jax8

Gomezgetwithit....some of us have been raving about the Japan-only white for almost a year now. I had a Subaru SVX in pearlescent white which would suit the 8 incredibly.
Some say the white may be here next year.

apologies oh merciful moderator,
jack.

IKnowNot'ing

Very nice post indeed. Can we have more of these please.

On the interim solution, common rail diesel is the direction car manufacturers have taken for the european market. And these diesel powered cars are almost as fuel efficient as the existing e-petrol hybrids.

I have nevertheless a few remarks considering this diesel technical/marketing option :

- I have yet to drive a mainstream diesel engined car that passes my very stringent NVH standards. I'm talking here about mainstream small 4 cylinder engines (up to 2.2l), not the big and smooth I/V6 and V8 exclusively limited to executive cars. Apparently the new Honda diesel engine found in the new Accord is a big step forward in term of NVH. The fact that it was designed by VTEC-san (a petrolhead) might count.
The VW/Audi solutio of 'pump-düse', is absolutely disastrous in term of NVH but is very good for emissions and performances.

- I wonder how clean, economical and performing a petrol engine could be should the car manufacturers decide to invest the same amount of ressources (and cost/unit) they did for its diesel counterparts. We don't see enough stratified charge, direct injection, turbo-charged petrol engines around here.

- Electric hybrids have the advantage to be able to become ZEV in city centres, parkings, congestioned area... But they carry a larger, heavier powertrain, hurting packaging, handling, costs and fuel economy!

- Why don't we see diesel/electric hybrids : now that must be relally economical (not as clean though).

Doctorr

I hope this thread can stand some 'industrial' input....

It's 3am where I am, operating a huge plant, using millions of cubic feet of hydrogen to make Benzene.

You guys are right, if you need industrial quantities of H2, it will come from Methane Reformer, a very energy intensive, and none-too-greenhouse-friendly process.

Methane and steam are heated over a catalyst that breaks them down into hydrogen and carbon monoxide. It takes a LOT of energy to break up the water molecules!
Methane (CH4) and steam (H2O) becomes CO and H6. We seperate the heavy carbon compounds out, and use the hydrogen for the process. Our plant is the biggest hydrogen producer in the world.

Using the hydrogen in your car would only give you a 'warm/cuddly' feeling until you realised how much greenhouse gas was produced to make it!

Mr. Labrat is correct that methanol would be a better source of hydrogen than hydrogen compressed in a tank - it might use more energy to compress it than it would produce burning!
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doc

rx-8_boi02

Thanks labrat for putting in a simple version for me

deano

Hey Labrat,

Would it be possible to split the hydrogen from the oxygen in the car - so that in effect you fill it up with water?

Please don't flame me if that was a real dumb question!

Deano.

rotarenvy

suposedly this is what top fuel cars do when you see the white flames out the pipes. aparently nitro burns clear so you should see no flame but because of the heat the h2o in the air splits and burns off the hydrogen gas giving the white flames.
might be a urban myth tho.

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

I think the fundamental problem with that is that it requires enourmous amounts of energy to split the molecules - that energy has to come from somewhere.

Cheers,
Hymee.

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

I suppose there is a massive amount of wasted energy (heat) coming out of the exhaust that this is entirely possible - but it obviously is wasted as well.

Cheers,
Hymee.

labrat

As Hymee says, it requires an enormous amount of energy to dissociate water into its component atoms. Reportedly, thermite fires (the reaction of iron oxide with powdered aluminium metal to form molten iron and aluminium oxide) are hot enough to dissociate water, but you are looking at temperatures at which literally iron is a liquid. If you can see the colour of a hydrogen-oxygen flame, it is due to the presence of an impurity in the flame. Pure hydrogen oxygen flames are completely colourless

rpm_pwr

This is why some extiguishers are foam / inert gas filled. Water can just feed some fires.