I made mention of my recent trouble in the thread on bad coils, but thought it worthwhile to make a new thread on what happened.

The background: Had the car serviced for a 90,000km/6 month service (at 82,000km last Thursday week. Car running sweetly. Started the car last Saturday, only one rotor firing. Called RACQ (motoring club for non-aussies), confirmed nothing obviously wrong, arranged for tow to Mazda dealer. Car left at dealer on Monday.
What happened: After 3 days, the mechanic determined that the oxygen sensor on the offending rotor was defect, as was a coil. Further, leading plugs had not been replaced on a previous recall (the "hard start" recall). Further, both trailing plugs were determined to be severely fouled (probably due to the troubles) and were replaced too. It was reported that the rotor at fault had been running lean. I'll leave it to people who know about these things to speculate in what order and for what reason(s) the components failed.

The (financial) damage: a total of $1453. In totting up the bill, it seemed to be only for parts, with little or no labour component. Clearly identified was the coil ($128.30 and the O2 sensor ($797.41) with another $231 for all the other stuff. I'm assuming that dealer price for a couple of plugs would be around this much. There's GST too, of course.

The dealer made application to Mazda Australia for assistance, but this was denied. According to the dealer, the reasons stated by MA were "age of car" and "nature of repairs".

Summing up: The dealer (Grand Prix Mazda Aspley) came out of it OK. It was nice that they waived the labour. It was explained to me that the problem was quite complex, because two components failed at the same time. There was some concern for a while that the PCM had failed too. I guess you could argue that the dealer made a fair whack out of the parts, but all in all, I would say that the acted well in trying to keep me as a customer.

Mazda Australia came out of it less well. They did assist the mechanic with technical help, but refusal to help financially makes them look short-sighted and mean. The arguments that I shall put to them are:
- Us early-adopters (mine was in the first batch imported to Oz) have provided Mazda with invaluable product improvement information, while suffering through a number of congenital faults and product recalls.
- Failure of an O2 sensor at 80,000km (50,000miles) is about half of the anticipated service life.
- Catastrophic failure of a number of components seemingly at the one time leading to such a large repair bill in a car which has been carefully driven (never been thrashed, never been on a track) and maintained at every possible service at the one dealership is not acceptable.
OK, the car is now nearly 5 years old (how time flys!), but at only 80,000km?

Obviously, my experiences will be part of the decision-making process when I come to choose a new car. I certainly think that these days a 3 year warranty is insufficient. Mazda is certainly not at the top of the tree where product quality is concerned. If I were to choose between accessories and an extended warranty at the time of purchase, it would be the latter. I would probably take out an extended warranty insurance not through the dealer or the manufacturer/importer. I know it's going to be tough trying to get my wife to agree to another Mazda after this.

I've read the experiences of other forum members in their approaches to Mazda Australia and their lack of success. Perhaps I'll take another approach, modelling it on the saying "revenge is a dish best eaten cold".

 

Labrat, I'm very sorry to see you go all through these hassles mate. The good thing is they have at least identified the problem, and Grand Prix are doing their best to look after you.

It does raise a couple of questions....how did the car go under the radar for so long after the hard start recall. I wonder if it also had a detrimental effect on the oxygen sensor or the coil breaking down.

Mazda Australia are on the downhill slope when it comes to looking after problems which seem to stem from recall or dud import issues, and their silence on this issue is deafening.

As Revolver put it nicely the other day, your 'revenge' could be as sweet as walking out the door...but I hope you stay long enough to see through the Nats.

 

Again I am also sorry to hear of your issue.

A Mazda dealer makes about 30-35% on parts they have to buy in daily from MA. In other words parts they do not usually keep on their shelves and or buy from Mazda as a stock order where they can make up to 55-60%.
Looking it from MA's point of view your dis-qualifier is the Time, nearly 5 years when there warranty policy is 3.
IMO the dealer did do the right thing by you by not charging labour.
Perhaps they could of gone harder at MA.

Recalls on any brand of car does not make it a dud, hell many owners here who have owned other brands have had way more recalls or warranty issues.
I can only think of the recent JD Power survey done here in Australia for the first time which ranked Mazda #1.

Is this your first major out of pocket expense? apart from servicing cost, if it is then I think you have done OK.

While I agree MA are ripping us off with parts pricing and their new car prices, so are ALL the other car manufacturers.
Gee $800 buck for an oxygen sensor...WOW..what are they made of platinum.

Try servicing a BMW or Merc or Porsche for a real shock!

 

Most RX8 owners have allways taken the position that as long as all the problems were on someone elses cars and not their own it wasnt their fight , as we are seeing these problems are occuring to all the RX8 .

UNITED WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL , from the onset i have tried to get Mazda to stand up and be counted on this cars weaknesses , but very few owners were prepared to back me up now they are paying the price for their silence .

 

From my recollection, all plugs were replaced at the big 60,000km service. I also thought that the leading plugs had been replaced under the hard start recall. Perhaps it might have been the Mazda dealer's way of lessening the pain.

Truly, I'm not a track type of person. I haven't a sporting/competitive bone in my body. However, I might drop out to say hello just to meet some of you guys after all these years.

 

Actually, they do have platinum in them. See the linked Wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen_sensor. Probably the amount of Pt is only a few bucks worth. You can see from the article that there are other types too, although the Pt type is most likely installed in the RX-8. There are apparently two O2 sensors in the RX-8, one for each rotor. According to the dealer, mine had been running too lean, but this type of failure runs counter to the article.

Regardless of the failure mode, at half the anticipated service life, this comes periously close to the bottom end of the bell curve. I have always used 95+ RON fuel, always from good fuel outlets, and never used fuel additives.

As for spare parts pricing, let's compare what the parts cost in the USA (prices from OnlineMazdaParts.com). To be generous, I have calculated AUD from USD at an exchange rate of 0.90 instead of 0.95 to allow for inferior credit card currency exchange rates, and I'm using the US RRP instead of the discount price:

O2 sensor: Oz = $797.41, USA = $340
Coil: Oz = $128.30, USA = $38

I accept that it might be a good idea to purchase a set of coils, but do you think it a good idea to purchase an O2 sensor as well? My Mazda delaer probably wouldn't install one that I've bought elsewhere. What happens if I go to a rotary specialist? Are they able to re-program the ECU correctly if that is what is required?

 

Labrat's experience gives the lie to those smartarse service managers who disclaim any responsibility for these kind of problems by smirking that you've probably been thrashing it (in other words, what did you expect?!).

I have no doubt from the tenor of his posts over the years that he is indeed a conservative driver and has looked after the car well. I think that kind of care should be rewarded by trouble-free motoring - not $1K plus unscheduled repair bills.

Maybe we've gotten used to the idea that cars should last longer than 5 years before suffering expensive parts failures? Are we expecting too much from this relatively cheap car? Is it our fault for not moving it on before it hits 5 years or 100K? Is it just the cost of owning something unique? Do all enthusiasts who buy something a bit quicker than a Camry suffer this kind of reliability problem? Do the 6 MPS and 3 MPS suffer from drivetrain problems?

Mazda love to claim that they've been developing the rotary for over 40 years. When are they going to make it a reliable longterm prospect? Or are we just hearing about a minority of problems and 95% of owners have never experienced any trouble whatsoever? Will the next version of the Renesis (due 2011) be worth buying? Or are we just going to self-fund more holes in their development budget? Would we have less hassles buying another marque?

Lots of questions which we'll never get a satisfactory answer to. I still love driving my car when it's all tickety-boo - had a very fun blast this morning as a matter of fact - but the gloss is wearing off for a number of owners I think. It's one thing suffering reliability issues in a cheap old RX3, etc. I think it's almost a badge of honour among the rotary faithful (suffering for your fun, etc, etc). But its quite another from a $60K brand new model - especially for those of us who don't intend to spend our weekends twirling spanners and ordering cheaper parts over the internet to justify the thing's continued existence in the garage. I'd rather be driving!

 

OK, the RX-8 is different, but it's not THAT different. It still has an internal combustion engine, and all the bits that hang off it to make it go are the same on any up and down piston car. I don't think that 5 years and 80,000km is an old car - I had my previous car, a Toyota Celica for 12 years, and the only things I replaced were the normal bits that wore out - brakes, clutch, shockers and front end. We're not back in the 1950's where 5 years really was an old car.

 

Yep, that's the way I tend to see things too but I thought I'd see what others have to say about the queries I raised. One more - was it just under-engineered in the rush to get it to market at a competitive price (given they couldn't sell the FD at $80K)?

 

Lab', sorry to hear your pain. As for if they would install the parts if they were imported, as you are out of warranty, they have no right to refuse a part you want on your car. Also, the parts have exactly the same part #'s on them so there is nothing to say you hadnt bought the part in Aus from another dealer.

In fact I am appaled that, even though they waived labour costs, they still charged you full price on parts.

 

Michael's mate in the US (Mazda Dealer) who supplies AU Club members is the guy to contact...as far as the O2 Sensor ( or any Mazda Parts)...if the Part Numbers are the same then it is OK buy and fit the part from a US Dealer onto an AU Spec car.

 

Labby, I have just found out this from the Australian Design Rules

Section 8.2. (A 250 page 5 Meg Document)...Page 34

Conformity of in-service vehicles

With reference to type approvals granted for emissions, these measures shall also be appropriate for confirming the functionality of the emission control devices during the normal useful life of the vehicles under normal conditions of use (conformity of in-service vehicles properly maintained and used). For the purpose of this Regulation these measures shall be checked for a period of up to 5 years of age or 80,000 km, whichever is the sooner, and from 1 January 2005, for a period of up to five years of age or 100,000 km, whichever is the sooner.

So it looks like even from an ADR or Legal point of view if your car is over 80K the manuafcturer obligation's have expired.

However, what is interesting for other forum members is that from Jan 1 2005, that regulation period is still the 5 years but now 100K.

What I need to find out is who is responsible for the vehicle to remain with the ADR's emission regulation.

The owner or the manufacturer...

http://www.frli.gov.au/ComLaw/Legisl...A?OpenDocument

 

But do the dates apply to manufacturer date or date of purchase?

EDIT: Actually, re-reading that isnt it only talking about an obligation to check it to make sure it complies? There is nothing there that talks towards ownus to fix anything if it doesnt comply?

 

Yes I have emailed the Commonwealth Law website to see IF
this can be clarified. I would have thought the time periods would be from the date of sale as the ADR refers to "normal use".
So a car is not used "normally" until it is sold...