Kas

futhermore i also think that whilst the car is under warrany the manafacturer should at least try to maintain the vehicle with updates that may effect the life/opeartion of their product until warranty is expired. This fortunatly happens at your scheduled services 10,000 and 20,000km and in my case without even asking.

labrat

I do believe that car makers do the best job they can within the price limitations of their product. Nobody deliberately puts out sub-standard cars any more, and we have the Japanese to thank for that. I suspect most forum members weren't born in the '60's, let alone remember how awful the quality of those clunkers really was (a reason why I have absolutely no interest in "classic" cars-I find no romance in them whatsoever). In spite of everyone's best efforts, stuff happens as witness the latest Holden recall and the recall for the heat shield on the RX-8.


As a manufacturer of something way less complex than a motor car (we make scientific instrumentation), I have a certain sympathy for motor car makers. We try our best, but sometimes a customer finds something that we've overlooked. If something fails under service conditions we hadn't contemplated, we replace and revise the design. Standard practice. If a customer approaches us reasonably, we fall over backwards to help them. We've never had customers who've jumped up and down and made noises like you-know-who, but if we did, well we'd treat them politely too, but very officially and very carefully, taking a great deal of time to make sure that we'd dot every i and cross every t along the way. And if lawyers became involved, imagine how much time that could take!

Personally, I would regard it as exquisite torture to be knowingly involved with lawyers. Sometimes I feel sorry for criminals, not so much for the sentence they might face but for the company they have to keep.

Lock & Load

LABRAT

Thank goodness we are all different LIONS ROAR , mice squeeck .ha ha ha

cheers
michael

Gomez

You could be sued for slander, saying that.....

timbo

...and you'd never find a defence counsel..:p

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

ROFL!

timbo

Reminds me of the guy walking through a cemetry who, upon spotting a headstone with the epitaph "Here lies a lawyer and an honest man", was heard to exclaim: "I didn't know they'd started burying them two to a grave!"

sco

In software, there is a think called Dijkstra's law - testing only ever proves the presence of bugs, never the absence. In the great majority of cases it is downright impossible to test every scenario nor identify every possible scenario in which software may be used. That means that things are almost guaranteed to never be perfect.

I commend Mazda for making the effort to continuously improve their product. They could just make an update to next years model and not make it available to the rest of us (except in the case that it fixes something that is broken), I commend Mazda for making these improvements available to us. I commend those dealers that attempt to resolve issues by upgrading my car's software (like Grand Prix at Aspley did to try improve the rough idle on my car). I commend Robbie at same dealer for acting in the interests of owners. That sort of customer service wins and keeps customers.

I commend Hymee for his contribution to this community and his efforts to collect and post information of interest to us all. I commend Hymee for sharing the benefit of his relationship with an RX-8 mechanic with us all.

If your dealer wants to charge you for the privilege of upgrading if you have a problem that could be fixed with an update... go to another dealer who won't. The only way to deal with bad customer service is to go elsewhere and name and shame (factually of course)... natural selection will weed them out. If you go to a dealer without an issue and expect an upgrade, I can understand why they will charge... their time is money, and they get nothing back from Mazda for a non-warranty issue. Nothing is free in this world.

Ideally you could upgrade yourself, but that in itself is fraught with danger. Car companies don't want to have to become like software companies and have end user support for upgrades so I don't expect to see fixes being available for download and install any time soon. (Although I'll buy the first four door rotary powered sports coupe with inbuilt WIFI and can self update in my garage overnight).

Don't forget you're posting on a public forum. And don't knock a gift horse in the mouth... especially one that goes out of its way to do you a favour dragging you out of deep **** when you're well and truly in it.

There... now I feel better.

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

Nice post sco! Thanks

AMG

Today I experienced the bugs that software can have and the problems they can cause.

My practice management software crashed today. The software cost 13K and controls every part of my operation, patient charts, treatment notes, accounts, appointment book. a computer fault would render me incapable of working.

Well today it happened. Last week I installed the latest version of the software and today when using the software the computer froze. Nobody else in Australia has had it happen to them. Our support company don't know what to do and tonight we have a link up to the programmers in the US to try to sort it out.

Errors do occur. Am I blaming anyone....no! It's a fact of life when human input is required to do anything. And this goes with cars as well.

As I've sad before if a reflash is required because of a safety issue then I'm sure we'll all be contacted pronto. Mazda are doing a great job constantly developing the RX8 proving that it is truly an "intelligent car".

Furthermore what other car company hires out a race track to allow us the opportunity for a unique test drive. What other car company offers a free driver trainer day as a thank you for purchasing their car. What other company subsidizes an advanced driver day to enjoy the uninhibited limits (if you dare) of your car.

Besides mazda and BMW, I know of no other.

If you're not happy with the car or the back up service, then move on.

Mazda, you've got my vote!

Lock & Load

Mazda has spend 4 years developing , testing and getting the rx8 on to the market , i am happy that they continue to improve their product however you would think that after 4 years they would be able to get their AFRS , FUEL CONSUMPTION , FLOODING STARTING PROBLEMS correct kw sorted out before launching the product .

Mazda would have been fully aware of the Australian and AMERICAN requirements to get their cars passed by the authorities and not have to decrease the KW to get the car passed by the AUTHORITIES .

Yes they are making an effort to improve their product by upgrading the ECU etc but it has come a bit late considering the long gestation period for the RX8.

Considering the small number of expected sales of RX8 MAINLY AROUND THE ESTIMATED 800 PER ANNUM it should not be to hard for MAZDA TO BE MORE COMMUNITATIVE with their customers .

The RX8 IS supposed to be their Flagship car however i dont feel that they are giving me the Flagship treatment .

cheers
michael

AMG

Michael, as I've said, if the issues were of a serious nature, you would be contacted urgently.

A slight reflash is not an urgent issue. The car still performs well. No doubt in your world you offered perfect service and sales to all your customers without one complaint.

;P

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

And for free as well :p

Lock & Load

AMG , HYMEE

You guys are not only intuitive but you also must have

EXTRA SENSORY PERSEPTION .

How else would you have known that i gave excellent sevice to my vendors and purchasers in my real estate bussiness and all for FREE .ha ha ha

My policy IN BUSSINESS was

:IN GOD WE TRUST ALL OTHERS PAY CASH .

cheers
michael

AMG

Nah michael, it's not ESP, it's simply reading your posts. remember the one about the older lady you servcied.

:p

pricer01

Whilst Michael's opening post posed a question being quite specific about 'upgrades to ECU' which is clearly fraught with a range of issues, I believe it is interesting to contemplate appending to the sale contract an appendix that covers of certain consumer rights is some form of Service Level Agreement.

To use a technology analogy, if I buy a system, embedded in the contract are rights and obligations of both parties which , by law, need to reflect fair dealing terms.

In a car sale contract, the T&Cs are very one sided. I'd love to be able to add stuff to even the balance.

I'd consider:
duration of service (downtime)
wait for support (how long I need to pre book service)
expected service costs

Of course I know this is a pipe-dream!

As for my penny's worth on the whole issue ...I believe Mazda will have done their best to get things as close to perfect as they can cost effectively deliver. Legal risk will push them to get it damn close but cost benefit must ultimately prevail. I know I'd opt to pay $63K for a 90% perfect RX8 rather than $75000 to get it to 93%.

Whist I'd love to think that my RX8 should get all upgrades free, I guess there needs to be some balance. An ECU upgrade that can be done on the diagnostic system when I'm gettting my service could be free (my obvious preference) or done for a cost (but only if they could substantiate the benefit I'd get. I'd be pretty dirty to pay $66 for an upgrade and then see no diferrence ...
To take it to the extreme, If upgrades are free then I'd be at the dealership the day the 04-05 model is released demanding a sat nav set for free.

Stay happy folks !!!

rpm_pwr

Bullshit. I completely disagree

The only valid argument I can see here is about the horsepower. Mazda have tradionally sorted out emissions compliance as one of the last things they do. As such, they have been stung numerous times (NC MX-5, S7 RX-7 etc) for what the public percieve as deception. Personally I think it's entirely unprofessional and damages their reputation.

The ECU re-flashes are entirely different. Not that long ago, you got stuck with whatever software your car left the factory with. Mazda could have swapped a 70c ROM chip in your ECU if they really wanted to, but they never did.

Fact is, manufacturers are continually refining their products, it's a fact of life.

Lock & Load

Pricer o1

Glad that you picked up on my thoughts on my 1st post , no one else addressed this .

rpm-pwr

BULL -**** TO A HYMEE POST HMMMM THIS should be interesting .

BE WISE
MICHAEL

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

I'm not exactly sure what I said was bullshit.

rpm_pwr

See the smilie? I was just testing to see if he'd though someone could argue with him about arguing. bah
/goes back into hole

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

Good one. I'll pay that.

rpm_pwr 1, Hymee 0

Cheers,
Hymee.