Hymee

iTrader: (1)

Joe,

Good stuff - that will be interesting info.

NT Rotor Head - Lovely new sig I see there. For you efforts, you have been awarded the first ever "quadruple posts" award. Now - where is the admin option gone....

Cheers,
Hymee.

rotarenvy

think it's funny everyone making such a fuss over a reflash. I haven't had one done but I might have the latest as I tried the scratch thing and there was no needle swing? I figured the reset couldn't hurt as eveyone I have let drive the car has stalled it heaps

anyway The way I look at it, the car is running fine, no idle problems, no acceleration probs. none. so why do I need a flash? the change will be something I'm not feeling and probably wont feel so why bother untill the next service. if it was a problem mazda would be calling everyone that needed it. if you don't need it right away why should mazda bother you with something that can wait till next service?

then there is the situation where people are demanding the latest flash. what makes you so sure you should use it on your car? because it it the latest and suposedly greatest? there are lots of situations in the software world where people run the older drivers for better performance. you could be getting better fuel economy at the expense of power that the butt dyno dosn't notice.

untill a service guy plugs his data gathering thing-a-me-ging into the car and it flags a need to change the flash I will not get the flash done.

takahashi

The bottom line --- no one bloody knows.
No conclusive evidance.
No satistical significant.

No proof!
Or someone tells me I am wrong.

There is a feel good factor of getting a latest flash. At least Hymee and L&L are happy to leap from the "D"s

p.s. I have a "F" but I never be happier :D ~~~~

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

Taka - I never had a "D".

I don't claim to have provided the "proof", but I published as good as I could measure.

Cheers,
Hymee.

timbo

Taka, I disagree.

The data Hymee has produced enables one to make a conclusion about the likely value of the G flash to other 8s, at least of the same or earlier VINs and with earlier calibrations.

And Hymee's data is statistically significant. OK, sure for complete accuracy we need a standard sample of cars, but in terms of the testing Hymee did on his car previously and with the re-flash, the methodology is as sound as we are going to get.

As to whether one should or one shouldn't, we are now in the realm of cars where tuning is dominated by software code. That code can contain bugs or, as is often the case, be less than optimal either in terms of its inherent efficiency, or as it relates to data feedback on driving conditions, environment, fuel and other inputs. "Good" software engineers will always try to improve their code as they obtain greater knowledge about all these factors. For these reasons, I expect we will see many more such revisions, each one of which should 'improve' the tune and driveability. Subject, of course, to the law of diminishing returns.

Short answer: you have bought another computer which relies on software; that software will be updated from time to time for sound reasons, to the benefit of owners. You should therefore keep your software up to date if you want to obtain the best from the car. The problem is that the automotive industry itself hasn't come to grips with this issue, how to distribute updates, and also how to communicate with owners about them.

Hmm, do I sense a consultancy opportunity?? :p

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

Good post Timbo.

I'm think the "other" thread has served it's life, and I will probably close it down soon. Just need to let my finger cool off

Cheers,
Hymee.

labrat

I think Taka is confusing reproducibility with repeatability. Obviously, I'd be happier if the work had have been done immediately before and after re-flash, but at least you have an experienced operator using the same piece of equipment! It looks like the re-flash has made measurable improvement.

Hymee, I've got my car coming up for service in a few weeks at GP Mazda Aspley. Who's the tech to talk to about the re-flash? Did you have to pay extra for it?

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

Labrat,

I paid no money that visit. But I am a repeate customer for new cars and service, so I suppose one could argue that I pay for it along the way somewhere (Like when the invoice has "1.5 Workshop Consumables" on it .

The RX-8 specialist tech's name is Robbie. But I always approach the service manager first (Joseph). I went in before the boys offically "clocked on" so effectively robbie did it for me in his own time. But he did tell me he always checks the RX-8's when they get serviced. So I think is would be OK just to get it noted on the job sheet if you book it in via the "front desk".

At my last service one the persons behind the front desk told me my car had been filled with Castrol Synthetic oil. When I checked with the workshop foreman, he gave me the bottle of Mazda Rotary Oil they used to fill my car, and told me to keep the remainder for top ups.

Cheers,
Hymee.

skc

I had my new flash put in today. I was told that there should be changes in fuel efficency and perfomance.

If there is any change in perfomance then it is only very slight as I did not see any immediate change.

The way the fuel prices are at the moment I will appreciate any fuel economy measures.

So overall, making a 20 minute pitstop on the way to work for a free update is worthwhile.

skc

timbo

I wonder whether the reflashed ECU has to 're-learn' driving styles and conditions after each update. Seems logical to me that it does, so the effects may not be immediate.

takahashi

Did they tell you which flash you were and which one are you now?

Interesting... I must call up for my 10K service soon

skc

Unfortunately I did not find out what flash I had on originally. I was busy on the phone with a client while the update was taking place. I went to the same dealer as Hymee. Therefore they would have updated with the new G ? flash.

skc

rexi

Hymee,
Would you be able to gragh your AFR,s of your original E and new G flash so that we can visualise the changes.
I wonder whether by going leaner in the sub 4000rpm range whether they have slightly retarded timing in that range also to prevent any possibility of detonation ;ike they seem to have done with the latest American M flash?

Regards
Rexi

Pappy

Ok - got the "G" flash today from John Newell Mazda (no charge - under warranty). Confirmed with the brake & oil pressure sweep.

So in a matter of weeks I've gone from "D" to "E" to "G".

The most dramatic change was from "D" to "E" - the car's character became even smoother, especially during shift changes in the manual.

Initial impressions with the "G" are that it definitely appears to start quicker, on the first crank - Timbo mentioned this also. There appears to be better performance when starting off and from there it is very linear. The impression I get is that there is less rolling resistance now in the car and hence it feels heaps more responsive - anyway the car is even more enjoyable now. One thing I know for sure, the "D" version must have been full of compromises.

Pappy.

sco

Pappy - sounds like a similar experience to mine.

As Hymee has said (probably on this thread) we'll probably see a diminishing amount of improvement in each new flash because the room for improvement will reduce each time improvements are made.

Pappy

Sco - just took the 8 for a drive this evening - I'm impressed that the software upgrades have made such a difference. I don't know if guys with "F" will realise any difference, but anyone on "D" will find it an amazing change.

Pappy.

Gomez

Hymee, you haven't had a "F" car on the dyno yet, have you??
Or driven an "F" flash back to back with a D/E??
Has anyone?

Gomez.

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

No I haven't, and I have never had an "F" to test. My car went from E to G.

Cheers,
Hymee.

Lock & Load

Hymee

Your car being an E would account for the faster times you posted when we did the AFR TESTS ON OUR CARS AS AT THAT TIME MY CAR WAS ONLY THE D FLASH ( mystery solved ).

cheers
michael

takahashi

Agree L&L....

the question is G is better than E ... maybe slightly. No one knows the different b/n F and G yet?

Taka

emack

Just had the "G" installed. "Gee" (Sorry I just had to!) improvements are now in very small increments.

Initial impressions are that it is smoother throughout the rev range, and appears to be a little gruntier down low! The way I drive, I won't notice the rumoured mileage increase

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

Hmmm - I thought we knew that fact way back when we did the testing, or shortly thereafter? We all have known your car was "D" and mine was "E" for friggin ages. Sorry to burst your bubble, but that is no mystery.

Cheers,
Hymee.

JoeB

Well after spending 20 mins writing up my initial reply, I lost it all, so to summarise since upgrade to G code yesterday:

Slight increse in torque at lower rev range (Hymees exhaust is quieter on part throttle)

A more linear response from throttle movement as oppossed to a "Burst" effect previously.

Effortless take offs now with decreased throttle depression.

To soon to comment on any fuel cost savings.

John (Service Manager) Rockdale Mazda (SYDNEY) is happy to perform upgrade for you (no charge as upgrade is covered under warranty).

Joe

AMG

L&L, seems you got ripped off!

timbo

....again. But then, if you do roar.....!