Flash tuned and SC'ed!
10-25-2008, 01:57 AM
#1
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Flash tuned and SC'ed!
such a good feeling to finally be able to rev the car to the red-line and drive my custom supercharger install in boost!
after some minor teething problems I met up with hymee and he loaded a boosted map onto my pcm. it's so easy and only takes about 60s.
his software is easily the equal of cobb tunings effort and personally I prefer hymee's. the inclusion of hymee's logging and sCANalyser software would be the icing on the cake!
I won't claim I have heaps more power but it's an improvement and there are lots of tweaks to be made to dial the system in.
for 7psi, a 60s base map flash, and a hammering of 80km rotaries are as tough as nails
after some minor teething problems I met up with hymee and he loaded a boosted map onto my pcm. it's so easy and only takes about 60s.
his software is easily the equal of cobb tunings effort and personally I prefer hymee's. the inclusion of hymee's logging and sCANalyser software would be the icing on the cake!
I won't claim I have heaps more power but it's an improvement and there are lots of tweaks to be made to dial the system in.
for 7psi, a 60s base map flash, and a hammering of 80km rotaries are as tough as nails
10-25-2008, 03:06 AM
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10-25-2008, 03:52 AM
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Congratulations Jarl.
Looking forward to catching up next time you're in Brissie...ps I'm not too far from Hymee. I have most of the bits I've been waiting on (will post pics in my build thread), unfortunately I don't have any time to play with them. 
Cheers,
Danny
10-25-2008, 04:42 AM
#9
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I put the pulleys on hold to sort the tuning and even though hymee's flash tune was magic it's only the start of the tune process
10-25-2008, 10:54 AM
#10
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tease...
10-25-2008, 04:30 PM
#11
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tease? yeah I guess so but it's much harder for me not to post info on the project than it is to show off my baby to everyone!
only reason I haven't started a build thread is that these things take time when you have other things to do. I started this 10 months ago and if I started a thread then or even now I would have people asking how's it going and all you have to say for months is "I'm waiting on this part/fabrication or I'm just sitting on my
this weekend and taking a dam break"
only reason I haven't started a build thread is that these things take time when you have other things to do. I started this 10 months ago and if I started a thread then or even now I would have people asking how's it going and all you have to say for months is "I'm waiting on this part/fabrication or I'm just sitting on my
this weekend and taking a dam break"
11-10-2008, 03:11 AM
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I heard a can crushing today at 8500rpm and shat myself. I backed right off and hit the peak button on my defi gauges: 10psi on the standard injectors 
a SC really shouldn't spike the boost so I don't know where 10psi came from
It has been rock solid a 6.5-7psi and I was thinking about trying to drive it harder for more boost when this happens. I just wish I had my logger connected so I could see what flow the motor was breathing to see if the pressure spike happened after I backed off.
a SC really shouldn't spike the boost so I don't know where 10psi came from
It has been rock solid a 6.5-7psi and I was thinking about trying to drive it harder for more boost when this happens. I just wish I had my logger connected so I could see what flow the motor was breathing to see if the pressure spike happened after I backed off.
11-10-2008, 05:39 AM
#16
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yeah I guess it was the compressor momentarily being able to compress the air after the throttle closed or when the rpm bounced off the rev limit.
11-29-2008, 02:20 AM
#17
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it's been just over a month now since I started driving in boost. Hymee's flash tuning system is working well and I have made a few minor adjustments.
luckily I didn't go nuts trying to calibrate the MAF or anything as I found a few issues they appeared top be MAF related but once resolved indicate the std calibration works well with my intake.
the main problem was a big leak in the silicone joiner attached to the compressor. it wasn't a very good fit and the hose clamps couldn't hold the seal. I replaced this expensive silicone hose with a bit of aluminum pipe and some cheep ebay silicone couplers and the leak is gone. The supercharger was blowing air out this leak and the MAF was reading exaggerated flows. my long term trims were around -9% and while I knew that's on the high side of acceptable, I thought I would allow the system to do what it thought was best instead of calibrating the MAF.
with the leak fixed my long term trims have dropped down to under -2%.
below is a picture of my intake being tested NA prior to boosted operation. I affectionately call it "the bugle" as it's shape like a trumpet. it ended up like this to get good flow across the MAF by allowing for a good length of straight pipe before the MAF despite the lack of room due to where the SC inlet ended up. it has a modified HKS foam mushroom filter which I chose due to it's short length and the built in velocity stack to set up good laminar flow. The design also has a std MAF screen built in. dispite how well it seems to perform I'm designing a new intake mainly for appearance reasons and to reposition the intake for cooler air.
I'm still plagued by unknown problems. being my first SC install I don't know what "sounds" it should make and how to track down problems and how to get more out of the system. while I think I have solved all the leaks in my pipe work I have developed a fluttering boost problem and the boost has drop off a little. after the initial tune the boost was a rock solid 7psi maximum. now the boost wavers at high rpm and fluctuates between 5-7psi. this was the initial reason I went looking for leaks in the pipe work however after fixing the only leak I could find the boost flutter is still there.
I really need to sort this out before I start playing with smaller pulleys and more boost
luckily I didn't go nuts trying to calibrate the MAF or anything as I found a few issues they appeared top be MAF related but once resolved indicate the std calibration works well with my intake.
the main problem was a big leak in the silicone joiner attached to the compressor. it wasn't a very good fit and the hose clamps couldn't hold the seal. I replaced this expensive silicone hose with a bit of aluminum pipe and some cheep ebay silicone couplers and the leak is gone. The supercharger was blowing air out this leak and the MAF was reading exaggerated flows. my long term trims were around -9% and while I knew that's on the high side of acceptable, I thought I would allow the system to do what it thought was best instead of calibrating the MAF.
with the leak fixed my long term trims have dropped down to under -2%.
below is a picture of my intake being tested NA prior to boosted operation. I affectionately call it "the bugle" as it's shape like a trumpet. it ended up like this to get good flow across the MAF by allowing for a good length of straight pipe before the MAF despite the lack of room due to where the SC inlet ended up. it has a modified HKS foam mushroom filter which I chose due to it's short length and the built in velocity stack to set up good laminar flow. The design also has a std MAF screen built in. dispite how well it seems to perform I'm designing a new intake mainly for appearance reasons and to reposition the intake for cooler air.
I'm still plagued by unknown problems. being my first SC install I don't know what "sounds" it should make and how to track down problems and how to get more out of the system. while I think I have solved all the leaks in my pipe work I have developed a fluttering boost problem and the boost has drop off a little. after the initial tune the boost was a rock solid 7psi maximum. now the boost wavers at high rpm and fluctuates between 5-7psi. this was the initial reason I went looking for leaks in the pipe work however after fixing the only leak I could find the boost flutter is still there.
I really need to sort this out before I start playing with smaller pulleys and more boost
11-29-2008, 04:09 PM
#19
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I was thinking that the belt might be slipping but it is making any noise. I have also measured the superchargers input pulley and it is flowing the drive ratio and isn't dropping off up to 6000rpm however there still could be some slip @ 8000rpm
11-29-2008, 04:19 PM
#20
Can you get or make a cheap tach for the SC pulley? Then you can compare the engine speed to the pulley speed - and find out if the ratios change any up at redline...
I would do if I had an SC; a good way to know what is going on under the hood I would think.
I would do if I had an SC; a good way to know what is going on under the hood I would think.
11-29-2008, 04:24 PM
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great minds think alike :D
I have a dodgy little optical sensor hooked up to a data logger. seems to work ok but the installation is very lazy and messy.
I have a dodgy little optical sensor hooked up to a data logger. seems to work ok but the installation is very lazy and messy.
11-29-2008, 04:47 PM
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seems like my intercooler is doing ok:
compressor intake 48.7 Deg C (engine bay temp)
compressor outlet 88.2 Deg C
intake temp 28 Deg C (as it goes into the motor)
exhaust temp 829.3 Deg C
this is the highest I have seen so far and I didn't reach the redline. they are probably higher now since my trims have settled down and the mixtures are leaner than before.
compressor intake 48.7 Deg C (engine bay temp)
compressor outlet 88.2 Deg C
intake temp 28 Deg C (as it goes into the motor)
exhaust temp 829.3 Deg C
this is the highest I have seen so far and I didn't reach the redline. they are probably higher now since my trims have settled down and the mixtures are leaner than before.
01-02-2009, 06:22 AM
#24
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One of the things I like most about my setup is I don’t need a blow-off valve or bypass valve since my throttle is infront of the compressor. The std engine management works well and boost is controlled by how much throttle you run. You only get boost when the system gets enough throttle and isn’t in vacuum just like a turbo.
However here are some little issues that it creates that I would like to solve. Due to the long inlet length and BIG intercooler I have a huge intake manifold (plentum) volume. While my intake piping is quite short it is still a sizable volume between the throttle and motor. And then the enormous intercooler adds to that again! This leads to poor throttle response and what I think is the engine management reacting too quickly to the delay in air moment in the system. It’s fine when you’re in boost and things are happening fast but the transition and off boost response isn’t that great.
I roughly guestimate my current pipe work is about 5L in volume. The Big intercooler I run would be very similar in volume ~ 5L. so I’m adding about 10L to the 2-3L of the normal plentum volume.
To fix this I’m going to try a smaller intercooler. It is pain full to have to give up the beautiful A.R.E intercooler as it was doing a fantastic job. It would be perfect for a big boost turbo application since the throttle would be in the std location. It just isn’t right for this SC setup. I could have bought a smaller A.R.E cooler but unfortunately my budget is all but exhausted so I have resorted to penny pinching and saving money where I can.
I was searching for a secondhand xr6 intercooler when I came across a PWR intercooler core about the right size for what I had in mind 500 x 200mm. PWR is another Australian intercooler brand. They manufacture intercooler cores and also ready made intercoolers. They are good quality but like any design they have pros and cons that A.R.E go into detail about. PWR intercoolers are still about twice the price of the Chinese intercoolers on ebay so I was happy to find a core at a reasonable price. While it's taking lots of time to piece the intercooler together at least I'm in control of the outcome. the cooler will end up costing as much as a ebay brand intercooler but will be way better quality.
This smaller core will allow me to mount the intercooler further back closer to the radiator shortening the pipe work, reducing the piping volume and also reduce the intercooler volume. To reduce the piping volume I’m going to use smaller diameter pipe work. My compressor outlet is 2”. Currently my pipe work is 2” to the A.R.E cooler and changes to 2.5 for the last 10cm to match the A.R.E inlet. The new intercooler will be 2” for both inlet and outlet. Where I currently run 2.5” from the outlet past the anti-roll bar it will now be 2” also. Where I used to have 3” pipe I will use 2.5” and transition it to match the manifold just before the plastic. I estimate the new setup will almost ½ the volume while retaining 55% of the cooling area of the large 605x310 core I currently run.
here is a rough comparison between the core sizes. the white line indicates the extent of the current intercooler. hidden by the front crash beam. the the black line is the size of the new core (ignore the vertical black line it was just a rough center line).
I've got a number of tricks up my sleeve to retain good cooling and performance from this small core
However here are some little issues that it creates that I would like to solve. Due to the long inlet length and BIG intercooler I have a huge intake manifold (plentum) volume. While my intake piping is quite short it is still a sizable volume between the throttle and motor. And then the enormous intercooler adds to that again! This leads to poor throttle response and what I think is the engine management reacting too quickly to the delay in air moment in the system. It’s fine when you’re in boost and things are happening fast but the transition and off boost response isn’t that great.
I roughly guestimate my current pipe work is about 5L in volume. The Big intercooler I run would be very similar in volume ~ 5L. so I’m adding about 10L to the 2-3L of the normal plentum volume.
To fix this I’m going to try a smaller intercooler. It is pain full to have to give up the beautiful A.R.E intercooler as it was doing a fantastic job. It would be perfect for a big boost turbo application since the throttle would be in the std location. It just isn’t right for this SC setup. I could have bought a smaller A.R.E cooler but unfortunately my budget is all but exhausted so I have resorted to penny pinching and saving money where I can.
I was searching for a secondhand xr6 intercooler when I came across a PWR intercooler core about the right size for what I had in mind 500 x 200mm. PWR is another Australian intercooler brand. They manufacture intercooler cores and also ready made intercoolers. They are good quality but like any design they have pros and cons that A.R.E go into detail about. PWR intercoolers are still about twice the price of the Chinese intercoolers on ebay so I was happy to find a core at a reasonable price. While it's taking lots of time to piece the intercooler together at least I'm in control of the outcome. the cooler will end up costing as much as a ebay brand intercooler but will be way better quality.
This smaller core will allow me to mount the intercooler further back closer to the radiator shortening the pipe work, reducing the piping volume and also reduce the intercooler volume. To reduce the piping volume I’m going to use smaller diameter pipe work. My compressor outlet is 2”. Currently my pipe work is 2” to the A.R.E cooler and changes to 2.5 for the last 10cm to match the A.R.E inlet. The new intercooler will be 2” for both inlet and outlet. Where I currently run 2.5” from the outlet past the anti-roll bar it will now be 2” also. Where I used to have 3” pipe I will use 2.5” and transition it to match the manifold just before the plastic. I estimate the new setup will almost ½ the volume while retaining 55% of the cooling area of the large 605x310 core I currently run.
here is a rough comparison between the core sizes. the white line indicates the extent of the current intercooler. hidden by the front crash beam. the the black line is the size of the new core (ignore the vertical black line it was just a rough center line).
I've got a number of tricks up my sleeve to retain good cooling and performance from this small core
Last edited by rotarenvy; 01-02-2009 at 05:10 PM.
01-02-2009, 01:42 PM
#25
hope that works for you - although I don't really see how reducing volume before the compressor will affect throttle response . If you had a big volume after the compressor I would think that would be more problematic ...
where is the pic of the SC for us ?
Also 829C seems very low for exhaust temp where do you measure it ?
I regularly see 940 - 950 at WOT just after turbo .
where is the pic of the SC for us ?
Also 829C seems very low for exhaust temp where do you measure it ?
I regularly see 940 - 950 at WOT just after turbo .
Last edited by Brettus; 01-02-2009 at 01:45 PM.