Revolver

If you go back to the original article, the most revealing aspect was the alternatives to the RX8 that Morley chose. Because it's a car that is difficult to pigeonhole into the genres that motoring journos love to use, it's easy to write off the RX8 as not quite the sports car (it was never supposed to be).

I agree with much of what DavidM had to say though. And you have to remember Motor's target market. They've said repeatedly that whenever they take Holdens and Fords off the cover they lose sales - says it all about the mag really.

And if I had to choose between a fat arsed hi-po Holden or the RX8 for a track car it'd be no contest. All those stickered up bogan specials run out of brakes after a few laps. They are good GT cars but don't cut it as sports cars either.

matt13b

I agree Dave.My friends have Holdens and Fords and at track days they go through discs,pads, master cylinders,tyres.They are very expensive days out for them and I just shake my head and ask them why they buy them,is it just because that's what dad used to have in the driveway??

DrGonzo

I tend to agree that the RX8 can do with more power and some suspension tweaks but as has already been said, the RX8 isn't designed to be a pure sportscar.

I think one thing that hardly ever gets brought up by these magazines is the build quality and general fit and finish of interiors - this is one aspect where the RX8 trumps anything that's Aussie made and makes a huge difference to the whole driving experience.

If they really wanted to talk about this, it would get all the Ford/Holden fanboys more offside than featuring a different car on the cover!

takahashi

I just have a few word to describe the Wheels writer.

They need a good "taste transplant"

To their defense though, they are bringing out the Clubsport because Matt challenges him for a $100000 car.

Sorry Matt, I will beat you any day in a Lotus Elise

matt13b

I didn't think about that Taka but in my defense I did do Wakefield with the same lap time as my dad in his Lotus Exige S but I think this says more about his conservative driving than anything. Still,it shows where their head is at choosing a big V8 that just beat the RX8 rather than a Lotus that as you point out would clearly win..I did actually think about the Lotus's but thought they were all over $100k.

DavidM

Still, it shows where their head is at choosing a big V8 that just beat the RX8 rather than a Lotus that as you point out would clearly win

I think they were trying pick a car that they had there on the same day as the RX8. Though, I'm just speculating.

If you were going to pick a RWD car with a quicker lap-time (and for less for than $100k), without regard of clocking the time on the same day then ...

At Wakefiled they'd probably have to pick a HSV again, as the base Commodores were fraction slower. ie.
- HSV GTS Coupe '03 = 1:11.8
- HSV GTS '04 = 1:12.2
- RX8 = 1:12.7
- Commodore SV8 = 1:13.2

At Winton they'd could a pick of a Commodore, XR6T, as well as Elise or S2000 ... so they'd have a few more options. ie.
- HSV GTS (auto) '06 = 1:42.0
- Elise '02 = 1:43.9
- S2000 = 1:44.1
- HSV R8 '05 = 1:44.1
- Monaro CV8 '05 = 1:44.5
- Commodore SS '05 = 1:44.5
- XR6 Turbo (auto) '06 = 1:44.5
- RX8 = 1:44.6

thisllub

Take away the difference in price between the RX-8 and R-8 and you have the "snail".
It is all about choice.
The new XR6 T will be faster then the Holden and $20000 cheaper.

I can understand why people buy Holdens and Fords. They are good all purpose cars at a reasonable price.

What I don't understand is how these guys praise cars like the TT and GTI Golf yet neither car is as good as the RX-8.
I guess that when you are desperate for something to write, new is good.

rotalution

The reason why they like GTis and TT is bcoz they are euro ?

Dont kill me pls...
but anyone notice Australians have this thing to try to be Europeans ? is it bcoz of its cultural and class ?

That Hyundai ad. showed in Melbourne.. (some euro looking building) with a Italian looking dude with a french roll in the ad. ... trying to make ppl think their car is euro design.. targeted at australians...

The new statesman.. BMW 5 series looking anyone ?

Revolver

There's still an old prejudice around that 'euro' style is something to aim for. Mind you, that's because a lot of asian manufacturers were very derivative or just plain bland for a long, long time.

The euro marques (especially the Germans) will still have that desired cachet but the asian manufacturers are catching up. Lexus has made inroads in suburbs where 10-20 years ago cashed up people wouldn't be seen dead in a Japanese car. Even Subaru seems to have succeeded in branding itself a rung above the also rans and Mazda is doing well with it's styling and dynamics to follow suit.

It probably is a cultural thing to some extent but you need to remember this is still a very young industry in comparative terms and long product cycles means it takes time for other trends to develop.

MY Racing 221

Really interesting discussion guys.

I read the initial report in Motor - and went ahead and bought an RX8 anyway.

It sounds like most of us understand what the RX8 is. That is (IMO) a damn good compromise. I love sports cars, but now have a family so need 4 seats. Used to have an Evo 7 - which is a fast car, but not a sports car. Nor is it a particularly involving drive.

There are better track weapons out there...

There are better GT cars...

There are better daily drivers...

BUT, I'm yet to find something else that ticks as many different boxes as competently as the RX8 at anywhere near the same price.

Magazines like MOTOR thrive on publishing those sorts of articles, and the controversy generated by such. We then tend to fall into the cycle (I believe) when we start trying to justify our thoughts about the RX8 to the world.... I can lap at this speed all day etc etc... it just becomes a pissing competition...

In the end, does it really matter? Do you love the RX8? Love driving it? Can't picture yourself in anything else? If you answer yes to some of these, then be happy, and let Morley et al tell the masses they aren't missing anything. Let them think that... but have a smug smile on your face at the same time - I know I will!

takahashi

Welcome to forum

You know what, my racing 221, I use the same logic when I married my wife

rotalution

doc.. your comments has been screen shotted.. how much u want to pay for it ?!

We take Amex / Diners Visa / Bank Cards / Cash

Revolver

Well said. My sentiments exactly.

matt13b

I agree too.. And it is a rotary and I like that the most,I love them.

rotalution

i cant think of anything that can offer

very close to 50:50 balance
comfort
nice and not cheap looking interior
9000 RPM red line
4 door

the only thing it lacks.. is really a bit of power.. .. maybe 160 kw atw would be nice

before i bought the 8.. i was tossing between STi / 350z

STi.. that 1990 design interior.. and the amount of evolution it goes through.. just keep updating.. changing to new version..

350z the interior quality is no comment.. specially that centre console plastic texture and look.. also .. non rear projection dash dials.. its like S15 dials.. from the 90s...... its only 2 seater... 7k rpm redline?... no turbo.. makes me think of muscle car.. aka holden/ford.. though the new updated version has a much more refine interior.. I would think its not a bad choice between the new 350z and the 8..

matt13b

I agree with you too Rotalution.The 350z I like but the RX8 seemed higher tech and more innovative but does not have the power it should or could..

Revolver

350Z is very poorly packaged but the power is good. We can only hope that Mazda sorts out something for the new RX8 model in 2010-11(?). I think they're battling fuel consumption and reliability problems. The CAFE legislation in the US might also kill it off.

I'd buy the new GTR in a heartbeat if I had a lazy $175K though...

matt13b

So would I but you can't buy it in a traditional manual can you?

timbo

Why would you want it in a traditional manual?

The twin clutch gearboxes are faster than manual, can be calibrated with the ECU, the electronics also help protect against clutch abuse and enable various forms of 'launch control'

I could be persuaded into a bet that says we'll see no three pedal cars beyond around 2012, apart from cheap 'n' nasties!

matt13b

I know they are faster but I still prefer them. I also realise they will probably be phased out but for now I like a stick and a clutch..Even if it is fractionally slower.I don't think I am the only one who thinks this way,just part of a growing minority.

rotalution

for the R35, apparently MCR (one of the first Japanese tuner in Japan that acquired a 35 for development for those that dont know) has reported gearbox weakening after basically non stop track action and testing. But the report cant confirmed rather is the box or the clutch. A side note is the MCR car had been tweak and boosted with significantly more power.

also..

The base model GTR with street tyres just did a 7:29 at the ring in April.. previous test time with a bit of damp track was 7:38 to 7:34.

170k.. M3 or GTR ?

is actually .. a bit hard choice.. bcoz i like the M3's styling... inside and outside.. and the new M engine.. heritage engineering..

but the GTR also offer similar but with a much more GO FAST tech...

- that twin clutch box.. gear change time and that launch control system can make up so much pace against a lighter and more power car. Last month's UK EVO magazine tested against a Corvette on straight.. faster.... tested against a Audi R8 on cross country roads.. faster/safer with ease.... tested against GT3 on their test track.. faster with ease.. just shy of their Enzo test time.

- those front Brembo monoblock brakes..

- the bragging right of 7:29 at the ring.. lol... that photo in the recent Motor magzine of that black GTR at the lights with the Porsche GT3.. is funny.. although not line up as the GTR was blocked by a car.. but imagine that happens to u one day when u driving the R.... the Porsche wouldnt dare to look over !! haha.. even a 911 turbo or GT2.. i dont think the GTR with launch control have any trouble killing it !

matt13b

I find Porshe drivers quite often don't know much about cars and they seem to think that because their car is a Porshe and is european that it must be faster. They equate speed with price tags. Ive been in some quick rotaries that easily did away with them at the lights..(not RX8's unfortunatley)

rotalution

trust u to comment the Porsche drivers like that being a Mazda driver haha...
clssic.. rotary engine > 911. ~~ forza Mazda ~~

DMRH

Wise words ladies.

This is the reason why our cars are so popular for people like us. Why we sleep well at night knowing whats available to us in the garage. We cringe each time petrol rises & breath real life when our RX-8's do the remarkable (compared to our abilities) then sleep soundly with the knowledge the kids fit in the back & love it when Dad has some fun through a bend.

REgards

Revolver

Agreed. No contest that a trad manual was faster compared to the first flappy paddle gearboxes, just as experienced drivers could brake in a shorter distance than the first ABS systems, but technology moves on and these new gearboxes really are faster.

I suppose the purists will always argue that it robs driver involvement but then again things are happening a lot quicker in modern supercars and it allows the driver to concentrate on where he/she's pointing the thing, etc.

Not quite sure about 2012 but it'll filter down for sure - already has to an extent - just look at the semi-automatic in the humble Mazda 6.