labrat

Hmm, the only one I'd consider would be the quattro. However, when you think about it, AWD is what you do to a FWD car to get the car to handle properly. To me, that's over-engineering, and papering over the cracks. The RX-8 is better designed from the ground up.

A quibble I have with German cars is this tendency to over-engineer. It's not a new thing. There has been a good program on tanks on the History Channel. The German response to the Russian T-34 tank in WWII was illustrative. This was a simple, easy to build tank which gave German armour a pasting. The Germans got a look at the T-34, and had two choices - make a copy, or go the German way and make it perfect. They chose the latter of course. With twice the production capacity of the Russians, they made around a quarter of the number of the Russan tanks (and lost the tank war).

As far as dealerships go, the Brisbane Audi dealership has probably been responsible for selling more Lexus' than Audis to Audi repeat customers. Stories over overcharging and incapacity to fix faults are legion

Revolver

You're always worth reading labby.

I tend to agree with you on the quattro. I'd only buy it because I don't like powerful FWD cars but I'd really prefer a lighter weight RWD car.

Hmm, $90K buys a lot of modded RX8...

Didn't know that about the tank war. I thought the Russian winter had more to do with it?

NickG

At the risk of adding flames to the fire Michael, you might be interested in this review of new TT vs Cayman vs 335i coupe:

http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto.../33294/?page=1

Seems the TT has the looks, but not quite the finesse to trounce the opposition in absolute terms. Can't knock the value proposition though, especially in Oz where the price differences between these three cars are much greater than Europe or USA.

Grizzly8

Nice find thanks

The price difference here in OZ is way different to the US

Porsche Cayman $118,000 +onroads the Cayman S ... IS $148,000 + onroads

BMW 335i TWINTURBO will be around $120,000 +on roads

Audi TT 3.2 Awd quattro $90,000 +on roads as Motor and car magazine UK have stated the 2.0 ltr FTSI is the more engaging drive out of the first TT offered in OZ .

Comparing these 3 cars is an interesting excersise .

Michael

Grizzly8

All car dealers overcharge whats new ?

Labrat actually i could see you in a Lexus is 250 with your cardigan and golf bags

Michael

labrat

You dwell in fantasy land, Michael:

- Us scientists are way too cool to drive Lexus
- I couldn't wear a cardigan over my lab coat
- I don't play golf. My lab coat would interfere with my swing

Revolver

Go labby, go labby, go labby...

Grizzly8

Bill Gates drives a Lexus but he also has a Jet plane boats and donates part of his 85 Billion Dollars to Scientists

Michael

NickG

Michael FYI 335i 6 sp manual is $108k + on roads, and comes fully loaded ( VERY unusual for a bimmer)- voice control sat nav, TV, 18"alloys, dual steerable HID headlamps, decent hifi, incredible range of seat adjustments including backrest width + cushion length, rain sensing wipers, front and rear radar bla bla bla. Lacks only sunroof.
I need 4 proper seats so for me the comparison was easy, but I think the car's other attributes would have swayed me anyway, given my particular driving interests.
Mine doesn't arrive till December but I've spent a few hours ALONE on demanding roads behind the wheel of a demonstrator 335i over last weekend. If you are interested in any observations vs RX8 you are welcome to PM me.

Revolver

You make a persuasive argument Nick but I just can't warm to the styling of the new 3 series range. Obviously a subjective thing.

It also seems pretty good value (for a Bimmer) but at nearly twice the price it should brain the RX8 in every dept.

Please post some pics of your new beast when you take delivery.

NickG

I'm with you on the sedan Revolver, but fortunately the coup looks quite different. It's not enthralling to look at like a TT, but understated and smart IMHO. The best of the Bangled bimmers, though that's not saying much I know!
Here are some decent pics in the colour I have on order

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...t=18070&page=4

Cheers
Nick

Grizzly8

Nick

Great to see a BMW in a different colour all i see on the coast is Silver and Black Beemers .

If i was a working proffesional it would be a very acceptable ride but its o so Angelic , i need a car that has more casual leisurely attitude as i am out of the daily rat race

Michael

NickG

LOL Michael!

Revolver

Thanks for the pics Nick.

I agree it's an improvement over the sedan but it still doesn't do it for me. Can't quite put my finger on what it is. It's not quite ugly, not quite boring. Just looks a little awkward to me.

I mean, I still look at my 8 now and think, "that's one damn fine looking car". Couldn't see myself ever doing that with the Bimmer, no matter how much I might enjoy its mechanical ability.

Guess it proves that emotion is a big driver with car purchasing.

I'll check 'em out in the metal at the Motorshow though. Might change my mind a little.

NickG

Agreed on the emotion bit! If you can't "connect" with a car on that level, you'll never be happy with it. For me though appearance is just another part of the package. When I bought the RX8 I did so foremost because I liked what it did and how it did it. The fact that it also looked kind of funky and original was just a nice bonus.

On your point that a car which costs nearly double should brain the RX8 in every department, I think you are lining yourself up for a disappointment. What the RX8 does well, it does very well indeed. IMHO the two standout attributes of the RX8 are its steering, and its agility. Very few cars will convincingly outdo it in these specific areas. You'll need to think in terms of a Porsche Boxter/Cayman or Lotus Elise/Exige to achieve this.

This was really brought home in my test drive of the 335i. On very, very tight, demanding narrow roads all its extra power, flexibility and finesse provide no advantage vs the RX8 at all. It's only when the roads open out a little, and hairpins change to sweepers that the 335i can stretch its legs and deliver what you paid for, balancing its chassis on a fine edge and catapulting you out of corners in a way I've certainly never experienced before.

In the end, every car is a set of compromises. The RX8 is remarkably uncompromised in a few key areas that are important to keen drivers. That's why it's so freakin' hard to replace. In my case I was prepared to compromise funky, unique looks, and some steering precision and agility for more power, refinement, way better finish, space and true comfort for 4. There are other ways to skin this particular cat for sure, but not many of them that I can see!

Revolver

That all makes a lot of sense Nick.

It's always great to exchange these views. For me it helps to decide what I want and what is the best compromise.

As handling is where it's at for me atm, I'm happy to stick with the 8. I can live with the finish of the 8 and the space is adequate for my present needs. As the mini terrorists get older I may have a different view though.

As for power, I think a conservative FI mod on the 8 would give me all the power I can usefully use (at a much cheaper price than the Bimmer). As it is, the 8 is quick enough in atmo form to have a lot of fun (and get in a lot of trouble ).

I'm actually starting to think that when my car runs out of warranty in a bit over a year's time I might just trade up (sideways? ) to a new 8 and transfer my mods to that. By that time the FI scene might be a little more established (and hopefully a tad cheaper).

The only problem with that strategy is deciding on a colour.

yellowrx8inoz

^^ Yeah pity they stopped making yellow, huh?
(had to get it in first LOL)

Revolver

Nothing like kicking off a colour war for excitement on a Friday morning...

I'll leave you all to it - I'm sailing on the Harbour in a charity race today.

NickG

FI makes sense to me, escpecially if you're still happy with the rest of the package and the zidz ain't too big yet. Colour is easy: just get a WHITE one, then you can spray it whatever you like when you get home.

Revolver

I like the idea of a white one with FI and these rims (Volk TE37 magnesium).

Grizzly8

Maybe a 3 series convertible with metal folding roof is the way to go .

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/first_o...sid=245&page=1

Michael

EZZY

oh no... dejavu.... not again...

xxup

Looks like a Renault Megane..

Grizzly8

Hmmmm how about this the Audi A5 coupe and later it will come as a convertable

http://www.jalopnik.com/cars/audi/is...-a5-154832.php


Michael