Hi Folks,

Recently gotten bitten by the track bug. The RX8 is a pretty good balanced car but wanted to get more control from the suspension, especially if switching on over to semi's.

Noticed that a couple of guys had Racing Logic coilovers in their Sigs...wanted to ask some feedback on how they go. A member on the board had some experience with the Hyper series, whats the main difference to the ultra complex on the racing logic website?

Cant decide between these coilovers that come quite recommended (good value) or a set of Bilstein HD's with a new set of springs. Flexibility or simplicity?

Intend to track the car once a month and its a weekend driver the rest of the time. Semis for the track and normal Bridgestone's daily.

Looking forward to hearing back from you all.

Many Thanks,
R

 

Suggest you have a chat to auzoom about tracking with racing logic coil overs as he has had them for sometime now. He & others can also provide comments on coil overs v shocks & springs for tracking.

BTW what state/area do you live in?

 

Thanks for the reply. Im currently based in Sydney.

Definitely be interested in chatting with fellow RX8 owners who track their cars. Leaning towards keeping it simple with Bilstein HD's but the coilovers and its adjust ability is definitely tempting.

Wanted to get more info on how the Racing Logics go. Tried getting more technical questions through sending an email to Racing Logic themselves but did not get a reply.

R

 

some of the bilstein hd (and pss9) owners isn't too happy with them on the track. I mean on the street it's excellent, but not as hardcore on the track as others. There are other brands out there for rx-8 coilover, such as buddy club, tein, etc. Lots of people here has all different brand of coilover, so you should get some good response.

 

I have Racing Logic "competition" coilovers (thats what the box says). I take the car to the track regularly and have found them to be great.(sway bars are good too) The car is more stable and predictable through corners as it should be with a coilover upgrade. As far as the set up concerned,I got the height and damper adjustable shocks as I thought I would change and adjust them all the time. I never have. I got Ric Shaw to put them on for me and asked him to set the height and dampening for a track setting,as I was heading there that weekend. I was surprised at how well they went on the road.He only lowered the car about 2cm and made them quite firm but not rock hard as I thought they would be,so driving on the street with them isnt what I would call comfortable in that setup but it is more than ok to drive around when I do with them like that.By the way,I have another car as a daily and just use the RX8 at the track and on weekends. So I have just left them set up like that. So I suppose for me the adjustability for now, wasnt necessary.
As far as the other guy that had issues with his Racing logic shocks,as I remember. he had the car sitting as low as it can go and it was causing rattling issues and had very hard springs over the shocks(you can tell Racing Logic what spring rate you want when you order them)these two factors when combined were making a clunking noise that was fixed when the height was changed and the springs changed.
I cant remember what spring rate I got front and back but I would recommend at least speaking to Ric Shaw about it and he can help point you in the right direction.I asked him if the car should go lower than 2cm(roughly) down and he said that that was the optimum height for the best roll centre. So I have seen much lower cars(for looks) but this setup works well.
Hope this helps..

 

Hi Robcee,
I note that you indicate you have "recently been bitten by the track bug". I assume this means you have not had much on track experience . If you are very new to this my advice would be to get out there and drive the car in standard form on whatever tracks you plan to utilize. Keep an accurate log book with details of weather and general track conditions, tyre pressures etc . After you have been to the same venue a few times, noted all the variables (eg changed tyre pressures, different length of time spent on the track, sunny or cloudy day, high humidity, slipstream from car in front etc etc ) and do not believe you can go any quicker you could then look at throwing some money at the car . You should try and make incremental changes rather than changing a whole lot of things at once. Each time you front up at the track your previously recorded data (including lap times) will soon tell you if your modifications have been worth the expenditure.
On the other hand if you have done all of the above ignore my advice , consult a reputable suspension expert and go for some handling enhancements but bear in mind that what works for one particular driving style may not be as useful for a different driver. (and of course your new suspension setup might not be as effective as the original on a wet track)

 

OK well as Matt and Kall have eluded to the issues are as follows.

Racing Logics are designed to be a track based coilover. They are not designed for everyday driving.They are extremely high spring rates and extremely stiff struts.

Matt pointed out that the springs on the Racing Logics are not designed to have the car sitting on its rails. You can do it, but you will end up with your rear springs binding as I had with a 35mm drop (I had a fairly big run in with the local distributor while we identified this issue). Matt and I have discussed ride heights and we have ended up with very similar setups.

As to Kalls leaking strut, I have my suspicions that a less that optimum initial install lead to this.

Overall I love them when I am on the track, but on the road I get a bit pissy with them (not their fault really). The only fault on the track is the lack of feedback on the adjustment. However speaking with the local distributor recently he mentioned that the second generation out now has this as well as a wider range of adjustment. Question is if they will bring them out here for the RX8.

If you are going to use them for street use and ride comfort is a big concern I would go for something like Tein which are a much more comfortable street ride.

Hope that helps.

Cheers

Andrew

 

PS The Bilsteins are supposed to be an awesome setup...you can step up to adjustables if you want. Also, PM me with details and I will see if I can get the RL Distributor in touch.

 

Thanks for the reply folks. Much obliged.

My background is primarily in Karting back in the day...way back. Just recently got into tracking my road car. have to say, not all that comfortable with the black art of suspension tuning. Would much rather adjust sways and tire pressures to adjust handling. Quite content to keep the car stock since even with the soft suspension there is a pretty good amount of grip available. A track day at Oran park which chewed up my road rubber spurred on a recent rethink about having a separate set of tires for track work. I dont think the stock setup would be able to maximize the additional traction provided by the track tires. Too much roll could have the car hopping around the bends. Anyone one run their 8 with track rubber on stock shocks?

Black 8, what issues have folks run into with Bilstein HD's on track? Havent had much experience with Jap shocks in the past, always ran Euro stuff (Bilstein, Sach and Konis) but the few times I have come across them,the valving and spring rate choice has always been a bit hard for my taste...wouldn't normally consider the Racing Logics had they not come recommended.

mattdrift, quite like your setup mehn. which Racing Logics do you have, the green ones or the black ones? Did you get yours from Rick Shaw? Ive been down to his shop and he is the one who suggested that for my intended purpose that coilovers would suit me well. After a couple of days on the track with the stock setup im of the belief that a stock 8 doesn't need much lowering to get the most out of its tires. Your 2cm drop is similar to the drop of the racing beat springs which I am also considering. Are you a Sydneysider? Everyone else on this forum seems to be from Victoria.

missyk, why the change over from konis? what springs were you running at the time? a lot of the US guys seem to like the Koni and (insert spring here) combo for auto-x. Ive ran Koni's on Eibachs before and quite liked them, but my leaning towards Bilsteins this time around is due to the thinking that the bilsteins damping would better match the nature of the 8, should be good for the road...not too sure for the track (hence the post I suppose) thoughts?

stevefredbelle, totally agree with you about the importance of track time and data logging as a first 'mod'. One of the reasons for my choosing the 8 was to have a well balanced car that can circulate the track all day and get the driver involved in the driving. Your right about the driving style and shock setup as well, for my purpose with the 8, I just want it in the right ballpark to get the most out of the tracktime i have available. Right again on the stock setup in the rain (recently been out to Wakefield in the rain to attest, its not bad) but this is more due to the fact that most coilovers are setup too stiff for the rain, a couple of adjustments could make it much easier to live with (ride height, damping or if really keen, spring choice). As much as I want to work on the driving alone, its much easier to be consistent when the tools are well balanced...good advice though. May still just follow it too.

auzoom, how adjustable is the range in the shock? you mentioned that there isnt any clicks on the shock, how do you go from one setting to the other? paint market points? Ive read your post on the Racing Logic coilovers which didnt do my confidence in the brand much good. The fact that drifters use them (i.e. stiffly sprung setups) also was a concern. You mentioned that you were playing around with spring rates, what did you end up with? If I go Bilsteins id stick to the simple HD's, follow the KISS principle.

Thanks again for the replies, apologies for the long reply, note really big on posting on forums and not to savvy on the best way to reply to these things. Hope you all stay keen on bouncing around ideas.

Cheers,
R

 

The US guy claimed the bilstein shocks are too soft for track work. Have a search on this forum on "Bilstein" and you'll find several posts and reviews on them.

 

Thanks for the detailed response to the various suggestions robcee. I had to laugh when I saw that you have a background in karting as much of my suggestions were based on a 5 year stint in karting ((plus a lot of years in rallying and a not too successful couple of years in F vee )
Apart from the people who have already responded here with information it might be worth looking at some previous posts from Glenn . He hails from my neck of the woods (Ballarat) and while I do not know him very well (I bought a Mazda Familia 4wd turbo from him once) he has a good record of punting high power RX7's quickly in hillclimbs and not too long ago started tracking an RX8. If you look at his old posts you will see that he observed the Rx8 was quick in standard form and he has a few other comments on what happened when he ran different tyres .

 

Since you're tossing up different options and aren't yet sold on coilovers, let me give you another one.

I've got MazdaSpeed shocks and springs.

Pros - tuned for the car, not expensive ($1,100 landed when ordered from onlinemazdaparts.com), only a 2cm drop in height, stiffer than stock but not too punishing for street use.

Cons - not adjustable.

I've found them to be a great compromise between stock suspension and the allout adjustable coilover option.

Whilst I can see the advantages of coilovers, I have to question whether many drivers truly need and thoroughly utilise the additional benefit on offer. IMHO, you have to be a pretty damn good track driver to need them to improve your times (as distinct from just more practice, etc).

 

Lots of people with very little difference to aftermarket coilovers.

Only the ones who count joking

I can had an interesting time at Sandown a while ago in the wet. Was running some pretty ordinary times and on suggestion from the Instructors softened up the rear by about half and the front by half that again and ended up running some great times. That alone made the purchase worthwhile.

Very, on their softest setting with the 9/5 springs it becomes almost stupidly bouncy.

Pure Guestimates. I generally reset back to either full hard or soft, noting how far I go.

As mentioned above, I ended up with 9kg front and 5kg rear. I think 7 and 4 is plenty enough for the 8 and combined with a nicer euro strut would be heaven. I am aiming to have the KW Variant 3's when I change these.

Just a suggestion, look into the Series 2 Bilsteins.

Cheers

Andrew

 

Hi Rob, Yes I live in sydney(north) and yes I bought and had them installed by Ric Shaw. They are green and black(suspiciously similar to the tein colour scheme) and they say Racing Logic "competition series" on the box. I'd say their the same ones that Ric Shaw was talking about. Hope the suspension plans are going well..

 

Choices choices.

Black-8 - had a search over at the other sections of the forums. Most of the US guys race in Auto-x...slightly different settings to track days in setup. Although Track addict seemed to like em. Was hoping someone had them on the Aussie side of life and gave them a go in Eastern Creek or Wakefield and also going to Eastern Creek and Wakefield.

Stevefredbelle - my karting seems like a lifetime ago. but have to say couldn't get the bug out of the system. Was considering a Evo 7 as my track weapon of choice but the classic handling of the RX8 won out...for now anyway. Trying to get a hang of feeling a car again. All those years spent driving a FWD/Auto's didn't do the senses much good...or was it something else Ive done that deadened the senses...not quite sure.

Revolver - Not looking for the ultimate laptime just yet but I am looking for consistency in laptimes. More stability and control through the body, while not necessary, would make my life easier. I noticed your a sydneysider, there is trackday in Wakefield on the 24th...why dont you come along....

MissyK - gotcha. Do you adjust you coilovers or more the set and forget?

Andrew - Not to familiar with series 2 Bilsteins...had a look at the Bilstein website and the RX8 only had a PSS9 and HD application.

matt - same invite as revolver. be good to have a couple of rx8's in the field. ive never been to one of these guys events but from the look of it they seem quite organized. http://www.circuitclub.com.au/. Would be great to talk track and see your cars in action

Still undecided on the suspension. Sways are going in for the 24th will probably reassess after the event.

Thanks for the replys folks.

 

Rob,would love to come on the 24th but can't make it.I was at wakefield last saturday and I am going again on the 9th march. I go with the RENEW(rotary enthusiasts of nsw) club. There is a great mix of all kinds of rotarys and everyone is friendly. There is a thread I wrote on it with the details if you are keen. I am the only rx8 usually and would love to see some more there..

 

Rob - thanks but I'm in the same boat as Matt. If I had time this month I'd be going down to Winton this weekend instead anyways.

Trying to make 9 March - you should go along as Matt will be there at least...

 

No worries folks. Will try to look into the 9th of March but my month is already looking pretty full.

Cheers,

 

Just to throw another item in the mix. You might consider teh Tein Flex damper kit with the EDFC controller kit. Coupled with some stiffer sway bars and you have a set-up that you will give you the best of all worlds. An almost stck ride for daily commute stuff to a really stiff/solid ride and 32 positions in between.

Front and rears a can be set independantly and you can have three pe-sets (of your choosing).

Cheers.... Otto