Kas

I have ordered a G-Tech which is fairly acurate. actually they say it like 0.002 as far as acuracy.

druck

It will be the same physical ECU, what will be different is the map data loaded in to it. You can't tell this by looking, and you wont get conclusive proof on a chasis dyno either, given difficulties explained by Mazda. Probably the easiest way to distinguish between the EURO3 and EURO4 maps is to do a full emmissions test, the later should have significantly lower figures for hydrocarbon emissions etc.

Cheers
---Dave

RotaryPower3

I've actually seen 2 different RX8s on the dyno now. Mine and Simons at Promaz.... both put out 106kw(142hp).... didn't make any difference if the DCS was off or on. Obviously this can't be a true reading....

Wildcard

Did you guys have the DSC turned fully off - ie hold the button down for >7sec until the light with the car with the squiggly lines comes on? Those are the lowest dyno figures I've ever heard. We should be seeing at least 170rwhp.

Kev

FWIW, here's the text that resulted from my power query to mazda...

Australian Specifications

The Australian RX-8 is powered by a version of the European-specification
RENESIS rotary engine. Australian six-speed manual RX-8s develop 177kW
(ECE) at 8200rpm and 211Nm (ECE) at 5500rpm. Manual models will accelerate
from rest to 100mh in 6.2 seconds.

And you may have heard about the upcoming Euro Stage III emissions
standards, which come into law from January 2005 for new cars. The RENESIS
engine has been designed to pass this stringent emission standard, so you
can be rest assured that your RX-8 also has 'environmental' credentials.

Regards

Maria Ramirez
Customer Relations
Mazda Australia


WEBSITE ENQUIRY - 2003/08/26 Advertising and Marketing

RotaryPower3

Yes was fully turned off.... didn't make any difference...

Yet to try dupping the rear speed signal into the front though...

Wildcard

Cool. I didn't think you'd be that dumb, but I couldn't think of any other reason for such low results.

RotaryPower3

With the DSC turned on it won't go past 2000rpm, just sits there like your pliping the throttle!

Dez

can someone qualified [ hymee? kaz? ] summarise the "sales vs testing I've done" for us dummies? I'm really curious just how far out form 177kw the reality in AU acrually is now.

++dez;

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

My Coit Dyno could not detect much of a difference between rxeightr's '8 and my own.

Guy's please don't get carried away with dyno results alone. They can vary quite considerably between different physical dynoes, and even a lot on the same dyno on different days.

My 5.7L SS was retuned after I did some more exhaust and TB-MAF pipe mods. It dynoed 220kW at the rear wheels (rwkW).

A number of weeks later we had a dyno day. I did not touch a thing on the car, and she pulled 235rwkW. It was a perfect day for it though. Cool temps, and low humidity.

Personally, I don't beleive the "can't dyno" the '8 line. I will have mine up on Power Torques dyno sooner or later.

BUT - I MUST SAY THIS LOUD SO Y'ALL UNDERSTAND.....

A dyno is only a tool used by a tuner to quantify changes made to a car. There is nothing to be gained by comparing the 235rwkW I obtained on PT's chassis dyno one day, to a run on someone elses dyno some place else. It should only be used to compare changes made.

</endOfLoudLesson>

But what is 15hp going to give you? I never ran my Commodore on the strip before I did any mods. But I have personally experienced an SS do a 13.99 with only a simple catback exhaust. Now the best I got was a 13.8 with "right on the edge tune", full exhaust, intake mods etc.

Personally, I would rather let my tuner accuratley tune my ECU to suit my particular vehicle. That said, I know of many happy customers of a "mail order tune". Just look up StreetTuna or Doughboy performance on ls1.com.au to get an idea. But these guys do re-cal your ECU, rather than piggy back on something. Personally I like to reflash the ECU rather than bolt on something that just tricks the computer.

Anyway - back to the topic, according to my coit, a US spec and an Aussy spec hi-power '8 feel about the same.

Just don't go racing LS1's in a straight line. You'll beat a stock one to the 60' mark if you are good, and maybe to 1/2 track length. Then they just go flying past. I have witnessed it.

Now it is a different story on the twisties though! I had heaps of fun pushing an 11 second SS through some lovely roads up esk way :p Did I see any stones heading for my A/c condensor that day??? :hide:

Improving your cars performance is a total package. Some of it will come from intake. Some of it will come from exhaust. Some of it will come from fuel and ignition mappings. And unfortunately for us RX-8 owners, a few of us are going to be guinea pigs. And spend lots of money doing it that will be wasted the first time round.

Anyway, I promised.....


Cheers,
Hymee.

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

PS - free bragging rights for the first aussy post of a RX-8 dyno sheet.

MadMAX

I recon Hymee has hit the nail on the head
It's not all about the numbers on the dyno IMHO. It's the whole package. The dynamics of the 8 in the twisty bits are so far ahead of most other cars on the road that the power issue (well 15-20 Kw) is not really a factor.
That said, I think and extra 50 - 70 Kw would be relavent... but we are then back to FI and experimentation.
I am gonna watch how KAS goes a bit further down the track. But for now the stock output (maybe Borla exhaust) will do fine

Kev

I'd be surprised if a comprehensive Mazdaspeed (Japan) kit didn't become locally available (or importable). That would be my preference. Something like intake+headers+exhaust+hi-flo cat+ecu upgrade.

I'm not into really light flywheels, but I've read that it's a very heavy one in the Renesis, chopping a few kilos off may be good!

On the technical ecu front, I think there's scope for some really clever application of genetic algorithms. Nothing would be more cool that your ecu evolving into a smarter ecu

Dez

reading some of the history of the general forums in the past few days, one thought has come to mind in this thread.

lots of people have talked about "running in" their cars with gently gently approaches..

I wonder what sort of power differneces can be gained by running the car in more gently as apposed say to what someone I konw might have done.. being get out there and "drive" the thing from day one..?

++dez;

neit_jnf

I don't know how it compares to other piston engines but the Renesis has the lightest flywheel of any stock rotary engine. But if you want it even lighter Mazdaspeed has one for the RX-8

canzoomer

Just reading over this thread, and since I seem to be getting quoted a fair bit, and reading around here and elsewhere, I decided it is time to step in with a couple of comments.

I had earlier said that i believed that in Aus you were going to get a better ECU map than what we received in N.America.

However I have now seen several dyno runs posted by people, and they look identical to what we see over here.

So, I suspect you got the same ECU tune as we did.

There is one definitive way to test.
If one of you were to insert a "bung" (Threaded female 18mm insert) just forward of the catalytic converter, and install a good 5 wire lambda sensor ( fuel/air ratio measuring device) and get some readings and send them to me, I could verify what you have.

The sensor and device for reading it that i can recommend is this one:

http://www.lambdaboy.com/product.html

There are probably others, but the main thisg is to use the NTK or Bosch sensors mentioned there. They are the only truly accurate ones available when you get to ratios below 13:1.

Anyway, here is an offer:

If one of the Australian owners buys our Stage1 kit, and only gets an improvement of 18 hp at 8500rpm or less, we will refund half their money.
Offer limited to the first 2 who buy and try.

I hope this sounds like a fair deal?

Lock & Load

Canzoomer

I will get back to you , i want to test my car before i commit ,it would be nice to get to the bottom of the ecu mystery.

Wildcard

Thanks canzoomer. Lambda sensors are way over my head unfortunately.