Entrapment Laws, Australia/Queensland
02-10-2004, 11:51 PM
#1
Entrapment Laws, Australia/Queensland
Hi guys,
Sco pointed me in the direction of a thread on Ausrotary about police using unmarked utes on the Mt Glorious road to entice drivers into breaking the law.
Then today, I got this email from one of my LS1 forum buddies:
I have no legal qualifications, but I would be interested in others opinions, and getting some form of discussion happening.
Cheers,
Hymee.
Sco pointed me in the direction of a thread on Ausrotary about police using unmarked utes on the Mt Glorious road to entice drivers into breaking the law.
Then today, I got this email from one of my LS1 forum buddies:
Hi,
Over the last few weeks, I have compiled the following list which indicates the latest additions to the Qld Police Force fleet of traffic squad vehicles. These vehicles are all unmarked police cars and have been used for entrapment purposes - that is, to entice the driver to commit an offence under the Traffic Infringement Act so as to raise revenue. If anyone has any further detail about these vehicles or about any other vehicle used for direct traffic patrol on the streets of South East Qld, please let me know. Send this around to as many people as you know.
Over the last few weeks, I have compiled the following list which indicates the latest additions to the Qld Police Force fleet of traffic squad vehicles. These vehicles are all unmarked police cars and have been used for entrapment purposes - that is, to entice the driver to commit an offence under the Traffic Infringement Act so as to raise revenue. If anyone has any further detail about these vehicles or about any other vehicle used for direct traffic patrol on the streets of South East Qld, please let me know. Send this around to as many people as you know.
- Holden Commodore SS Ute - Red (with Jet Pilot sticker on rear window & fitted with video recording and speed monitoring
equipment) - Holden Commodore SS Ute - Dark Green (with no visible stickers or markings & fitted with video recording and speed monitoring equipment)
- Holden Commodore SS Ute - Black (with Yoshimura Racing sticker on rear window & fitted with video recording and speed monitoring equipment)
- Holden Astra Turbo - Silver (registration no. 444 EVR - this vehicle is not specifically used for speed infringements because its unable to catch most sports cars on the road, however its being used primarily as back up for the Utes).
Cheers,
Hymee.
02-11-2004, 12:40 AM
#2
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Rockhampton, Qld
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No idea on the Hymee, but I do recall this happening to my brother about 5 years ago around here. Back then he had a hotted up LH torrie. Basically, the unmarked tail gated him and got him to keep going faster and faster until he got to the radar gun.
Lost his licence for 6 months and got a hefty fine from memory..
Lost his licence for 6 months and got a hefty fine from memory..
02-11-2004, 01:40 AM
#3
- Senior Menber -
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Melbourne,AU
Posts: 556
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i fu****g hate that!
Entrapment is just pathetic. Cops treat us like **** and we all sit here and take it like bitches. excuse the language.
Try do that in america.
Entrapment is just pathetic. Cops treat us like **** and we all sit here and take it like bitches. excuse the language.
Try do that in america.
02-11-2004, 05:33 AM
#4
Shifty Bastard.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Melbourne, Australia.
Posts: 4,835
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The coppers in Vic have used hire BMW's in the past....
You can spot a speed camera car on the side of the road down here by the super dark window tint, its a workcover requirement apparently!!!!
Gomez
You can spot a speed camera car on the side of the road down here by the super dark window tint, its a workcover requirement apparently!!!!
Gomez
02-11-2004, 07:00 AM
#6
Humpin legs and takin nam
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Clearwater, Fl
Posts: 2,433
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Im not Australian, so I don't know the laws there.. but..
Setting an unmarked vehicle on the side of the road waiting to be stolen is not considered entrapment (in the U.S). The reason being that no one is actively inticing the thief to steal THAT vehicle. He does so of his own accord. Now, if an officer somehow calls a known car thief and tells him where said vehicle is and asks him to steal it, it could be considered entrapment.
Setting an unmarked vehicle on the side of the road waiting to be stolen is not considered entrapment (in the U.S). The reason being that no one is actively inticing the thief to steal THAT vehicle. He does so of his own accord. Now, if an officer somehow calls a known car thief and tells him where said vehicle is and asks him to steal it, it could be considered entrapment.
02-11-2004, 07:03 AM
#7
Humpin legs and takin nam
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Clearwater, Fl
Posts: 2,433
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Also, the cop would have to actively engage you in a drag race to be entrapment. If he's just driving around and YOU decide to race him then it is not entrapment.
02-11-2004, 04:43 PM
#8
New Member
I will run the car down and hit something...
Tell you something... if you want a new car within the first year- like the AAMI policy. You can total your car after being flashed by a speed camera. Pretended you have collapsed and become like hangover - being stunned and shocked and like someone after seizure basically. Of course the blood alcohol has to be zero and you will check yourself into the hospital. You tell the doctor you were tired after long shift and you saw the flash light and totally black afterwards. You woke up and forgot what happened. Similar episode also happen to you last year in the night club after a few drink. Then you go to have examination by doctor which is completely normal and you may go the a CT scanner to scan your brain but it will be normal. Your diagnosis will be epilepsy and you can sue the police for compansation and sure it will be successful!
The only downside is you will be out of driving for 2 months! as you are an epileptic - you have to be stable before you drive again. You will get a new car with AAMI as police is paying for it and you have 2 months off with sick leave and compansation from the law suit.
It may not work then you are totally screwed so no one has tried it yet! :D
Sorry of all this BS
DD
Tell you something... if you want a new car within the first year- like the AAMI policy. You can total your car after being flashed by a speed camera. Pretended you have collapsed and become like hangover - being stunned and shocked and like someone after seizure basically. Of course the blood alcohol has to be zero and you will check yourself into the hospital. You tell the doctor you were tired after long shift and you saw the flash light and totally black afterwards. You woke up and forgot what happened. Similar episode also happen to you last year in the night club after a few drink. Then you go to have examination by doctor which is completely normal and you may go the a CT scanner to scan your brain but it will be normal. Your diagnosis will be epilepsy and you can sue the police for compansation and sure it will be successful!
The only downside is you will be out of driving for 2 months! as you are an epileptic - you have to be stable before you drive again. You will get a new car with AAMI as police is paying for it and you have 2 months off with sick leave and compansation from the law suit.
It may not work then you are totally screwed so no one has tried it yet! :D
Sorry of all this BS
DD
02-11-2004, 07:17 PM
#10
rock-->o<--hard place
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Canberra, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 3,242
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am not a practising lawyer, so you have to treat the following with obvious care. 
My understanding is that the term 'entrapment', while well-known and understood as a defence in the US, is not so well accepted in Australia. But there is a general principle that the police may not themselves undertake an illegal act which leads to. or results in, someone acting illegally as a consequence. The principle and possible defence is more common in relation to prostitution, homosexual and drug laws than driving.
So, for the case in point, if the police were using the unmarked vehicles to drag other motorists and, in the process, clearly exceeded the speed limit and/or drove dangerously which resulted in another motorist breaking the same or other laws, and then the initiating police officer sought to arrest that motorist, an entrapment type of defence could be made. I think in Australian/UK law, the general idea is that the prosecution have to bring a case to the court "with clean hands", as the legal expression goes -- that they have not acted illegally in gathering evidence for the prosecution etc.
The big issue, of course, is proof, and if it is one police officer vs one motorist, well, need I say more…
If, in the case described above, the motorist is pulled over by the support Turbo Astra, then you are even worse off! The police officer in the Astra will feign ignorance etc, tell you he'll get the other guy, but as far as he saw, you're done!
In all of this, there are also quite strict rules regarding the way the police themselves drive and, in particular, undertake a pursuit. For the most part, the police are obliged to observe all rules of the road unless they are clearly in pursuit, with lights, sirens etc. There are exceptions to this, but drag racing isn't one of them!
My GP (who is A WRX driver) told me about an experience he had with an unmarked SS, who pulled alongside him on the Hume, and then accelerated ahead sharply to well over 130kph. My Dr friend, on the basis the road was clear and conditions good, responded, overtook the SS -- and was promptly pulled over! Instead of sitting there meekly ("cuntstanoon, afterble!"), he asked for the police officer's full details, took registration details for the SS, and told the officer he would make a full report to the Commissioner, Minister for Police, local MP etc. As he said, he punted his reputation as a Dr against that of the young officer.
Not all of us can do that -- but it may be a worthwhile approach if you feel you can.
Best thing, of course, is not to be tempted by anyone including 'hoon' police in unmarked cars.
Or you can contact Lock & Load -- I recall he has 'mates' in the Qld Police :p
My understanding is that the term 'entrapment', while well-known and understood as a defence in the US, is not so well accepted in Australia. But there is a general principle that the police may not themselves undertake an illegal act which leads to. or results in, someone acting illegally as a consequence. The principle and possible defence is more common in relation to prostitution, homosexual and drug laws than driving.
So, for the case in point, if the police were using the unmarked vehicles to drag other motorists and, in the process, clearly exceeded the speed limit and/or drove dangerously which resulted in another motorist breaking the same or other laws, and then the initiating police officer sought to arrest that motorist, an entrapment type of defence could be made. I think in Australian/UK law, the general idea is that the prosecution have to bring a case to the court "with clean hands", as the legal expression goes -- that they have not acted illegally in gathering evidence for the prosecution etc.
The big issue, of course, is proof, and if it is one police officer vs one motorist, well, need I say more…
If, in the case described above, the motorist is pulled over by the support Turbo Astra, then you are even worse off! The police officer in the Astra will feign ignorance etc, tell you he'll get the other guy, but as far as he saw, you're done!
In all of this, there are also quite strict rules regarding the way the police themselves drive and, in particular, undertake a pursuit. For the most part, the police are obliged to observe all rules of the road unless they are clearly in pursuit, with lights, sirens etc. There are exceptions to this, but drag racing isn't one of them!
My GP (who is A WRX driver) told me about an experience he had with an unmarked SS, who pulled alongside him on the Hume, and then accelerated ahead sharply to well over 130kph. My Dr friend, on the basis the road was clear and conditions good, responded, overtook the SS -- and was promptly pulled over! Instead of sitting there meekly ("cuntstanoon, afterble!"), he asked for the police officer's full details, took registration details for the SS, and told the officer he would make a full report to the Commissioner, Minister for Police, local MP etc. As he said, he punted his reputation as a Dr against that of the young officer.
Not all of us can do that -- but it may be a worthwhile approach if you feel you can.
Best thing, of course, is not to be tempted by anyone including 'hoon' police in unmarked cars.
Or you can contact Lock & Load -- I recall he has 'mates' in the Qld Police :p
Last edited by timbo; 02-11-2004 at 07:24 PM.
02-11-2004, 07:29 PM
#11
rock-->o<--hard place
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Canberra, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 3,242
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by takahashi
Tell you something... if you want a new car within the first year- like the AAMI policy. You can total your car after being flashed by a speed camera. Pretended you have collapsed and become like hangover - being stunned and shocked and like someone after seizure basically. Of course the blood alcohol has to be zero and you will check yourself into the hospital. You tell the doctor you were tired after long shift and you saw the flash light and totally black afterwards. You woke up and forgot what happened. Similar episode also happen to you last year in the night club after a few drink. Then you go to have examination by doctor …
It may not work then you are totally screwed so no one has tried it yet! :D
Sorry of all this BSDD
Tell you something... if you want a new car within the first year- like the AAMI policy. You can total your car after being flashed by a speed camera. Pretended you have collapsed and become like hangover - being stunned and shocked and like someone after seizure basically. Of course the blood alcohol has to be zero and you will check yourself into the hospital. You tell the doctor you were tired after long shift and you saw the flash light and totally black afterwards. You woke up and forgot what happened. Similar episode also happen to you last year in the night club after a few drink. Then you go to have examination by doctor …
It may not work then you are totally screwed so no one has tried it yet! :D
Sorry of all this BS
DD
Thinks: hey, maybe I WILL write that thesis on do-it-yourself brain surgery :D
Taka, I'll be happy to see you if I wake up in a hospital … but not if I discover you are defending me in court!
02-11-2004, 08:55 PM
#12
www.rx8club.com.au
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 681
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A few years back a guy i knew from school was killed in a police chase.
He was no angel but some how with no police intervention on a straight going down Princess Highwat in St Peters ( Sydney ) the car flipped and hit poll.
Witness said that she saw the police car push the back of the car until it lost control then the cop backed off. But some where this witness never gave evidence she was a little old lady watering her garden.
Anyway i got two cop mates, they are detectives so they dont mess with the hoon police as they call them. They said on heaps of occassions local police think there cowboys in American car chase videos.
On many occassions only hurting them self.
Regards
Phillip
He was no angel but some how with no police intervention on a straight going down Princess Highwat in St Peters ( Sydney ) the car flipped and hit poll.
Witness said that she saw the police car push the back of the car until it lost control then the cop backed off. But some where this witness never gave evidence she was a little old lady watering her garden.
Anyway i got two cop mates, they are detectives so they dont mess with the hoon police as they call them. They said on heaps of occassions local police think there cowboys in American car chase videos.
On many occassions only hurting them self.
Regards
Phillip
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
fc2se
NE For Sale/Wanted
2
06-01-2016 08:55 PM
LMURailsplitter02
New Member Forum
1
09-06-2015 10:56 PM
