timbo

No, all the leg work does is enable you to see which version of the ECU software you have installed. If you have the latest "L" version, you will be rewarded for your leg work by the oil pressure needle swinging from low to half and then back to low.

Hymee is trying to 'read' the version data with his kit, but I guess Mazda's data protocol is difficult to unscramble.

timbo

… the leg work won't tune the 8, but it will be good for your cycling, taka

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

Taka,

I know why my post was so hard to understand. I wrote the work "can" when I meant to write "can't". I have fixed it now. Sorry to confuse you :p.

There is a big difference between "Tuning", "Reflashing" and "Resetting".

Resetting (the leg jobby thing) is just clearing some "learned" settings, which basically equate to fuel trims that keep you cars AFR's as a pre-determined level. The computer will re-learn them with time.

Reflashing is the process where the dealer connects to the car via the diagnostic connector and replaces the contents of the computer with a new calibration. Essentially think of this as the fuel and spark tables. It could also incorportate "bug fixes" in the firmware.

Tuning is where an experienced guru makes adjustments to various things related to the "calibration" to get optimal performance. In the RX-8's case this is currently done using a Piggy Back controller. In the old days it was done by making adjustments to the distributor carburettor. These days it can be done electronically via various methids. Tuning can also be where an inexperienced tosser makes adjustments and causes the engine to lunch itself because he didn't know what he was doing. I suppose that is de-tuning

Cheers,
Hymee

takahashi

If I may ask another question, as I don't understand fuel and spark tables :p (Hymee thinks: dumb kid) :p, as the dealer can stick a diagnostic connector and replaces the contents of the ECU... what limitation do they have with that procedure that only a piggy back can do?

Kas

i'm happy with the way my car is running at the moment. Will the leg thingy make any noticable change to the car as in how it reacts/preforms until it re-learns what it resets?

make sense?

timbo

Actually, there's two 'leggy' things being talked about here.

The one mentioned earlier in this thread, with the extract from the TSB, is simply to test which version of the ECU calibration software you have. To do this, you turn the ignition on, pump the brake 20 time in 8 secs, and if you have the latest "L" calibration software, the oil pressure needle will swing back and forwards.

A "Reset" involves, as I recall, disconnecting the battery and removing any residual charge by pumping the brake. This resets the fuel trims, as Hymee mentions, plus radio presets and trip odometers. Note, there is a special procedure set out in the manual when you restart to ensure the DSC/ABS etc is properly restarted/calibrated.

I did the version check yesterday, after having my belated 20K service last week where I know the WDS was attached. My ECU is still not the "L" version.

BVD

Isn't it the case that the reflashes mentioned refer only to US spec cars?

We may have the same basic hardware, but if the original software is different to ours (which apparently it is) then surely the reflashes would not work correctly on our cars anyway?

I thought that reflashes generally only made amendments to certain lines of code, rather than did complete replacements. No?

Certainly, in general computing you can screw things up by applying the wrong flash as it can replace the wrong lines of code. I.e. the same line number may refer to completely different instructions, depending on the version.

Isn't this a case of Mazda making changes to the US maps and specs, that were different in our cars anyway? Wouldn't any flashes or 'patches' need to be Aussie specific, or we'd end up with a similar - or possibly worse - experience to fitting Canzoomer's original piggyback box. No?

timbo

BVD,

Agree with you in principle (and please don't tell me how one can stuff up a program through misplaced code -- there are legends… ), but according to the information earlier in this thread, sourced from Canzoomer, there have been three ECU flashes released relating to the Australian ECU. Unfortunately, no-one, including especially Oz Mazda dealers (!) has any more information on when these are applied. They may just relate to a specific MIL fault condition, or they may be general.

But it is certainly more than conceivable that Mazda could be offering different 'tunes' through these flashes, without any damage. So you could have, for eg, an economy tune or a performance tune -- perhaps even a climate based tune.

You are absolutely correct it is important to have flashes that specifically relate to the Australian model, but we know no more than that at this stage.

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

I am just about to take laptop out to car and try to get some more bytes of that CalID I mentioned earlier.

I thought the leggy thing was also a NVRAM reset, meaning it cleared all the trims etc, same as a "reset"

WRT to Taka's Q on piggy backs etc...

A piggy back like the CZ unit basically (in laymans terms) making % ajustments to fuel/spark. So the "tune" in the piggy back is specific to the tune in the PCM. If you have your PCM reflashed, and the fuel/spark tables are different than the piggy back is expecting, you will get less than optimal results. All these different PCM calibrations could be a nightmare to manage from the piggy-back point of view.

Fuel and Spark tables... Again a simple explanation. The computer looks at various imputs from sensors on the engine, and for certain conditions (e.g. RPM, Throttle, Air Flow ,... ,...) it looks up a table to see how much fuel to pump in on the next injector pulse, and when to fire the spark plugs. The piggy back essentially tricks the computer to look up a different part of the table, to get a more desirable fuel dose. I believe the spark on the CZ style unit is controlled directly by the piggy back (i.e. on the output), whereas the fuel is still controlled by PCM.

I believe the Ric Shaw unit controls the fuel directly as well as the spark.

Cheers,
Hymee.

timbo

You can see some details and photos of Ric Shaw's unit in this thread Ric Shaw unit

timbo

OK, here's the deal as far as I can find out, officially, in Australia

I spoke with the Service Manager at my dealer today about ECU update flashes. He was very open with me and said he had not heard anything, but promised to call MA and get back to me, which he did do, in under 2 hours.

He said Mazda Australia told him there had been 'a couple' of updates issued, and that these were available to Mazda dealers through the WDS. MA is not making any claims about performance or economy issues, just that these are 'updates'.

I will be getting mine in about 3 weeks, when I already had the car booked in for a new trunk seal.

So, my advice -- ask, and help them help themselves!

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

I went to my trusted dealer yesterday, and talked to my main man. We got the WDS out to check the cal in the car. The Calibration ID for my vehicle is:

N3J6-18881-E

(I got the first 3 digits correct with my Hymee Special Scan Tool! - but I got some more work to do to get the rest of the message...)

My car is a July '03 build (22nd from memory). The WDS gets updated monthly via a CD that is sent to the dealers. My man assured me his WDS was up-to-date.

The WDS reported the above calibration ID, and also that this was up to date, and did not require a new calibration to be flashed to the PCM.

Anyone else want to get theirs checked so we can start our own database of cals for Aussy cars. Since I think my car was probably on the seconds boat load from Japan, I find it difficult to believe that there are 3 different calibrations for the Australian RX-8's unless of course we count Manual/Auto, and if there was a difference between leather and cloth packs.

When I get some more work done on my cal tool, I can bring it to get togethers so we can check out others cars without having to hassle the dealer. I'll make sure I bring it to Wakefield, and the next SE Qld cruise.

Cheers,
Hymee.

timbo

I'll have that info after 26/3 -- if nothing else, we can see if there is any butt-based performance difference at the Wakefield track day, and maybe you can interrogate mine with your laptop.

Lock & Load

I suppose if forum members go to mazda dealerships and conduct their own Ecu tests on 2004 delivered RX8 , then we might find out if their ECU have been updated .

Testing procedure is as follows :

1. Turn ignition switch to"ON" position , but do not start engine .
2. Depress and release brake pedal at least 20 times within an 8 second period.

If the oil pressure indicator does not move that means they have not been re-flashed with the"L" flash .

I will be going to my dealer on monday to carry out the test on some showroom RX8'S .

Cheers
michael

RXE16T

I'm sure all the sales guys are gonna love that!

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

My point is that there is not a newer "flash" available for the Australian cars, otherwise the WDS would have said so. (Assuming the WDS has the latest updates. I will check regularly)

And the leg shake thingy doesn't tell us which calibration version you have.

I mearly indicates at least "L", but when "M" or later comes out, how would you know which one you had? And for those with a -ve on the leg pump test, what version do you have before "L"??

So when your finished at your dealer, will you know exactly what cal is in those cars? Only if they plug the WDS in and have a look. Or you use a CAN compliant OBDII scan tool, like what I am working on.

Note - my Cal was "E" which is a long way from "L". I think there is a lot more to this.

Cheers,
Hymee.

sco

Post of the day goes to Hymee.

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

Thank you. Thank you very much.

I assume you meant 2 posts? (He said cheekily )

Actually I saw you were on line, and I was hoping you would see this one, knowing you would like and appreciate the info.

Cheers,
Hymee.

Gomez

L&L, save your leg....my car came in on the last shipment, (in dock on 20Feb04), and it hasn't got the "L" cal...

Gomez.

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

But I will gladly pass on the post of the day award if you can tell which cal it has got!

Cheers,
Hymee.

timbo

The thing is -- a typical problem with Mazda Australia -- that we have two different sets of information, both of which might be correct. My dealer says, after prompting, there is an update. Hymee's says his is current. But reading the US threads, the updates are only provided there if someone a MIL warning or complains about fuel consumption.

Actually, as a software guy, I understand this. Both are 'current', with one being applied under specific scenarios

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

But...

If there was any update available on the WDS my car was plugged into, then it would have said so... Yeah?

Cheers,
Hymee.

timbo

No, I don't think so -- I think it may be an update that needs to be identified and selected, perhaps based on fault report or some override. I guess all will be revealed on 26th, unless anyone does it earlier

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

I just was re-reading this, and noticed this, and it didn't ocurr to me at the time to check against my findings.

My car has N3J6-18881-E

Also, I posted somewhere about a prize for finding out what cal is in your car (without using WDS or a scan tool). My PCM has a sticker on it with the N3J6-18881-E number on it. The problem with that is if the dealer flashes them with an update, do they bother putting a new sticker on? Probably not. This method is not applicable to claim the prize.

Cheers,
Hymee.

Kas

where is the pcm/ecu located ? i never even looked