Kas

Hi All,

I'll try and cut a loooong story short.

I took my car in yesterday to have the baffles in the sump changed..i recieved a call a few hours later to some bad news.

My dealer told me that there was a problem with my engine and they would have to keep the car until next tuesday or there abouts.. i kept asking q's until they finaly told me that for some reason my engine had been leaking coolant through the housings which were cracked. My car is 1 week old and has 1400kms.

Basicly the engine was shot through..

In return they have offered to replace my engine with a brand new replacement and thats about it...

At this stage I am utterly disgusted with the ordeal and wish i'd never have purchased the only seemingly existant dud.

After talking with a Mazda customer service manager, i requested my car be replaced and/or a refund issued. They have said no no no.

They did initialy offer me an extended warranty and a hire car to which I am not satisfied. Having dealing with them throughout the day I have managed to negotiate an extended warranty and 2 free services (10k - 20k) no hire car.

I personaly feel that i've wasted my 60+ thousand dollar purchase and have lost complete satisfaction with my car. confidence in reliability has sunk to an all time low and only time can tell what the outcome will be..

If anyone can help me here i'd be most appreciative. I do want a replacement car knowing that my car is only a WEEK OLD! However there is still a sour sour taste lingering in my mouth.

This is my 5th mazda car, hows that for goodwill.

Lock & Load

KAS
The only way mazda will get you a brand new car and not just a replacement engine is if you have a determined plan .
1ST contact a solicitor ask about your rights , and get solicitor to writte letter to mazda head office ,
2nd Do not negotiate with them only use your solicitor and keep everything in writting , verbal agreements are woth jack **** especially from car dealers .
3rd contact comsumer affairs as to your rights .
Only by yelling long and loud enough will mazda get you .a new car .
contact MALCOLM GOUGH (ceo mazda australia ) let him know your problem use solicitors letter .

Threaten to go public to car magazines etc place adds in newspapers re your experience ,the last thing they want is bad publicity on a brand new car .

If you want a brand new car you have to fight for it , use all types of mediam to discredit the dealer and insist on new car not just the engine .
GOOD LUCK.

Kas

Thanks L&L, I have contacted them to reject their petty offer. I went down to see my car (in bits). Its not looking healthy.

I'm awaiting a call from senior management which should be tonight.

Please make note, all readers.

Mazda has been extremely helpfull throughout the process and rest assure this is a one off ocurance. I love the car i really do, i woulnt have sold my s6 for it otherwise.

I dont want to give the car a bad name, all i want is proper justice. Mazda is obliged to fix the problem under warranty, however the car WAS given to me in this condition sold AS NEW NOT demo or 2nd, NEW.

timbo

Kas

Really bad luck, mate

As L&L says, you need to have a carefully thought through strategy on this, and work closely with a solicitor who is well versed in consumer affairs issues. Avoid playing for publicity too early -- it sometimes backfires.

In practice, I have seen cars replaced but this has tended to occur where there has been a series of often unrelated faults -- used to go by the classic 'Monday' or 'Friday' car description -- an obvious lemon.

I am not sure you can make that claim yet. And you need to consider the consequences of making such a claim: it will be a very protracted process, and my bet is that at the end of it, if you were to be successful, they will say "OK, you have now been put on the list for the first available unsecured car, which we expect in Jan 2005 -- after all, we can't hijack someone else's pre-order, can we!"

Perhaps better to play reasonable and get as much support in terms of warranty and servicing, and cost of motoring while your vehicle is off the road -- and I think you need a better deal on all of this than you have thus far -- extended warranty to at least five years, full service costs met through until 100,000k, rental car. I would think Mazda (not the dealer) would ultimately be prepared to agree to something in this space, to avoid any adverse publicity for their no 1 hit just now.


As an aside, a friend of mine had a Range Rover replaced -- about 15 years ago, after a litany of faults and breakdowns (like, 5 pages of them, in the first 9 months). It was a true lemon -- the motor didn't motor, the transmission didn't transmit, and then, of course, it was beset by Lucas, Prince of Darkness! The last straw was when it broke down on a dirt track in the Hunter Valley -- not particularly challenging. Just dumped its transmission fluid out of pure petulance. That was after dumping coolant etc on previous occasions. All photographed

The persuasive factor (apart from my friend being a barrister) was the full page ad he mocked up for insertion in the Financial Review, showing the poor bleeding RR on this dirt track, with text covering the litany of faults. This was sent to the MD of RR Aust, at the end of a series of unhelpful exchanges, accompanied by the note, "this is booked for next Monday's paper!" Not an urban myth -- it really happened!

Unfortunately, you are not in that position and I hope you never are.

Please keep us updated.

Timbo

Kas

timbo, thanks for the write up, you really did put some effort into it.

My mazda dealer just called me back and said that after speaking with the customer service manager that I wont get too much further and in-fact they said they should'nt have offered me the extended warranty in the first place. However I will not let this sway my opinion. They are smarter than me and I guess more experianced in this. I'll try stick to my initial idea of a replacement car as I will not be signing any release forms for my current dud.

Any lawyers wanna lend a hand. I'm a 21 year old thats worked hard to save every cent thats gone into this car, i really cant afford legal costs.

msydd

Kas - got to say I really second timbo's comments.

This is a great car, and with a new engine it is likely you will once again be happy.

In my experience, legal proceedings never have a happy outcome for either party. It drags on and the resentment and stress just keep on growing.

I recommend driving the best deal you can get from Mazda...and then put it behind you and enjoy the car.

Either way, I think you're right to not sign anything until you've thought it through... good luck !

Kas

Thanks for the support.

Still thinking..

sco

Kas,

I'm not sure what I would do in your position and I hope it doesn't happen to me or anyone else.

Take a deep breath. Think about how you want to get out of this situation. You need to decide what you want to do yourself to solve this issue and be firm once you've made your decision.

Let me play devils advocate here for a second though and paint a worst case scenario.

Your engine is a dud - cracked housing - your car is off the road. You yell at the dealer and Mazda -- I want a new car. But, it's not in their financial interests to give you a new car as they'll lose thousands selling it used or as an ex-demo. They're prepared to fight and lets assume they don't care about the publicity, this is a once off.

You go through a long protracted debate, involving lawyers and letters back and forth and hundreds if not thousands of dollars in legal fees. It takes you weeks if not months to sort this out. Meanwhile, your car sits in a garage, unfixed, and depreciating. After a number of weeks or months you end up in in a tribunal and the judge says Mazda was reasonable in their offer to replace your engine, but they don't have to do it - they only need to replace the cracked housing. You get your car back with new housing only.

You're bitter, you're twisted, you want to love the car, but you hate it because of all the pain you've gone through. You sell the car and lose thousands in the process.

Now this is the worst case scenario, but a possible scenario.

Is a new engine with compensation, like what Timbo is suggesting a reasonable outcome, given that you'll be on the road again quickly, with "as good as new"?

Again, I don't know what I would do in your shoes. You need to decide what is your minimum acceptable outcome and work towards ensuring you get at least that. What solution will you be least unhappy with when you look back in three years time at the whole affair?

HTH

sco

Lock & Load

Kas Legal aid is wothwhile approach as it is free , talk to them , if all else fails send a mock up copy of a draft add that you will place in every newspaper in australia if your problems arent resolved , the last thing mazda wants is bad publicity , the rx8 is a great car but at1400km to have your problems they should replace your car. often a scarry bluff will get upper management wooried , send a copy to the ceo (malcolm gough )then he will be forced to step in and sort out your problem , dont deal with junior management go straight to the top.

Kas

sco, i see your point.

I may be prepared to take up the extended warranty + free servicing for the life of the warranty. Mazda can service their engine as mine is on its way back to japan.

As a worst case thats about it. As far as personal feelings go, the car will never be the same, however over time reliability may make me zoom zoom again.

Kas

L&L,

Legaly, Mazda is obliged to fix the problem under warranty, wether it be the housing or a seal. Instead thay have been generous enough to offer a replacement engine, however that car should'nt have been put on the road in the first place.

Its tricky, as mazda is doing what they are obliged to however i'm seeking goodwill and loyalty being my 5th mazda car, and my first brand spanker i really do expect more.

I will be getting a call in the morning from senior management as requested and will see what they have to say. I've heard some horror stories from rx7 owners and their dealings with un-qualified mazda technitions. I'd rather take my 8 to MazTech of melbourne and have them do the work.

Lock & Load

KAS

Talk to the horses head and not its tale , senior management will be embaressed if you present your views to the ceo of mazda , because he then will be made aware of the situation and will then tell senior management to resolve things quicker , i have spoken to Malcolm GOUGH and he is a reasonable bloke if you can not speak to him e-mail him , often middle management are restrained in their decisions , and have to play by the rules
malcolm can overide anything appeal to his human nature .

eg ;; 21years old ,1st new car , worked hard to buy dream car , owned 5 other mazdas etc .
Best of luck.
michael

Kas

Will do Mike, Thanks heaps for your help!!

Kev

"The shell is for you and the shell is for me, the pearl is but the lawyer's fee".

Keep is personal, honest and passionate.

The Japanese are known for their pride in their deevelopments and the products they produce. I believe that you will receive the best possible service and gain the right outcome if you make the effort to contact and discuss your problem with the right people in an open and sensible manner.

On the "lemon car" issue, engines are not built on the same line as the car. If your car is good and your engine is bad, your existing car and a new engine is a good thing, don't stress on the offer of an engine replacement.

Things go wrong and warranties are there to protect you. I know the engine is a major component - but it's not the whole car.

Mazda Australia will do everything to protect their local profitability, A quirk with a bad engine, replaced and a happy customer is good press - a drawn our legal wrangle is bad press....

If you go for the gun, get ready to be shot. There are better solutions.

My 2 cents, Kev.

Kas

Kev, i read ya.

Who knows, the engine may out-preform most others..

My point is, if the car had been fixed prior to selling it wouldnt have been sold as new.

Kev

Trouble is, the only thing we can't change is history :D

Of all of us, you'll probably have the opportunity to get to know more useful people inside Mazda personally and end up with a car that's been checked over far better than any pre delivery wizz through.

I know it's a crap feeling to be dealt a bad hand, but there's a set of rules in place that ensure that you'll come out on top as long as you play the game the right way.

Me? I'd just say "Looks guys, I could be your best advert or your worst nightmare - just do a fair thing by be and I'll be happy and I won't hesitate when it comes to singing your praises."

Nobody can afford a bad customer these days if they have one ounce of grey matter. (or is it gram these days?)

labrat

Kas,

I agree with those posters who have advised caution. I can understand your disappointment, but they have offered to rectify the problem. These things will happen - that's what statistics is all about. 99.99% fault-free means 0.01% problems. That's what the warranty is there for. It's not a lemon like the Range Rover mentioned previously. I note you are 21. You won't remember the days when quality control in the automobile industry was non-existent. This is one of the reasons for the dominance of the Japanese in the car game.

By all mans try and negotiate a few sweeteners on top of the new motor, but don't get lawyered up about this. It really is a no win situation. There are those who have sufficient time and money to enjoy the legal argy bargy, but the rest of us would rather chew broken glass than associate with lawyers.

Do what others have suggested: sit down, decide what you want (NOT a new car - you have a duff motor - the rest of the car is presumably OK), and work hard to get your car with replacement engine back on the road as soon as possible, plus get a few extras on the side. A sensible Mazda dealer will want your car back for servicing (they make lots of money out of their service department), so as long as you are reasonable in your demands, you'll get something out of it.

Kas

I'll speak to Mazda ceo tomorrow, and make my decision based on what they have to say.

I dont want this to drag on, however by the sounds of it, i've purchased the worst rx8 yet.

I've got an idea as to what I want in return, and yes its realistic. Extended warranty and free servicing, i do think thats fair concidering the history that the car has obtained in its first week.

8_wannabe

One other bit of leverage you may have with them. In america, when you have repairs done, you have the right to keep the old parts that were removed if you so request in writing. If that's true where you live, request to keep the old engine. They will freak and say you can't, which will be bogus (if your laws are like ours.) I know they'll wanna send your old engine back to the factory for a post mortem. Use this as leverage to get what you want. Best wishes and sorry 'bout the bad deal.

zoom44

KAS you keep saying things like "they shouldn't have sold it as new." do you have reason to believe that this car was a demonstrator and they failed to tell you this? if you have some kind of proof of this than you should use it. how many Kilometers were on the odometer when you picked it up?

Kas

The Car had 2.1kms on the clock, i was very specific about this when I ordered it.

I spoke to mazda ceo earlier, he said they they cant offer a replacement car for a few reasons, and I guess a main reason is the fact that they dont have any here which is bullsh*t, however I did say that an extended warranty and free servicing for the life of the warranty would put a sweeter taste in my mouth about the situation.

I dont think its that much to ask for.

timbo

Kas

Stick to your guns with that request:

Extended warranty
Free servicing for the life of that warranty
Free loaner car while yours is off the road and at all service points.

I think we all agree that is fair and reasonable, whereas a replacement car is asking too much -- it's just the motor -- and persisting on that will just bring the shutters down.

I also liked the idea about access to your old parts -- am not sure of the situation in Australia but I have certainly had the old parts given to me in the past (BMW did this) and it seems logical as they are yours.

I would say that reasonable compensation and the cost of them not giving you back the original motor -- which is your property and which, presumably, Mazda want (and we all want them to have, for research) is the warranty, service and loan car.

Get firm in your mind what you want, be resolute and stick to it -- they can't just take your motor back without your permission, at the very least.

Timbo

Kas

Yeah, I feel my new request is realistic and fair to both parties.

I want Mazda to take the engine for research for the benefit of all our cars. It may be a problem in the making that others have overlooked. The reason the problem was found was when I had the sump removed and some coolant was noticed, the car however was still running fine..

timbo

Exactly Kas, it's in all our (and Mazda's) interests, and what you are seeking is fair and reasonable compensation.

Now, mine is getting done tomorrow, and I hope there are no nasty surprises

Timbo

Kas

Yeah, it may be worth a mention to get them to check. I even had coolant on the top of the engine let along in the sump!

My dealer has told me that there has been alot of calls to them from other dealers concerned with the problem and seeking a possible reason/solution.