1600F. But we have seen the temps rise pretty quick as we add ignition advance.
By removing them you can run more aggressive tuning without this risk.
The trade-off is that you will make more emmissions, and will be illegal in most jurisdictions for road use.
If you want to do this ONLY in off-road(track) use, then it is permissable and recommended. Removing and replacing the mid-pipe is a 10 minute job.
However in doing so you are removing the O2 sensors, so the O2 feedback to the ECU is then in open-loop mode, and you have to add feedback to the ECU to fool it into believing that the O2 readings are OK, and that costs money as it is more logic.
Hence the added costs of our stage 2 and stage 3 tune options.
The stage 2 also includes the ignition mapping control, so is a more extensive component and map device.
This is really aimed at a track application. I am not the thought police, so you can run this on the street if you wish, but I would prefer that you did not.
As for trade-ins we have decided that this is something we will do. There will always be much more demenad for the Stage1 kit, so we will end up re-packaging trade-ins and selling them as used and re-certified at a discount. There will be a trade-in cost of around 50% to cover the discount and costs. We have to test the returned units, clean up anything that is damaged or messed up, and re-package them.
As Stage2 REQUIRES 91 octane or better, and voids ANY warranty and emmisions we WILL require the purchaser to sign a disclaimer form.
87 octane is perfectly safe on a stock RX-8.
To use our Stage1 kit we require that you use at least 89 octane fuel. We have tested with 89 at 3,000 feet altitude and it will not make for knock.
On 87 there would be definite risk of pre-ignition knock. With stock apex seals that could possibly kill your engine.
To take the FC out of the car for emmissions tests you have 2 choices:
1) remove the unit ( a 15 minute job)
2) One may optionally wire in a defeat switch. This requires wiring and a switch that we are not including, but we will include instructions. A 4 pole, double throw switch is required.
Switching must be done with the car turned off, or you will trigger an ECU check engine event, and this will be detectable by dealer diagnostics.
Once switched you need to let the car idle for 5 minutes, and to run gently for another 10 to allow the engine ECU to "re-train".
Generally it is simpler to unplug the unit.
One MUST remove the unit for dealer service, or you risk them voiding your warranty if they find it.
Forced air induction by turbo or supercharger requres tuning maps that can deal with intake positive pressure. A non-FI setup is only zero or negative pressure mapped. It is an ENTIRELY different condition. Running FI with no appropriate map would be suicide for the engine and make limited power gains.
More air in requires more fuel.
In some cars you have to upgrade the fuel injection equipment for more flow capacity, but i do not think this is necessary on the RX-8.
Based on our testing, running boost with no proper positive pressure tuning is going to risk killing your engine and cause constant check engine status. I am confident that anyone who makes a boost kit and is competent will have to include fuel/air control to deal with this requirement. We hope to offer this in our kit options so the vendors for chargers don't have to.
We also are recommending that the engine be rebuilt with ceramic apex seals. Further we advise using re-machined rotors to reduce the compressionratio to 9.2:1 or lower. Any other actions will likely result in severely limited seal and engine life.
This is a 10:1 compression engine. Even 4 pounds of boost may be bad if run on stock seals.
If you look at the 2nd gen and 3rd gen RX-7's the boosted models had lower compression ratios.
High flow cats are not too expensive as you mentioned, but they are not "magic".
They use coatings which can only take heat up to around 1750 degrees.
If you run aggresively re-mapped ignition AND fuel maps, it is NOT a legal street tune. Don't do this unless you are COMPLETELY sure about what you are getting into.
One good run of WOT through the gears will produce 1800F exhaust temps. A few of these and your cats have no coating left. They then become expensive non-efficient resonators.
Only by keeping the temps below 1700 can we reliably know that they will still be working.
If Mazda does release a flash to update the ECUs I can not see any reason why they would limit to one group of cars over another. I think their biggest obstacle is self-created. To do a new ECU map they have to comeup with a consistent and credible reason. Doing this only for power reasons would contradict what they have said.
Fuel economy may be an alternative.
Anyway, for now we are setting the first target for releasing a device with fuel/air maps to produce roughly a 25HP gain, to preserve the cats, and to help on mileage if you drive aggressively.
Once that is done we will return to the direction of ignition timing as well. Starting with a non-cat midpipe we willwork on a kit with timing plus fuel control, and with O2 sensor simulation to keep the ECU happy.
I had said i was interested in working on a supercharger kit before, but after looking that over, we can certainly do it, BUT:
1) It is not a cheap project. Probably around a $30K investment.
2) If others are doing it as well , that is a stupid move for us to make.
3) I do not want to experiment with boost on the engine at 10:1.
I hope to get re-machined rotors at 9.2:1 or so before I try this. I also want ceramic apex seals. Perhaps I am being overly cautious, and maybe this is not necessary, but I would hate to find out the hard way. I am already becoming the leader in broken parts. Sure that is the price you pay, but I don't enjoy doing it if it is not needed!
4) As it is now I know of 5 parties working on releasing an RX-8 kit for turbocharging or supercharging. I would much rather work with the results of their work, add our tuning to this, and Adams machining and parts, and make these into reliable mods.
Finally, thanks for the kind words. As for the "Rock" part, well, I am 47 years old, and this is a hobby. I am having a hell of a good time doing this, and I appreciate that some of you are looking forward to it.
As I said a while ago, when I decided to keep the car, it is a great machine, and if I have to spend a few thousand dollars to make it what I want, and enjoy myself on the way there, I think that is just fine, thank you.
In hard cash, even if I DID blow an engine and had to pay for it I would still be at less expense than if I had bought a 350Z Track Pack, and about $5K below buying an A4 or TT. And $25K below a 'vette.
That is not too bad, because this is a cooler car than any of those.
Sorry, I was away a couple of days at the beginning of this week, and then had to deal with my engine problem on the way home.
Add to that a tooth problem last weekend, and this has been a bit of a stressful week.
I am now sitting here with a decent glass of bordeaux, and life is *MUCH* better!
1) Aftermarket exhaust breaks down to 2 categories:
A] Cat-back. Might help a bit in reducing restriction.
To do so will be louder. As stock maps for fuel are overly rich at rpm over 6,000 this will likely increase airflow, and gain a bit of power by leaning the mixture. The gains to be made are similar with stock maps or modified. Flow is flow. It adds HP, unless you are running too lean, which is not what will happen in either case, at the top end. It might make it a bit hooter with stock ECU maps as Mazda has set this a bit lean to start with.
B) Mid-pipe. This is where the big gains are to be had. The RX-8 uses fairly large cats, so small flow gains are there by going to a straight-thru midpipe. Much more gain is to be had as you can then run fuel maps that are leaner, and ignition timing that is more aggressive. With cats we can only do so much, as the exhaust temperature rises with power output. Beyond 1750F you will vaporize the catalyst coatings on the cat bricks.
Stok the engine peaks around 1600F. But we have seen the temps rise pretty quick as we add ignition advance.
By removing them you can run more aggressive tuning without this risk.
The trade-off is that you will make more emmissions, and will be illegal in most jurisdictions for road use.
If you want to do this ONLY in off-road(track) use, then it is permissable and recommended. Removing and replacing the mid-pipe is a 10 minute job.
However in doing so you are removing the O2 sensors, so the O2 feedback to the ECU is then in open-loop mode, and you have to add feedback to the ECU to fool it into believing that the O2 readings are OK, and that costs money as it is more logic.
Hence the added costs of our stage 2 and stage 3 tune options.
The stage 2 also includes the ignition mapping control, so is a more extensive component and map device.
This is really aimed at a track application. I am not the thought police, so you can run this on the street if you wish, but I would prefer that you did not.
As for trade-ins we have decided that this is something we will do. There will always be much more demenad for the Stage1 kit, so we will end up re-packaging trade-ins and selling them as used and re-certified at a discount. There will be a trade-in cost of around 50% to cover the discount and costs. We have to test the returned units, clean up anything that is damaged or messed up, and re-package them.
As Stage2 REQUIRES 91 octane or better, and voids ANY warranty and emmisions we WILL require the purchaser to sign a disclaimer form.
87 octane is perfectly safe on a stock RX-8.
To use our Stage1 kit we require that you use at least 89 octane fuel. We have tested with 89 at 3,000 feet altitude and it will not make for knock.
On 87 there would be definite risk of pre-ignition knock. With stock apex seals that could possibly kill your engine.
To take the FC out of the car for emmissions tests you have 2 choices:
1) remove the unit ( a 15 minute job)
2) One may optionally wire in a defeat switch. This requires wiring and a switch that we are not including, but we will include instructions. A 4 pole, double throw switch is required.
Switching must be done with the car turned off, or you will trigger an ECU check engine event, and this will be detectable by dealer diagnostics.
Once switched you need to let the car idle for 5 minutes, and to run gently for another 10 to allow the engine ECU to "re-train".
Generally it is simpler to unplug the unit.
One MUST remove the unit for dealer service, or you risk them voiding your warranty if they find it.
Forced air induction by turbo or supercharger requres tuning maps that can deal with intake positive pressure. A non-FI setup is only zero or negative pressure mapped. It is an ENTIRELY different condition. Running FI with no appropriate map would be suicide for the engine and make limited power gains.
More air in requires more fuel.
In some cars you have to upgrade the fuel injection equipment for more flow capacity, but i do not think this is necessary on the RX-8.
Based on our testing, running boost with no proper positive pressure tuning is going to risk killing your engine and cause constant check engine status. I am confident that anyone who makes a boost kit and is competent will have to include fuel/air control to deal with this requirement. We hope to offer this in our kit options so the vendors for chargers don't have to.
We also are recommending that the engine be rebuilt with ceramic apex seals. Further we advise using re-machined rotors to reduce the compressionratio to 9.2:1 or lower. Any other actions will likely result in severely limited seal and engine life.
This is a 10:1 compression engine. Even 4 pounds of boost may be bad if run on stock seals.
If you look at the 2nd gen and 3rd gen RX-7's the boosted models had lower compression ratios.
High flow cats are not too expensive as you mentioned, but they are not "magic".
They use coatings which can only take heat up to around 1750 degrees.
If you run aggresively re-mapped ignition AND fuel maps, it is NOT a legal street tune. Don't do this unless you are COMPLETELY sure about what you are getting into.
One good run of WOT through the gears will produce 1800F exhaust temps. A few of these and your cats have no coating left. They then become expensive non-efficient resonators.
Only by keeping the temps below 1700 can we reliably know that they will still be working.
If Mazda does release a flash to update the ECUs I can not see any reason why they would limit to one group of cars over another. I think their biggest obstacle is self-created. To do a new ECU map they have to comeup with a consistent and credible reason. Doing this only for power reasons would contradict what they have said.
Fuel economy may be an alternative.
Anyway, for now we are setting the first target for releasing a device with fuel/air maps to produce roughly a 25HP gain, to preserve the cats, and to help on mileage if you drive aggressively.
Once that is done we will return to the direction of ignition timing as well. Starting with a non-cat midpipe we willwork on a kit with timing plus fuel control, and with O2 sensor simulation to keep the ECU happy.
I had said i was interested in working on a supercharger kit before, but after looking that over, we can certainly do it, BUT:
1) It is not a cheap project. Probably around a $30K investment.
2) If others are doing it as well , that is a stupid move for us to make.
3) I do not want to experiment with boost on the engine at 10:1.
I hope to get re-machined rotors at 9.2:1 or so before I try this. I also want ceramic apex seals. Perhaps I am being overly cautious, and maybe this is not necessary, but I would hate to find out the hard way. I am already becoming the leader in broken parts. Sure that is the price you pay, but I don't enjoy doing it if it is not needed!
4) As it is now I know of 5 parties working on releasing an RX-8 kit for turbocharging or supercharging. I would much rather work with the results of their work, add our tuning to this, and Adams machining and parts, and make these into reliable mods.
Finally, thanks for the kind words. As for the "Rock" part, well, I am 47 years old, and this is a hobby. I am having a hell of a good time doing this, and I appreciate that some of you are looking forward to it.
As I said a while ago, when I decided to keep the car, it is a great machine, and if I have to spend a few thousand dollars to make it what I want, and enjoy myself on the way there, I think that is just fine, thank you.
In hard cash, even if I DID blow an engine and had to pay for it I would still be at less expense than if I had bought a 350Z Track Pack, and about $5K below buying an A4 or TT. And $25K below a 'vette.
That is not too bad, because this is a cooler car than any of those.
10-26-2003, 03:58 AM
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GORD96BRG started the tech garge thread above and it is called Official word from Mazda on dyno'ing RX-8. It consists of 23 pages about increasing power on the RX8. The post above this reply is the latest one.
10-26-2003, 07:29 AM
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Thanks Lock & Load. I'm following this one too, although I cheated a bit and started reading that thread at page 20!
Canzoomers words confirm my experiment about 6 weeks ago that regular unleaded (91RON, 87 octane) is perfectly safe for the stock engine. I'm back on premium at the moment, but I might get curious and give it another go some time.
Not that I'm hijacking the thread.... just my observation from the words above.
Canzoomers words confirm my experiment about 6 weeks ago that regular unleaded (91RON, 87 octane) is perfectly safe for the stock engine. I'm back on premium at the moment, but I might get curious and give it another go some time.
Not that I'm hijacking the thread.... just my observation from the words above.
10-26-2003, 02:25 PM
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DGW
Having followed canzoomers treads this guy is a real asset to the forum his testing and information is tops .
I cant wait till i get hold of his stage 1 kit that he is putting together 25hp = 17.5 EXTRA KW OF POWER FOR A REASONABLE $1200 APROX SEEMS VERY REASONABLE.
Yeah it was canzoomers car that had the engine problem not mine, bit glad to see you are on the right track.
Having followed canzoomers treads this guy is a real asset to the forum his testing and information is tops .
I cant wait till i get hold of his stage 1 kit that he is putting together 25hp = 17.5 EXTRA KW OF POWER FOR A REASONABLE $1200 APROX SEEMS VERY REASONABLE.
Yeah it was canzoomers car that had the engine problem not mine, bit glad to see you are on the right track.
10-27-2003, 07:02 AM
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L&L,
The stage 1 kit does sound promising. Ever since I got the '8 I've been leaning down the SC path, but me thinks that 25hp here plus maybe a bit more from a new exhaust might just be enough to keep me satisfied in the "more power" department.
FI aint no small thing and it sounds like there is going to be even more to it than first met the eye.
BTW I'm soooo close to ordering the Borla exhaust at the moment....
DGW
The stage 1 kit does sound promising. Ever since I got the '8 I've been leaning down the SC path, but me thinks that 25hp here plus maybe a bit more from a new exhaust might just be enough to keep me satisfied in the "more power" department.
FI aint no small thing and it sounds like there is going to be even more to it than first met the eye.
BTW I'm soooo close to ordering the Borla exhaust at the moment....
DGW
10-27-2003, 07:17 AM
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To tell you the truth, I'd rather buy a microtech system and run fuel/ignition with it that way I can tune it and re-tune it as needed. It may even be cheaper than the 25HP gain canzoomer is offering.
I realise he has put alot of work into it AND it does run on the standard ECU, however the microtech can take over that which we worked out at RotorWorx in melb.
Also, you can re-tune as needed for mods and grow your fuel maps as you grow your list of mods.
I realise he has put alot of work into it AND it does run on the standard ECU, however the microtech can take over that which we worked out at RotorWorx in melb.
Also, you can re-tune as needed for mods and grow your fuel maps as you grow your list of mods.
10-27-2003, 03:56 PM
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KAS , DGW.
CANZOOMER HAS VERIFIED WHAT I HAD FEARED .
The Australian and European spec cars may only get 10-15 hp gains , because of the different ECUbeing used , in this case KAS i will consider the microteck upgrade version , please keep us posted .
Thanks
michael
CANZOOMER HAS VERIFIED WHAT I HAD FEARED .
The Australian and European spec cars may only get 10-15 hp gains , because of the different ECUbeing used , in this case KAS i will consider the microteck upgrade version , please keep us posted .
Thanks
michael
10-27-2003, 04:03 PM
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The first part is the question I asked canzoomer and the second part is his answer.
Enjoy!
Originally posted by Lock & Load
CANZOOMER
As our rx8 here in oz are using a european version of the ECU and put out 177kw will your 1st stage system operate on our cars as effectively as yours and will you make them available to us .
Also could you go into a bit more detail as to the oil injection problem that you faced in your own car , and were was the 60 +NUMBER OF PROBLEM CARS SOURCED FROM .
Keep up the great work
thanks
michael
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You will gain less from our F/C kit over there.
We are correcting the N.America and EURO4 mapping issues. the EURO3 maps are better. Frankly, I believe the map you have over there is really the one that actually makes 238HP. Over here we see that this figure is BS.
I can extrapolate perhaps a 12-15HP gain, but without your ECU to test with it is only speculation..
Regarding the oil injection matter, the info is derived by a couple of dealer mechanics snooping around for me.
Sorry, no names!
As for details, the report is from Mazda Canada, based on the tests they had the dealer do. Compression, ECU, OBD, etc.
Mazda Canada seem to be wel versed in the matter as they told the mechanic what tests to do, and immediately after he sent them the results they made the diagnosis and asked him to crate the engine for return.
If you can through these forums you will see a few others who have encountered this. In the first ones in the USA MAzda sent a couple of techs from their California facility to inspect the cars and engines at the dealers.
Until we can get our hands on an engine that has failed this way and strip and inspect it we can only speculate about the details of the failure.
The common factors seem to be it usually happens after around 3,000 miles, it usually happens on the highway at a sustained speed of around 80mph+ of a duration of at least 1/2 hour.
SPECULATION:
I wonder iof the engine oil light coming on is really just a false reading, or is there a real problem?
I routinely drive on the highway at 130-145kmh (80-90mph) and frequently see the oil light come on in the dash. I have dealt with it by keeping the oil scrupulously topped and "wiggling" the car when i see the light.
The conditions that cause thie light to come on are very similar to those when the oil injection failure occurs.
Perhaps there really IS a problem under this condition and the injectors get starved for oil?
/SPECULATION
Enjoy!
Originally posted by Lock & Load
CANZOOMER
As our rx8 here in oz are using a european version of the ECU and put out 177kw will your 1st stage system operate on our cars as effectively as yours and will you make them available to us .
Also could you go into a bit more detail as to the oil injection problem that you faced in your own car , and were was the 60 +NUMBER OF PROBLEM CARS SOURCED FROM .
Keep up the great work
thanks
michael
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You will gain less from our F/C kit over there.
We are correcting the N.America and EURO4 mapping issues. the EURO3 maps are better. Frankly, I believe the map you have over there is really the one that actually makes 238HP. Over here we see that this figure is BS.
I can extrapolate perhaps a 12-15HP gain, but without your ECU to test with it is only speculation..
Regarding the oil injection matter, the info is derived by a couple of dealer mechanics snooping around for me.
Sorry, no names!
As for details, the report is from Mazda Canada, based on the tests they had the dealer do. Compression, ECU, OBD, etc.
Mazda Canada seem to be wel versed in the matter as they told the mechanic what tests to do, and immediately after he sent them the results they made the diagnosis and asked him to crate the engine for return.
If you can through these forums you will see a few others who have encountered this. In the first ones in the USA MAzda sent a couple of techs from their California facility to inspect the cars and engines at the dealers.
Until we can get our hands on an engine that has failed this way and strip and inspect it we can only speculate about the details of the failure.
The common factors seem to be it usually happens after around 3,000 miles, it usually happens on the highway at a sustained speed of around 80mph+ of a duration of at least 1/2 hour.
SPECULATION:
I wonder iof the engine oil light coming on is really just a false reading, or is there a real problem?
I routinely drive on the highway at 130-145kmh (80-90mph) and frequently see the oil light come on in the dash. I have dealt with it by keeping the oil scrupulously topped and "wiggling" the car when i see the light.
The conditions that cause thie light to come on are very similar to those when the oil injection failure occurs.
Perhaps there really IS a problem under this condition and the injectors get starved for oil?
/SPECULATION
10-27-2003, 04:17 PM
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As you can see according to canzoomer the 238hp supposed output of our cars is a lot of BULLSHIT.
Canzoomer has done extensive testing on the rx8 and i for one feel that he is correct .
177kw i believe is more like 167kw or less .
By the seat of my pants driving i can feel the missing kw.
MAZDA is still using the mushroom principle of doing bussiness.
" KEEP CUSTOMERS IN THE DARK AND FEED THEM BULLSHIT "
Canzoomer has done extensive testing on the rx8 and i for one feel that he is correct .
177kw i believe is more like 167kw or less .
By the seat of my pants driving i can feel the missing kw.
MAZDA is still using the mushroom principle of doing bussiness.
" KEEP CUSTOMERS IN THE DARK AND FEED THEM BULLSHIT "
10-27-2003, 09:58 PM
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Canzoomer feels that our cars with euro 3 may actually be making the advertised 238 hp,unlike the european cars which run euro 4 emmisions ecu making only 228hp. He feels that US version is likely running similar euro 4 spec ecus thus only making 238 hp . Thus he predicts only a 12-15 hp improvement for our aussie cars with his a/f stage one mods.
As the US cars are making a max of 188 hp on dyno, our cars should theoretically be approaching 200 rear wheel hp on the dyno.
Has anyone in oz dynoed there car and if so what hp did they achieve?
As the US cars are making a max of 188 hp on dyno, our cars should theoretically be approaching 200 rear wheel hp on the dyno.
Has anyone in oz dynoed there car and if so what hp did they achieve?
10-27-2003, 10:08 PM
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sorry george.
we're making the quoted 177kw as was always stated from the start.
I've got an email from mazda about this somewhere, when i get home i'll post it.
canzoomer may be wrong, and given good reason as he does not know exactly what we have been given here.
we're making the quoted 177kw as was always stated from the start.
I've got an email from mazda about this somewhere, when i get home i'll post it.
canzoomer may be wrong, and given good reason as he does not know exactly what we have been given here.
10-27-2003, 10:28 PM
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ahh. my bad =)
hmm, reading too much here.
so if we have the same HP as the US then why is he saying we will only get 10-15HP ?
I'll be going the microtech
hmm, reading too much here.
so if we have the same HP as the US then why is he saying we will only get 10-15HP ?
I'll be going the microtech
10-28-2003, 06:54 AM
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It sounds to me like canzoomer thinks we in Australia have the EURO3 maps.
I'm almost certain that we have the EURO4 maps. Mazda Aust. have made a point of advertising the fact that the RX-8 already meets EURO4 standards, and isn't this the exact reason why they downgraded our power from 184kW to 177kW before we got the cars?
It looks like canzoomer is predicting a 25hp gain on the EURO4 map, and a 10-15hp gain on the EURO3 map. But we have EURO4 maps, so....
My gut feeling on the power issue... I believe our car is currently making 177kW.
I'm almost certain that we have the EURO4 maps. Mazda Aust. have made a point of advertising the fact that the RX-8 already meets EURO4 standards, and isn't this the exact reason why they downgraded our power from 184kW to 177kW before we got the cars?
It looks like canzoomer is predicting a 25hp gain on the EURO4 map, and a 10-15hp gain on the EURO3 map. But we have EURO4 maps, so....
My gut feeling on the power issue... I believe our car is currently making 177kW.
10-28-2003, 07:48 AM
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If you had a EURO4 map, you be getting 170kW (228hp, 231ps) rather than 177kW (238hp, 240ps).
We'd also prefer EURO3 maps instead of EURO4 which don't have to be used until next year. That would make the pre-ordered cars (which we are still waiting for) worth the full non discounted price and any first year niggles.
Cheers
---Dave
We'd also prefer EURO3 maps instead of EURO4 which don't have to be used until next year. That would make the pre-ordered cars (which we are still waiting for) worth the full non discounted price and any first year niggles.
Cheers
---Dave
10-29-2003, 12:16 AM
#21
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After starting this tread i am now more confused than before as to the type of ECU and what the supposed power output is.
MAZDA australia said that we are getting a version of the euro spec ECU . DEFINITION OF VERSION UNKNOWN???
MICHAEL
MAZDA australia said that we are getting a version of the euro spec ECU . DEFINITION OF VERSION UNKNOWN???
MICHAEL
10-29-2003, 01:48 AM
#22
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Whether it is fact or fiction, the LEGAL representation of Mazda Australia is that our (6sp) 8s are 177Kw power output models (see brochures and KAS's email from MA). If this is not the case, then Mazda Australia have made a clear misrepresentation and accordingly are liable for this to all owners or those who ordered based on that representation.
But, as to the version of the ECU, I have no idea. Will check with service manager when I have my 10K service next week
Timbo
But, as to the version of the ECU, I have no idea. Will check with service manager when I have my 10K service next week
Timbo
10-29-2003, 06:36 AM
#25
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L&L - When Mazda refers to our car being a version of the EURO spec car, I believe they are referring to the fact that our car is almost the same, except for subtle differences such as the lack of a rear foglight etc etc. I would bet though that our ECU is exactly the same as the European RX-8.
Hymee - interested to see a dyno result, but since the RX-8 wont dyno properly, I think times on the track are more indicative. I for one haven't even gone close to the quoted 0-100 in 6.2 sec. The best I have done (self timed) have been numerous 6.9's.
DGW
Hymee - interested to see a dyno result, but since the RX-8 wont dyno properly, I think times on the track are more indicative. I for one haven't even gone close to the quoted 0-100 in 6.2 sec. The best I have done (self timed) have been numerous 6.9's.
DGW