Lock & Load

As they say you live and learn .

A thought occured to me that the early adaptees of any car , always take the biggest risks and do most of the real world selling of the manufacturers product for no real reward other than being the first kid on the block with a new product.

If i purchase another newly released car i was wondering wether inserting a clause in the sale contract specifieng that the dealer would automatically install free of charge any new upgrade of the ECU , and would be obliged to notify the purchaser of any upgrade as soon as they became available .

This hopefully would give the early adoptees a chance to get the latest and improved software for their cars .

I personally feel the price paid for being one of the first buyer of any car , is not worth the anguish and worry that we have to go thru about the bonafides of the car , knowing that later models would have lot of the original bugs ironed out.

What do you guys think???? Is it worth being an early adaptee of any car manufacturer .

I feel that i have been an unpaid ambassodor for a manufacturer that has not really been gratefull for the buyers who pre-ordered and took the biggest risks and who uses their product to get the public recognition for their cars.

To charge for ECU upgrades on the car IMOH is an insult to the pre-order customers .

cheers
michael

timbo

Huh?!!

Who has paid for their ECU reflash?

I certainly didn't for the last one, and won't for the next one.

I also won't use the word 'upgrade'. It surely must have been released to fix 'bugs' otherwise (as a software guy) they would be writing to us and telling us about all its features and benefits, especially the extra #kw!!

I am an early adopter for many technologies. If it involves software and there are obvious flaws and bugs, I refuse to pay for any new release which simply fixes (some of) those bugs. Nor should anyone else! :angry:

Timbo

takahashi

ehhh I think L&L has paid $60 for his first upgrade, right?

I think this is a joke to upgrade ECU --- not just once but so many times.

You will think that they have fix the problem with one upgrade rather than mutiple. Or each car is so individualized to be tune in so many different way!

I am with you and feel your thrustration there L&L!

AMG

Taka, not so silly, anything software based can be refined.

Microsoft windows has endless upgrades, my dental software has also various patches done each year. After all humans do these jobs and human design can always be improved.

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

Micheal,

Welcome to the bleeding edge

Cheers,
Hymee (Founder of the $0 RX-8 bug-fix club)

BTW - What if you had a custom tuned PCM, or a piggy-back tuned to your car and you went to the dealer and they gave you the latest re-flash for free without even asking you - totally obliterating your custom tune, or rendering the piggy-back useless?? Food for thought.

Gomez

Taka, as I recall, L&L paid $66......

Lock & Load

TAKA , TIMBO

Yes i was a bunny for paying $66.00 for the first ECU upgrade id payed for the privilidge of not driving to springwood , but getting the re-flash at the southport branch on the Goldcoast .

I bought the car at Springwood so consequently Goldcoast mazda did not feel i should get it for free , however since i have had my 20,000km service at Goldcoast . oneweek prior to therelease of the F AND G upgrade it will be interesting to see if they try and charge me when i go in on monday .

Maybe a collective letter by forum members to MAZDA head office , will change this policy on the so called upgrades .

Timbo
I agree with you its not an upgrade but a fix to problems related to the early cars .

United we stand divided we fall , SO LETS ORGANIZE THE ROTARY UPGRADE REVOLUTION .

I realise some members will not want to upset mazda as in the past they have turned the other cheek but personally i dont like being F#$%ED up the *** .

cheers
michael

takahashi

Damn with your memory you should do medicine!

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

Micheal,

You didn't miss out on the F at all. It was never in the WDS AFAIK.

Michael, if you are so adamant about getting it for free, why don't you simply report the "problems related to the early cars" on your car? Then, they have some Mazda Australia compliant reason to do the 15 minute job.

I'm not really sure why people expect that they can just waltz in and demand the upgrade for the sake of it.

Cheers,
Hymee.

Lock & Load

HYMEE
I want my car to run in the best manner it can , so if by getting the latest flashes will give me better mileage better idling proper air fuel ratios ,so be it

I did not spend $ 65,000 not to have a car without the latest computer re-flashes on the system . A 1 year old car should not be behind in its software programs .

why should customers wait in between services to get theirs cars running more efficiently .

We should be notyfied and told what these upgrades are all about and be given the option to upgrade .

Hymee i am starting to think you must be on the Mazda payroll constantly defending a company that has been caught out a number of times doing the wrong by its customers .

Mazda can do no wrong in your eyes .

cheers
michael

Lock & Load

HYMEE

Arent you the one who initially posted about getting the latest F AND G flashes , from your dealer and arent you the one who constantly measures his car for increases in power and better AFR RATIOS ???? etc

Every owner who has purchased the RX8 HAS THE right to have their cars running at an optimmun level not only a few who are in the know .

CHEERS
MICHAEL

AMG

Michael, do you own a computer?

If so, is all your software of the latest versions?

get with it mate, you should be grateful that Mazda is developing their cars constantly and offering you upgrades.

Try getting that type of service from Holden.

how do you react when something you buy gets superseded?

Lock & Load

AMG

My computer hasnt got the latest upgrades but , iam not going to compare my computer to my car .

I did not pay $ 65,000 for my computer , and i dont care about the performance , and handling of my computer but i do care about my car .

Upgrades should be available to all owners. especially if it effects the cars functions .

Mazda refuses to tell us what these fixes do , but as timbo said they are not upgrades but fixes to a underlieng problem ???

Maybe mazda is desperately tryng to give us the car with 184kw that we were told about in the beggining ???

The best figures to date on a dyno have been 225 hp , i still believe the RX8 is underpowered producing more like 165kw instead of 177kw as advertised .

Maybe your computer is more important to you but i use my computer and I DONT DRIVE IT .
CHEERS
MICHAEL

takahashi

Hmmmm think of it that way I think Arthur AMG is right.

Why not have a company that continue modified and admit that mistake --- better than Holden that never thought about their problem with the power steering hose until 2 years later.

At least Mazda Australia via Japan getting more flash. I wonder how they come about getting more ECU flash. Do Mazda Japan getting informaton from our cars and develop a flash that suits Australia?

The last thing I want is that Mazda just checking our car and make sure that the emission rate is legal --- if not "upgrade" our ECU to make it so. You see. ... could be a conspiracy.

Choppy

Lock & Load,

If mazda starts sending out letters to all the new rx8 owners out there to take the rx8 back for upgrades this and that every few months etc it will look like the car has MAJOR problems.

Real life situation
'Hey Phil, were is the 8..'

'Its at Mazda service department'

'Dame its in there alot, whats wrong with it'

'Just getting upgrades done to the ecu'

'Oh right' ( No idea face )

---------

Also dont forget that mazda has many other cars that are more profitable and sell like hot cakes and the servies to these are important because they will not be for free.

Dont believe mazda service centers would put on more staff to support upgrades for the rx8 being free or even the 66 dollars.

Regards
Phillip

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

Michael,

1. When did I say you shouldn't get the latest updates???

2. You spent $65,000 on a car you had test driven (on a race track, and on the road as well I presume) and were happy with. Don't over estimate what is in the re-flashes. In certain cases, you might not want the latest (you didn't reply to my earlier hypothetical about that).

3. Because that is the most convenient time for them to do it, when the car is in the workshop and going through the motions. I got mine done at an equally convenient time for the people involved.

4. Agreed. But since we can't do it ourselves, I can understand (to a certain degree) why they would shy away from publicly posting the info about updates. Can you imagine if every model of every car on the road turned up at their local dealer demanding an update the day after some info is posted on the web? It is not as simple as upgrading software. (Well it is "simple" but requires specialist equipment). You can DIY if you get the right gear ( = spend money).

5. What I have defended, and what have "they" done seriously wrong by the customers?

6. Yes they do. They don't offer the RX-8 with a 26B, so I am going to launch a class action lawsuite against them. Please don't pretend you know what goes on in my mind.

This is a good place for discussion, but we don't need public stoushes. Every time I post I think about what I am saying, and think about what might get argued about it.

Cheers,
Hymee.

timbo

To avoid cross-posting, here is the link to my post on the other thread

you're no longer buying a car, you're buying (licencing) software!!

Timbo

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

No, sco was the first to report the availability of the "new" flash. And I couldn't possibly be the first to post on the F, as my car was "E" from the factory, and the "F" was never available on WDS.

Yes - I have invested my own time and money in equipment and software so I can look at these things. I don't have a measureing device on my coight-o-meter, so I don't sprag off to much how if feels. I try to post some emperical results, to be analysed by public scrutiny. And all that I do for free.

"HAS THE RIGHT" What right? If there car is running 'properly', then what Consumer Right do they have to have if "changed" for the sake of change? If it has problems, the dealer is obliged to fix it. And they will. And Mazda has told us that is the "offical" qualification for a "free" update.

And yep - every time a RX-8 goes through the workshop, a good service department will plug in the WDS to see if there is any updates.

Cheers,
Hymee.

AMG

Any upgrade of any sort to any software driven device is a fix.

My computer and my car are both driven. My computer being constantly upgraded is far more important than ther car. my cmputer derives my income, my car provides me pleasure.

If there is a car reflash, it is a bonus. If there is a computer software upgrade it is a necessity.

I'm happy with the way my car is running, and only today has it gone into the dealership to have the recall heat shield fixed and while it's there it will be reflashed.

I'm sure if the reflash is done to fix a problem that has compromised the car it will be done as an urgent recall to which all owners would be notified.

I consider these reflashes to be fine tuning to standards that mazda has collated from having thousands of cars on the road and from driver feedback.

timbo

AMG, I agree up to a point, but refer you to my comments regarding the disparity of capability between the automotive industry and software industry to communicate with you about updates and fixes.

The car industry is essentially clueless, hence most owners do not know what they do not know.

...and I'm not sure that I'd call what seems from Hymee's data to be potentially 8Kw 'fine tuning', although agree that this will mostly be the case...

Choppy

Imagine going to the Mazda website and downloading the latest reflash/device drive to support more features

Latest build 78.G Flash ** Reverse Mirror down option included, 1 k gain.

Download and install into your Rx8 ECU using the console cable supplied in your starter kit.

hmm the future..

Regards
Phillip

timbo

The way it ought to be

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

Totally agreed!

sinkas

Hi all,

At the risk of cooentiong on somehting that I have not experianced, as I am a enthusiast not an owner.

I think it is good that MAZDA aremaking upgrades during the models run, and not jsut at model or model year change over.

It seems to me that the Australian dealers and service departments, are as virtually always , lacking. If these people knew how to treat customers right, they would keep owners, particularly owerns that are know enthusiasts up to date, via email or a quick call, to say, " hwo about bringing that serive forward a week, as we jsut got a new ECU pgrade that whould make an improvemnt to your car",


OK I have bored myself,

Oh, and yes, they should not charge to do the reflash, send the recipt the Mazda Australia, and ask for them to refund it.

Cheers,

Case

Kas

i havent read the entire thread however:

i believe that a car manafacturer would be silly to release a product without having tested and ironed out the bugs to the best of their knowledge prior to releasing it. If they put that clause in, it means to me as a consumer that I AM buying a test vehicle and it will be upgraded when things go wrong. I dont think thats the message or idea behind launching a successfull product.