matt13b

I notice the new RX8 has a new oil metering system and also 2 knock sensors in the engine(I presume the series 1 only has one). Does anyone know if we could retro-fit these things to our engines to make them more reliable or is this a dumb question??
If so,what do you think the cost would be and what would be involved?

takahashi

Oil metering system is run by ECU. So retrofit....... the brain will not attach to it.

Same as crank sensor......

matt13b

Well that nips that in the butt..Thanks Taka.

ASH8

yeah, forget it, would be a nightmare.

auzoom

Hey matt, you nip things in the bud not butt

If you are interested look at the SOHN adapter. Its the next best thing.

Cheers

Andrew

DMRH

If you are concerned about Oil metering, or lack of as per 13B-MSP specs why not use a little "Pre-mix" in the tank. I do. Its easy once you get into a routine.

REgards

Revolver

I thought the guru jury was still out on pre-mix?

mysql

premix works great. I do both. Sohn and premix. My engine was spotless inside. Mirror finish and no real wear because I also got to use synthetic (since the engine oil isn't injected into the combustion chamber, thus anyone against synthetic has no complaint)

Revolver

Interesting. Thanks for the feedback.

ASH8

Dave,
Seriously try pre-mix.
IMO it will be the best thing you have ever done to your 8 and it will thank you for it.
Why, that extra lube in fuel will improve compressions (particularly as your car is increasing in age/mileage), run smoother and yes slightly quieter, will improve MPG because of betters sealing and compressions.
When I get mine I will be doing it from new...1 to 2 mils a litre.
Any synth two stroke will do, don't use the one for marine engines.
AMSOIL SABER PRO and MOTUL 710 or 800 are excellent.
Just try it Dave.

rotarenvy

I was thinking that it is mainly the engine management that was the problem because of the new oil metering pump and new crank trigger.

if you swap the crank trigger disks and oil metering pump the swap might be possible?

matt13b

Sounds feasible but well beyond my mechanical expertise unfortunately. Would be good if tuning shops could do it as a re-spec deal or something??

rotarenvy

I'd only consider it if I blow my motor, which might not be that far off

erx8s

Using pre-mix can also cause problems with your 02 sensors and stuff up your catalyctic converter

Ash 8 .....from reading another thread i though you were dead set against using Pre-mix how come the sudden change of opinion ?

Ash 8 posted this on this thread page 2 .

https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...ht=pre-mix+oil


"What the hell are you trying to do here, re-invent the bloody wheel!!!
Mazda have been developing the rotary long before many of you were born!...
YOU ARE NOT THE EXPERTS you think you are!..
Just put the correct engine oil and fuel in your 8 and let the Metering Oil Pump do its job.
External pumps with tanks, what a load of crap, a rotary is NOT a Kawasaki 2 stroke!
DONT use any PRE Mixes!"


Cheers
Michael

ASH8

Michael,
I have not looked back to above post, for memory think I was commenting on guys trying to alter MOP settings and adding on separate feeding adapters and tanks.
This is before the obvious conclusions by MMC that their lubrication of Apex Seals in series 1 RX-8's have been some what lacking by the introduction of 2 extra nozzles and the EMOP...something Mazda did not want to ever do in my time.
Yes I was against pre-mixing in high doses, for the reasons you mentioned (Cat), and still are ,however at a ratio up to 2 mil a litre, it is not going to harm.

Indeed, Mazda Dealers use 2 stroke 'neat' or similar to free up sticking apex or corner seals, again nothing new..this was done 30 years ago..we used to use REDEX....the big white cloud.
Like many mods, owners can and do go overboard, and I still call it crap.

But YES I have changed my mind on a "mild" use of Pre-mix.

ASH8

To answers Matts question on retro fitting to series 2 EMOP...just to clarify...
forget it mate.

1. How are you going to add an extra injector into each rotor housing without a rebuild.
2. The cost of purchasing the EMOP and ALL the New electric cabling to and from the NEW PCM would also be a task in itself...
3. Plus any labor costs an incidentals..

You might as well go out and buy a new Series 2.!

rotarenvy

Ash what I was talking about is buying the new short block with the extra oil injectors.

I was thinking it is unlikely they have changed the front housing casting so the old oil metering pump may just bolt up.

you may need to tap into one of the lines to connect the additional oil metering injector. but since the old pump is a positive displacement the injection doesn't change (have to think about that one)? or at least you get a better distribution of oil across the apex seal.

you have the old oil metering pump and the crank trigger is a bolt on swap. then the std computer would run the show. you would then have the major beneficial revision of the better oil injection.

as I said it is only worth the labor if your motor pops. but why put a series one back in? they would have to be cheap IMO.

ASH8

If you are talking genuine Mazda, what do you call a "short block" in a rotary.
Again, Mazda only had complete rotary engines as a genuine replacement at $12,000, you only had to add your existing electrics, fuel and exhaust parts.

Are you sure the new "injectors" would work and lines can be installed from series 1. I think someone said here that the new 8 EMOP is in a different location and the old front housing has a blank plate over the old MOP location.

rotarenvy

yeah I haven't seen the new motor yet so it is just speculation.
the other way would be to get just the oval housings (whatever they are called) where the injectors are installed use them for the re-build.

enforcer

Two questions.

1. Does anyone have any evidence the mixing 2 ml per litre of premix per litre of fuel will stuff the cat?

2. Is there any chance this would have an adverse effect on an aging engine? (i.e. 50K+)

erx8s

As we know not all RX8,S are THE SAME some are running too rich others are too lean , certainly adding to high an amount can cause fouled spark plugs , problems with blocked 02 SENSORS AND CATS .

Trevor i have decided to use a 1.5 ml / per litre pre-mix and see what happens , i will let you know

Cheers
Michael

ASH8

Michael and Trev,

I think a 1.5 mil per litre mix is OK, up to 2 mil.
Don't forget it is only human nature to add that little more when estimating at petrol fill up, so over time the ratio will more than likely be higher.

Trev,
Many USA members are running 4 OZ per 16 gallon tank which is around the 1.5-2.0 mil per litre mark, with no apparent adverse reactions.
I know of Philip in South Africa has been using these ratio's for some time and his 8 is still going strong with 195,000 KMS (original engine), he has removed the CAT though?..not because of pre-mix.

IMO it is the high rates of 8 OZ per tank or 4 mils per litre that will create early aging issues with CAT, 02 sensors.

On the contrary I believe an aging engine will benefit from added lubricant to boost compressions, this has been shown in tests, particularly by Racing Rotary Teams.

enforcer

You're an experienced man Michael, so if you don't mind I'll hold off until I hear back from you...

Thanks Ash - I'll wait for Michaels status report. If his CAT blows up I think we'll all hear about it soon enough...

mac11

iTrader: (1)

Not sure what gurus you are talking about but rotary guys have been pre-mixing since before the advent of the rx7. Lots of race teams exclusively pre-mix and don't have separate oil injection.