Marketplace Competitor for RX8
08-18-2006, 09:47 AM
#101
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Originally Posted by deano
The lease on my RX8 is up in February.
I'm researching the Lotus Exige S at the moment - it looks like the goods to me.
I want something that gets driven to and from work, and that is suitable for club and track racing.
The RX8 has been okay, but its nearly time for a change.
Anyone else looking at the Lotus?
I'm researching the Lotus Exige S at the moment - it looks like the goods to me.
I want something that gets driven to and from work, and that is suitable for club and track racing.
The RX8 has been okay, but its nearly time for a change.
Anyone else looking at the Lotus?
Last edited by MissyK; 08-18-2006 at 09:50 AM.
08-18-2006, 09:48 AM
#102
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Originally Posted by Revolver
I wasn't so much talking interior - more ride and drivetrain harshness. I suppose it depends what your run to work is like but I couldn't imagine commuting in Sydney every day in such a car.
As for test-driving - for me, that's a must (even for cars I'm not buying
).
As for test-driving - for me, that's a must (even for cars I'm not buying
).Test-drive the lotus and let us know also.
Last edited by MissyK; 08-18-2006 at 09:50 AM.
08-21-2006, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Revolver
I wasn't so much talking interior - more ride and drivetrain harshness. I suppose it depends what your run to work is like but I couldn't imagine commuting in Sydney every day in such a car.
As for test-driving - for me, that's a must (even for cars I'm not buying ).
As for test-driving - for me, that's a must (even for cars I'm not buying
).My commute is about 8km with 7 corners involved - I'd drive my go-kart to work if I could register it!! :-)
08-21-2006, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Revolver
Fair enough.
Go for it and let us know what you think.
I'll organise a test-drive myself, just to satisfy my own curiosity.
Go for it and let us know what you think.
I'll organise a test-drive myself, just to satisfy my own curiosity.
08-21-2006, 11:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Revolver
I couldn't resist dragging this old horse out of its grave for another flogging. 
The current issue of "Motor" has a comparo between the RX8, 130i and 350Z and guess what, the 130i wins.
Mind you, the reasoning of the conclusion is a tad baffling.
The 130i wins because it is a "proper performance car". Que? And the 350Z and RX8 are not? The 130i is beaten on the strip and there's bugger all between the 3 of them so far as power to weight goes. Of course, there's also a big hardcore of enthusiasts who'd suggest that none of them are proper performance cars when compared to more serious metal but I'm not going to get into that.
The 130I "has four proper doors and four proper seats - no gimmicks". I doubt the scribbler actually sat in the back of both the RX8 and the 130i. I have and I know which one I'd pick for passengers I actually liked. As we know, the RX8 is deceptive in this dept and many people assume it has less space in the back than it actually does. As for the door thing, I'd suggest that if you measure the width of the door opening for rear passengers in the 130i the aperture is hardly large whereas the suicide doors of the RX8 make for easy access.
The really weird reason though is that the 130i "doesn't stand out too much, or at all in this company but if you wanted to pick a fight you can give a good account of yourself". WTF? Since when was that a clincher? Is the scribbler a Q-car fanatic? If so, he should declare that (subjective) interest so that his reading public can judge how much it skews his determination. This subjectivism was highlighted by his unnecessary styling critique in which the RX8 was unfavourably compared to a "robot in disguise"
. Please, compare performance, handling, features, amentity, etc all you want but we've got eyes and you've got photos - we can assess for ourselves which is the more attractive.
In the text of the test he also reckons the RX8 can't live with the 130i through corners because it gets "swamped by the 130i's mid-range punch on the way out". I'd suggest that if the 130i beat the RX8 out of the corner he had the RX8 in the wrong gear (a common mistake for those used to more low-down torque than the 8 offers).
Every time I compare something new to the RX8, it makes me realise just how hard that is to do. It remains a unique vehicle for plenty of reasons and is still the best fit for my wants and needs.
The current issue of "Motor" has a comparo between the RX8, 130i and 350Z and guess what, the 130i wins.
Mind you, the reasoning of the conclusion is a tad baffling.
The 130i wins because it is a "proper performance car". Que? And the 350Z and RX8 are not? The 130i is beaten on the strip and there's bugger all between the 3 of them so far as power to weight goes. Of course, there's also a big hardcore of enthusiasts who'd suggest that none of them are proper performance cars when compared to more serious metal but I'm not going to get into that.
The 130I "has four proper doors and four proper seats - no gimmicks". I doubt the scribbler actually sat in the back of both the RX8 and the 130i. I have and I know which one I'd pick for passengers I actually liked. As we know, the RX8 is deceptive in this dept and many people assume it has less space in the back than it actually does. As for the door thing, I'd suggest that if you measure the width of the door opening for rear passengers in the 130i the aperture is hardly large whereas the suicide doors of the RX8 make for easy access.
The really weird reason though is that the 130i "doesn't stand out too much, or at all in this company but if you wanted to pick a fight you can give a good account of yourself". WTF? Since when was that a clincher? Is the scribbler a Q-car fanatic? If so, he should declare that (subjective) interest so that his reading public can judge how much it skews his determination. This subjectivism was highlighted by his unnecessary styling critique in which the RX8 was unfavourably compared to a "robot in disguise"
. Please, compare performance, handling, features, amentity, etc all you want but we've got eyes and you've got photos - we can assess for ourselves which is the more attractive. In the text of the test he also reckons the RX8 can't live with the 130i through corners because it gets "swamped by the 130i's mid-range punch on the way out". I'd suggest that if the 130i beat the RX8 out of the corner he had the RX8 in the wrong gear (a common mistake for those used to more low-down torque than the 8 offers).
Every time I compare something new to the RX8, it makes me realise just how hard that is to do. It remains a unique vehicle for plenty of reasons and is still the best fit for my wants and needs.
However the fact that the 130i won for the above mentioned "reasons" (such as the 130i not standing out?!?!), made me wonder if he was getting a nice fat paycheck from the german boys.
I too have seen the back seat of a 1 series beamer, and I sure as hell would prefer to be sitting in the back of my 8.
I don't care which car wins, just make sure u don't need to be a lateral thinker to understand the conclusion of what is suppose to be a logically structured, professionally written review. Massive thumbs down for that comparo.
08-22-2006, 12:34 AM
#108
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I've been watching the clown in question (Isaac Bober) for a few issues now and he's not covering himself with glory IMHO.
Motor has always been a second rate, 'matey' kind of production anyway. It strikes me as largely run by young blokes for those with a short attention span. Morley's continued existence is a case in point. I sometimes wonder how a writer of Cockburn's calibre can stand the place. I've bought it from time to time over the years and took out a subscription for the first time ever about a year ago. I don't think I'll bother renewing it. For a while there, they couldn't even get their delivery right.
Good example of the difference in professionalism - I wrote to Motor making most of the points I posted about above. Not even an acknowledgement.
A couple of months ago, I wrote to Wheels with some constructive criticism of an article by Michael Stahl (who I happen to like). Not only did they publish the letter in full, the editor advised me that he had passed it on to Stahl, who later emailed me direct with a no bullshit response. He accepted my criticism in the spirit it was intended and demonstrated none of the vanity some writers suffer from. After a brief correspondence his stocks with me went even higher.
Now, I'm not suggesting my opinion is gospel (unless you're my client ) or that Wheels is some kind of bible, but the contrast in response, or lack thereof, was interesting.
Motor has always been a second rate, 'matey' kind of production anyway. It strikes me as largely run by young blokes for those with a short attention span. Morley's continued existence is a case in point. I sometimes wonder how a writer of Cockburn's calibre can stand the place. I've bought it from time to time over the years and took out a subscription for the first time ever about a year ago. I don't think I'll bother renewing it. For a while there, they couldn't even get their delivery right.
Good example of the difference in professionalism - I wrote to Motor making most of the points I posted about above. Not even an acknowledgement.
A couple of months ago, I wrote to Wheels with some constructive criticism of an article by Michael Stahl (who I happen to like). Not only did they publish the letter in full, the editor advised me that he had passed it on to Stahl, who later emailed me direct with a no bullshit response. He accepted my criticism in the spirit it was intended and demonstrated none of the vanity some writers suffer from. After a brief correspondence his stocks with me went even higher.
Now, I'm not suggesting my opinion is gospel (unless you're my client
) or that Wheels is some kind of bible, but the contrast in response, or lack thereof, was interesting.
08-24-2006, 03:34 AM
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Getting back to the original question in this thread - I too have been really struggling to work out what I would replace the 8 with. I'm not attracted to V8 leviathans or the WRX/Evo brigade, but don't want to lose the 4 seats , or take a step backwards in performance or handling. Nor am I prepared to forego one of the best manual transmissions in the World for an auto or even a DSG a la VW/Audi ( flicking a switch or "+/-" psuedo gearshift just ain't the same).
After a lot of soul searching I pretty much concluded that there was nothing under $100k that was going to push all the right buttons. To my mind that says something pretty remarkable about the specific attributes of the 8, and the lack of real competition.
I'm a lucky b&*%$#d however and after an unexpected but welcome change at work, I'm now able to stretch the $$ enough to "solve" the problem. It's taken a car that costs around double the RX8 to do so however, but this week I ordered a 6 speed manual 335i coupe, which will be delivered in January.
For sure it will be faster than the 8 ( 400NM of torque from 1300rpm!), and definitely better finished. But you know I still have my doubts as to whether it will be more agile, will steer better, or have a better gearshift. I guess I'll find out in a few months, and until then I intend to continue reaping as much joy and excitement out of my little red 8 as I possibly can.
In my entire life I've never had a car with decent torque, so I guess this is going to be one very steep learning curve. So if you see a blue bimmer facing backwards on a road near you early next year, with its pale faced driver visibly shaking at the wheel, that'll probably be me.
After a lot of soul searching I pretty much concluded that there was nothing under $100k that was going to push all the right buttons. To my mind that says something pretty remarkable about the specific attributes of the 8, and the lack of real competition.
I'm a lucky b&*%$#d however and after an unexpected but welcome change at work, I'm now able to stretch the $$ enough to "solve" the problem. It's taken a car that costs around double the RX8 to do so however, but this week I ordered a 6 speed manual 335i coupe, which will be delivered in January.
For sure it will be faster than the 8 ( 400NM of torque from 1300rpm!), and definitely better finished. But you know I still have my doubts as to whether it will be more agile, will steer better, or have a better gearshift. I guess I'll find out in a few months, and until then I intend to continue reaping as much joy and excitement out of my little red 8 as I possibly can.
In my entire life I've never had a car with decent torque, so I guess this is going to be one very steep learning curve. So if you see a blue bimmer facing backwards on a road near you early next year, with its pale faced driver visibly shaking at the wheel, that'll probably be me.
08-24-2006, 03:55 AM
#110
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Well done on the purchase.
No even M3 has the same lap time as the 8 on the Top Gear race tract. I don't think your 335 will be any match.
Having said that I have seen a few 130i production cars (fully stripped and race spec tyres) - doing a 1"41s at Winton when semi wet. I am interested in that!
No even M3 has the same lap time as the 8 on the Top Gear race tract. I don't think your 335 will be any match.
Having said that I have seen a few 130i production cars (fully stripped and race spec tyres) - doing a 1"41s at Winton when semi wet. I am interested in that!
08-24-2006, 05:56 PM
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LOL Taka - if only I was as good a driver as "the Stig"! Alas the 335i looks like it won't out accelerate an E46 M3 from a standing start, but it promises to be quicker in the gears. Automobile mag in the US has it doing some pretty interesting stuff on the dyno ( 275 HP and 300 lb-ft at rear wheels) and well ahead in 6th gear "M3 needs 14.7 seconds to get from 30 to 70 mph – but the 335i does it in only 12.5" . I suspect in the "real world" ( wahtever that is!) the 335i may well prove to be the faster of the two bimmers. It'll be interesting to see if they ever put this engine into the 1 series - might make an interesting "M1" perhaps??! 
http://www.automobilemag.com/feature...i_dynamometer/ - 38k -
http://www.automobilemag.com/feature...i_dynamometer/ - 38k -
08-24-2006, 06:42 PM
#113
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Well, who'd a thunk it - my little comparo thread making 8 pages. 
Nick,
I know a few people checking out the 335i with serious intent. I agree it promises to be a good deal (relatively speaking). Hope it doesn't come with run-flats - if it does, junk them and buy normal rubber.
I also agree there's very little under $100K to rival the 8 for its combo of performance, handling, packaging and practicality (which was the point of the thread). It's also pretty skinny north of $100K actually, if you're not too keen on the looks of the new Bimmer coupe (which I'm not).
However, hope may be at hand in the guise of the new Audi A5 (due on sale next year). Okay, it's quite different from the 8 in that it's AWD and has a DSG transmission, but as I'm keen on anything that will perform, seat 4 and not look like a two-door sedan, it might be a goer down the track.
Nick,
I know a few people checking out the 335i with serious intent. I agree it promises to be a good deal (relatively speaking). Hope it doesn't come with run-flats - if it does, junk them and buy normal rubber.
I also agree there's very little under $100K to rival the 8 for its combo of performance, handling, packaging and practicality (which was the point of the thread). It's also pretty skinny north of $100K actually, if you're not too keen on the looks of the new Bimmer coupe (which I'm not).
However, hope may be at hand in the guise of the new Audi A5 (due on sale next year). Okay, it's quite different from the 8 in that it's AWD and has a DSG transmission, but as I'm keen on anything that will perform, seat 4 and not look like a two-door sedan, it might be a goer down the track.
08-24-2006, 07:24 PM
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Yup unfortunately the 335i runs the dreaded Pirelli Euforias - the rears are 245/35 I think. And yes I'm looking at what I can do to swap them for normal tyres.
Is the Audi A5 is the new A4 coupe? If so I agree it should be a good contender. Like VW ( perhaps because of VW, whose excellent and drastically improved Golf platform is now gradually finding its way into other Group products) Audi seems to be finally sorting out its handling inadequacies.
Is the Audi A5 is the new A4 coupe? If so I agree it should be a good contender. Like VW ( perhaps because of VW, whose excellent and drastically improved Golf platform is now gradually finding its way into other Group products) Audi seems to be finally sorting out its handling inadequacies.
08-24-2006, 08:19 PM
#115
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Originally Posted by NickG
Is the Audi A5 is the new A4 coupe? If so I agree it should be a good contender. Like VW ( perhaps because of VW, whose excellent and drastically improved Golf platform is now gradually finding its way into other Group products) Audi seems to be finally sorting out its handling inadequacies.
08-28-2006, 05:44 AM
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Hey guys,
I took my cousins new Ford F6 Typhoon for a test drive yesterday. All I can say is WOW - drive around at under 4000rpm and its a normal Ford Falcon.
Hit 4000rpm and you get a massive surge of power, the wheels start spinning and the driver starts grinning. Coming onto boost in 2nd gear is enough to chirp up the back tyres - pull 3rd real quick and it keeps spinning.
I've never owned an Australian car but I would have one of these in my garage. He had some work done to it before it was picked up and its got 306kw at the wheels. He also has V8 super car suspension in it (fully computer adjustable from the cabin).
The RX8 will need about 240kw at the wheels to compete power to weight.
So now I have a bigger decision to make. Lotus Exige S, Ford F6 Typhoon, or Turbo the RX8. The F6 is $56k + mods, Lotus around $130k, Turbo Rx8 $10 - $15k?
If anyone gets the opportunity to test drive an F6 - go for it.
If I could have the F6 Typhoon engine in the RX8 - it would be a serious competitor.
Also as a side note I test drive my uncle's brand new GTO Monaro last week. More torque that you can poke a stick at - but it won't even get close to the F6 under boost.
Deano.
I took my cousins new Ford F6 Typhoon for a test drive yesterday. All I can say is WOW - drive around at under 4000rpm and its a normal Ford Falcon.
Hit 4000rpm and you get a massive surge of power, the wheels start spinning and the driver starts grinning. Coming onto boost in 2nd gear is enough to chirp up the back tyres - pull 3rd real quick and it keeps spinning.
I've never owned an Australian car but I would have one of these in my garage. He had some work done to it before it was picked up and its got 306kw at the wheels. He also has V8 super car suspension in it (fully computer adjustable from the cabin).
The RX8 will need about 240kw at the wheels to compete power to weight.
So now I have a bigger decision to make. Lotus Exige S, Ford F6 Typhoon, or Turbo the RX8. The F6 is $56k + mods, Lotus around $130k, Turbo Rx8 $10 - $15k?
If anyone gets the opportunity to test drive an F6 - go for it.
If I could have the F6 Typhoon engine in the RX8 - it would be a serious competitor.
Also as a side note I test drive my uncle's brand new GTO Monaro last week. More torque that you can poke a stick at - but it won't even get close to the F6 under boost.
Deano.
08-28-2006, 05:30 PM
#117
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Hmm.... 
...handling? 
Straight line power is one thing, and I'm sure the F6 does that in spades, but I'd be interested in your impressions once a few twisties are encountered...and that's where the 8 excels. IMHO, it wouldn't need anything like 240RWKw to eat an F6 in any test where handling is an issue
...handling? Straight line power is one thing, and I'm sure the F6 does that in spades, but I'd be interested in your impressions once a few twisties are encountered...and that's where the 8 excels. IMHO, it wouldn't need anything like 240RWKw to eat an F6 in any test where handling is an issue
08-28-2006, 06:42 PM
#118
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Turbo the 8 
...but be prepared to spend more like $15-$20K to do it all properly.
Yes, the inveterate test-driver has driven the F6 also. It was one of the ideas I toyed with when thinking about a replacement for the family truckster.
Actually Timbo, for a big car it's pretty well tied down and I'm sure with suspension mods it would be lotsa fun in bends as well as straights. However, you never forget it's big and heavy - nowhere near the agility and balance of the 8. Half a tonne of extra weight will do that...
Deano, I reckon if space is not a priority (i.e. you don't need something as big as the F6), a FI 8 is arguably better value than the Exige. I guess long-term you might worry about the reliability of a maxed out 8 but given Lotus' reputation for build quality there are question marks over the Exige too in that dept. You can buy quite a few replacement motors for the price differential too.
...but be prepared to spend more like $15-$20K to do it all properly.Yes, the inveterate test-driver has driven the F6 also.
It was one of the ideas I toyed with when thinking about a replacement for the family truckster.Actually Timbo, for a big car it's pretty well tied down and I'm sure with suspension mods it would be lotsa fun in bends as well as straights. However, you never forget it's big and heavy - nowhere near the agility and balance of the 8. Half a tonne of extra weight will do that...
Deano, I reckon if space is not a priority (i.e. you don't need something as big as the F6), a FI 8 is arguably better value than the Exige. I guess long-term you might worry about the reliability of a maxed out 8 but given Lotus' reputation for build quality there are question marks over the Exige too in that dept. You can buy quite a few replacement motors for the price differential too.
08-28-2006, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Revolver
Turbo the 8 ...but be prepared to spend more like $15-$20K to do it all properly.
Yes, the inveterate test-driver has driven the F6 also. It was one of the ideas I toyed with when thinking about a replacement for the family truckster.
Actually Timbo, for a big car it's pretty well tied down and I'm sure with suspension mods it would be lotsa fun in bends as well as straights. However, you never forget it's big and heavy - nowhere near the agility and balance of the 8. Half a tonne of extra weight will do that...
Deano, I reckon if space is not a priority (i.e. you don't need something as big as the F6), a FI 8 is arguably better value than the Exige. I guess long-term you might worry about the reliability of a maxed out 8 but given Lotus' reputation for build quality there are question marks over the Exige too in that dept. You can buy quite a few replacement motors for the price differential too.
...but be prepared to spend more like $15-$20K to do it all properly.Yes, the inveterate test-driver has driven the F6 also.
It was one of the ideas I toyed with when thinking about a replacement for the family truckster.Actually Timbo, for a big car it's pretty well tied down and I'm sure with suspension mods it would be lotsa fun in bends as well as straights. However, you never forget it's big and heavy - nowhere near the agility and balance of the 8. Half a tonne of extra weight will do that...
Deano, I reckon if space is not a priority (i.e. you don't need something as big as the F6), a FI 8 is arguably better value than the Exige. I guess long-term you might worry about the reliability of a maxed out 8 but given Lotus' reputation for build quality there are question marks over the Exige too in that dept. You can buy quite a few replacement motors for the price differential too.
The F6 with the adjustable suspension under it felt *very* good - certainly nothing like a normal Falcon.
I didn't do a hot run up the mountain with it because I was scared of the power and especially since it wasn't my car - but I reckon the modded F6 would out handle the standard RX8 - put some sway bars in the RX8 and they'd be similar for handling.
I can live with a two seater - but its a lot more practicle to have 4 seats. My wife sometimes drives the RX8 with the baby in the back - won't be able to do that in a Lotus.
Might keep the RX8 if I get the Lotus.
Deano.
08-28-2006, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Revolver
Can I have your problems?!
I'll split them with you - you can run the company and I'll make the decisions on the vehicle purchases :-)
cheers,
deano.
08-28-2006, 07:30 PM
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[QUOTE=Revolver]
Turbo the 8 ...but be prepared to spend more like $15-$20K to do it all properly.
Dave
I agree if you do the Turbo properly it could easily be $ 15-20k and for that sort of expense you may as well consuder staying NA with a 20b 3 rotor more outright power and reliability without a turbo .
Michael
Turbo the 8
...but be prepared to spend more like $15-$20K to do it all properly.Dave
I agree if you do the Turbo properly it could easily be $ 15-20k and for that sort of expense you may as well consuder staying NA with a 20b 3 rotor more outright power and reliability without a turbo .
Michael
08-28-2006, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by deano
I'll split them with you - you can run the company and I'll make the decisions on the vehicle purchases :-)
cheers,
deano.
cheers,
deano.
Nup - gotta be a straight swap. 
What kinda company am I signing up for anyways?
08-28-2006, 07:43 PM
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[QUOTE=Grizzly8]
Sheesh Mike, when are you gonna learn to quote properly. j/k
As for the 20B thing - has anyone done that with an 8 yet? If so, bet it cost them more than $20K to do it all properly AND register the damn thing.
Originally Posted by Revolver
Turbo the 8 ...but be prepared to spend more like $15-$20K to do it all properly.
Dave
I agree if you do the Turbo properly it could easily be $ 15-20k and for that sort of expense you may as well consuder staying NA with a 20b 3 rotor more outright power and reliability without a turbo .
Michael
...but be prepared to spend more like $15-$20K to do it all properly.Dave
I agree if you do the Turbo properly it could easily be $ 15-20k and for that sort of expense you may as well consuder staying NA with a 20b 3 rotor more outright power and reliability without a turbo .
Michael
j/kAs for the 20B thing - has anyone done that with an 8 yet? If so, bet it cost them more than $20K to do it all properly AND register the damn thing.
08-29-2006, 12:51 AM
#125
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I'm due to replace mine around sep. 2007 and have recently been wondering about the same thing.
If i could afford or justify it, I'd probably get either a Porsche Cayman S or a Porsche Boxster S,
but other more practical cars i've thought about are:
Subaru Liberty R spec B - a bit bland to look at though
VW R32 - Hmmmmmmmm
Nissan 350Z - no backseat
Nup I think I'll stick with Mazda, its fun to drive practical, cheap to service and maintain, I don't pay for petrol so that's never a worry, maybe this time I'll get a White 8 (now that its available in OZ), with a MS kit and wheels like Will's, but in white - and call the car; Frostie
If i could afford or justify it, I'd probably get either a Porsche Cayman S or a Porsche Boxster S,
but other more practical cars i've thought about are:
Subaru Liberty R spec B - a bit bland to look at though
VW R32 - Hmmmmmmmm
Nissan 350Z - no backseat
Nup I think I'll stick with Mazda, its fun to drive practical, cheap to service and maintain, I don't pay for petrol so that's never a worry, maybe this time I'll get a White 8 (now that its available in OZ), with a MS kit and wheels like Will's, but in white - and call the car; Frostie
Last edited by RIX 8; 08-29-2006 at 12:54 AM.