NickG

Following is a more detailed review of the Toyo Trampio Gu:Wn ( otherwise known as Trampio TPG) after a few few thousand k's use.

I bought the Trampios after positive experience with the more expensive old Toyo Proxes T1-S on my last vehicle. The closest available fit for the standard rims is 245/40 x 18. I paid $300/tyre in Sydney. At the time of purchase they were in short supply and had to be freighted from WA, though Toyo said this was only a temporary problem.

The most impressive aspect of these tyres relative to the OEM RE040's is ride harshness and tyre noise. Both are very dramatically improved - particularly low speed ride harshness. For me this was the only significant weakness in the RX-8's otherwise very well sorted suspension setup. Similar problems exist with the Mazda 3 and 6, so I had assumed this was just an area of weakness for Mazda.

With the Trampios installed the car has quite literally been transformed in this area. With much of the harshness, rolling noise and cash/banging gone, the benefits of the incredibly supple, nicely damped suspension really come to the fore. The car simply feels in another league in terms of overall refinement. At freeway speeds in 6th gear I can now hear the stock exhaust gently burbling away, instead of the dreaded drumming from the RE040's. (It's not likely to put Hymee out of business, but it's a step in the right direction for me! )

We still haven't had enough rain in Sydney to really push the envelope in the wet, but the Trampios' dry grip is subjectively similar to or better than the RE040's. On challenging roads I notice DSC intervenes less frequently than before, for example. With DSC off there is certainly plenty of adhesion, plus very smooth breakaway at the limit ( always a nice thing to have!), and the 8's lovely balance is of course as evident as ever.

Negatives? Only one so far. The smooth ride obviously comes at the expense of sidewall stiffness - the RX-8 is not quite as responsive on turn in as was the case before. For some, this could well be a deal breaker. I'm talking relatives here however, and turn in is still more impressive than any other car I have previously owned.

In summary, the Trampios are certainly great value, very refined and make for an enjoyable to drive that capitalises on the intrinsic sophistication of the RX-8's basic suspension setup. However, they probably won't suit the hardest core drivers amongst us, who value absolute steering precision above all and are to prepared to either:

a) put up with a degree of ride harshness to achieve it OR

b) spend their way out of the problem by seeking out more costly "all-rounders" like the Proxes T1-R, Potenza S03 etc.

Hope this proves helpful...

Cheers Nick

labrat

Great review Nick! Your experience with the Trampios mirrors mine with the Fulda's very closely. Prices are similar too: the Fulda's were $326 a corner.

Revolver

Thanks Nick.

I've been tossing up what to replace the Bridgestones with when they wear out as I'd like to experiment a little.

What's the price differential between the Trampios and the Proxes??

timbo

Your experience with 245/40's mirrors mine. By rights, asa lower profile (ie, less sidewall) I was expecting a slightly harsher ride but far from it -- better than the OEM 225/45's

NickG

Revolver when I looked at it a couple of months back the Proxes were well over $100/tyre more. Given the increased wear rate you can also expect with these "ultra performance" tyres I couldn't justify the difference this time around.

I'm also inclined to the view that the RX-8 chassis doesn't place particularly high demands on its tyres. The fact that I got the best mileage out of the RE040's on the RX-8 compared with any tyre on any of my last 4 cars - despite equally "spirited" driving - tends to reinforce this.
Conversely some cars - like powerful front wheel drives, cars with massive reserves of torque, or cars with less inherently well balanced chassis - seem to scream out for high end tyres just to deliver an acceptable level of handling.....

NickG

Either that or our wider tyres are all flopping around more on rims that are..um.. slightly narower than optimal??

labrat

Once again, I'm inclined to agree. It was the noise rather than minimum tread which forced me to give mine away at 40k.

Concerning the sidewall stiffness thingy - right after I got my car, I had to drop in at the local Bob Jane to order a tyre for my wife's car. The manager came out to check the beast, and made the comment that the tyres seemed "stretched" on the rims, i.e. too narrow for the rims. Could this be a design ploy by Bridgestone to give a seemingly stiffer sidewall without reinforcing them?

I'm also prepared to listen to arguments that putting on a new meatier treaded tyre is going to give me a different feel in any case.

skc

I am sure road noise increased on mine as the tire tread has become lower.

I will be looking at a new set soon after Wakefield.

So, the 245/40 tires are narrower then the original???

What other size options are available.

skc

timbo

Yeah, as the Bridgestones wear they get really noisy

245/40 is narrower, as in sidewall height but wider as in footprint...there's not a lot of other options. 235/40 is technically out of limits in terms of sidewall height and speedometer error (but some have fitted them )

rotarenvy

I just realised on the weekend that I'm up for new tyres. freaked me out since the zeix-512's have only done about 7000km. they are mostly good but have 1mm of tread over the tread-wear indicators on the outside. I'll rotate them and get another 3-5k out of them but 12K km is not much out of a tyre that is this average in performance.

I was originally looking for the Trampios but got quoted nuts prices locally.

Z88M

i just put 245/40 x 18 Goodyear F1 GSD3s on the car and have similar feedback - it is certainly a different car with no tyre noise and the ride is much more supple. But it will not turn in now and the soft sidewalls on overly wide tyres for the rim even at 40psi have really dulled the steering feel for spirited driving. You can feel the tyres flexing under the rim during harder cornering, which reduces your confidence to be able to apply corrections quickly mid corner. They look great, are quiet and super smooth but this is a sports car not a limo - these big tyres gotta go!!

NickG

Jeez we're starting to get a consistent picture here with 245/40's. I wonder if anyone actually preserved or even improved on turn in by fitting this size tyre?

For what it's worth Z88M I ran the original Goodyear F1's a couple of cars ago on my Golf VR6- a car that was unbelievably heavy on tyres. They replaced a set of the wonderful Bridgestone S02's, and totally stuffed the steering feel on that car too. Very disappointing for an expensive tyre. They were great in the wet though....

Revolver

Have to say I'm reluctant to lose any turn-in ability just to make it a bit quieter and easier on the kidneys. I don't find either the noise or the ride a particularly big problem. Indeed, I think the car rides very well given its cornering ability.

If size is the issue, are there any alternatives to the OEM tyres in the same size or is that the only choice if you want to keep that size on the car??

timbo

It's almost 12mths since I went shopping, but the (available) alternatives in 225/45 then were Pirelli and Michelin....$$$

I don't think the Yoko 245s have affected turn-in too much, but there is definitely some squirm. However, I haven't tracked the car since I got them so will reserve judgement.....

Revolver

Oh dear - Even if they throw in a calendar I don't think I want to pay Pirelli prices.

Will be interested to see if there's been any detriment to your lap times come the Nats Timbo. Might be the best objective guide to whether the different size affects cornering speeds.

labrat

I'm not sure I've lost turn in ability, but then I wouldn't regard myself as an expert driver by any means. The car seems to go through my favourite twisty bits just as well as before if not better. I have a downhill curve on the way home which winds right up near the end. I seem to be able to go through about 5 km/h faster than before. It feels different, but on the balance, I think I've made a good choice for me.

I don't think you can universally say that 245/40 18 is a wrong choice: I think every tyre is different, and quite clearly some are better than others.

In thinking about the difference between the 225/45 Potenza's and the 245/40 size. The 245/40's seem much wider than the 225/45's, more than the 12.5mm difference on the recommended rim size would suggest. I think that the inward sloping walls on the Potenza's tend to reduce flex, and reduce the effective tread width. This would increase the weight per unit area bearing on the road, which might enhance grip but would not do much for tyre life. Also it would probably not do much for noise.

Revolver

Sounds like a fair analysis to me.

Maybe I'm just gonna have to get slightly wider rims! :D :D

xxup

Seems like even our OEM tyres are no longer available..

timbo

Well, that was the problem...they never really were "available". In fact when I first started to look and found Bridgestone only had two in Australia, I had my dealer on to the case, and I know the dealer principle rang the Mazda dealer relations person, to get Mazda onto Bridgestone...but alas, I heard nothing more

labrat

I was told by the people at Grand Prix Mazda that there is another complication: RX-8 Potenza R040's aren't the same as those fitted to 350Z's, even though they're both 225/45 18's (I forget whether they're front or back on the 350Z). Reportedly, there are differences. I don't know whether this is an urban legend, but I thought I'd chuck it in anyhow.

Revolver

Wonder what the 350Z guys use when they run out of rubber?

Or are we assuming they merely grunt and point at their tyre dealer saying 'Dat one look pretty'. :D

Z88M

I got some new Bridgestone RE040s some time back and they did look a little different to the OEM originals. Per my review of the 245/40zr18 Goodyear GS D3s I am giving them back and going for 225/45zr18 Michelin Pilot Sports so I should have my steering feel and turn in back again and the squirm gone. Expensive exercise all this but the car handles and steers too good to numb it down!

NickG

Keep us posted on this Z88M. As you say, it's a costly decision and I'll be intrigued to hear how you go.

Revolver

Ditto.

Also interested to hear what you paid for the Michelins.

labrat

Yes, what has this exercise cost you?