Lock & Load

Rotary news has reported that MAZDA will have a electric turbo for the RX8 in the toyko motor show in 2005 .

What would the benefits of a electric turbo be over normal type turbo ??? smoothness power ????

Power comes on from 1000rpm onwards .

cheers
michael

pepe

Isn't that closer to a supercharger than a turbocharger?

Lock & Load

Garret turbos view on electric turbos ,

Turbos are a controversial subject, especially among consumers familiar with older designs that all too often broke down or suffered from other problems, such as turbo lag. During a series of presentations to industry officials this week, Garrett made the case that a well-designed powertrain can last as long as a naturally-aspirated design, while eliminating turbo lag.

Turbocharger technology has advanced significantly over the last decade. Variable-geometry fans have improved efficiency, especially at low engine speeds. Now Garrett is promoting a hybrid turbocharger that incorporates an electric motor/generator. Apply some current and the turbine starts spinning, even at idle, when boost is normally minimal. While a number of manufacturers quietly acknowledge studying so-called electronic turbos, most are reluctant to adopt the concept until they migrate from 12-volt to 48-volt electrical systems. But Garrett's Mart Verschoor insists there's a real advantage, even today. Give it a kilowatt of electricity, and an electronic turbo can boost an engine's output by as much as 45 lb-feet of torque at idle.

Meanwhile, electronic turbos could get a boost from another technology designed to improve fuel economy. Gasoline/electric hybrids recapture energy normally lost during braking or coasting, and store it in a battery. When starting off at a light, or under hard acceleration, the electricity is used to power a motor assist system, something often referred to as "electric supercharging." An electronic supercharger can not only boost the performance of a hybrid's typical miniscule engine, but its motor also could serve as a generator, recapturing waste energy in the exhaust system, and also using it to charge the battery. Garrett officials are cautiously optimistic that in one form or another, the first electronic turbos will hit the street around 2005.

Such arguments have clearly won a sympathetic ear in Europe and Japan, where turbocharging is fast gaining ground, and Garrett believes the U.S. will shortly come around. As the world's largest turbo supplier, Garrett has seen unit sales grow from 2.1 million in 1994 to 7.2 million last year. Garrett currently has 64 percent of the European turbodiesel business. A division of Honeywell, the supplier's sales topped $1.4 billion in 2002.

cheers
michael

BVD

Just guessing, but perhaps adding the capacity to drive the turbo electrically allows for greater flexibility in tuning where and when the boost is applied.

Presumably it would allow direct control of the turbo by the computer and free it from the limitations imposed by having to use just whatever power is available from the exhaust gas flow at any given time. Would help with lag, etc.

Good quotes from by Garrett. Some interesting points, although a bit of PR padding there too. For instance:

"Give it a kilowatt of electricity, and an electronic turbo can boost an engine's output by as much as 45 lb-feet of torque at idle."

Eye catching numbers. But the phrase "as much as" is always a slippery one - and hey - who needs more power at idle!

Cheers,

Chris

ypwpat

Maybe an Electric Turbo won't generate much heat?

sinkas

Hi all,

It was my understanding that , I think as BVD is alluding to, that electic tubros will require a lot of power, and the resultant losses in friction, weight and bonnet space af a very big alternator will meanthe effect is overall negative. I think it is the same with eletric waterpumps, as they, really dont work past a certian point, where the thermalloading and the flow rates outstrip any reasonable automotive electrical system.

having said that, if mazda have got it works, great.

Hey also Ricers, could fit a electic turbo next to their engine, so they can have real blow-off valzes going off, without needing to crack open the engine..

Cheers

Case

BVD

BTW, I'm assuming that they are referring to an electric motor that only assists the gas driven turbine part of the charger, not replaces it. They refer to "a hybrid turbocharger" not an electric supercharger. They also say it "incorporates" an electric motor rather than just saying it's powered by one.

Normally the "turbo" part of turbocharger refers to the fact that the power to operate the 'charger' part is supplied by a turbine that's driven by the car's exhaust gases.

Other chargers (belt or gear driven) are normally called superchargers (although technically all chargers are apparently superchargers, and only the exhaust gas turbine powered ones are also "turbochargers" ).

The concept here (at least in relation the the RX8) would seem to be to have an electric motor that can help run the charger at maximum efficiency when power from the exhaust is low or not ideal. This could assist in smoothing and speeding up the process at 'change of state' times, less than optimum conditions, etc.

However, I could be completely wrong and they might be planning a fully electrical device. :D If so, they've got their terminology muddled in the descriptions.

Cheers

Chris

AMG

the main advantage of an electric turbo as I see it is no expensive plumbing required

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BVD

Chris

Thanks for youre imput its allways thorough and informative .

WHAT EVER MAZDA DO I AM SURE IT WILL BE ON THE CONSERVATIVE SIDE as in the mx5 small turbo set up , i just hope that future upgrades of the RX8 WILL BE COMPATIBLE AND available to the RX8 Owners here in Australia .

Another 20-30 kw will not be knocked back .

cheers
michael

Lock & Load

AMG

Plumbing , Panelbeating , plastering , similar to Dentistry but not as Expensive .HE HE HE

cheers
michael