Lock & Load

Maybe i am being a bit to harsh if it truly is 187 KW AT the rear and the stock ones are say average 115 kw at the rears its a GREAT gain .

I AM SURE THE COST WILL BE CLOSE TO TEN THOUSAND BIG ONES and your fuel cost most likely will increase .

B..free
michael

Revolver

I find the brave efforts to build a FI 8 in Australia very interesting. However, I have some concerns over doing it to my car and I wonder if I'm a lone ***** :o or others have the same worries.

If we assume 120kw at the wheels for the stock car, 187kw is a healthy 50% + increase over the standard car. Since our starting point is not exactly a slug, that seems to me to be a significant and worthwhile gain, subject to overall cost, compliance and driveability.

By overall cost, I include the suspension, brake, wheel, tyre and other mods that may be necessary to provide a complete balanced package (does anyone have a ballpark for that yet?). If it's less than 15-20K all up I'd be amazed. Added to the purchase price, that starts to take you into the territory of a lot of other desirable high powered cars.

By compliance, I mean will it be legal and insurable? Appreciate that the warranty for the motor at least will be chucked out the window (which in itself is a decent deterrent) but how many people can afford to spend $Ks modding a $60K car and then find out it is either unregistrable or virtually uninsurable due to massive premium cost (go back to overall cost).

By driveability, I mean whether the thing can be driven in the occasional traffic jam without shitting itself and/or long term reliability. One of the virtues of the stock car is that it is remarkably easy to live with in a broad range of driving conditions and like most jap cars these days is built to last (with the exception of the odd cheap plastic bit). I suspect any decent engineer can build a car that goes fast - it is making it useful long term that takes the time and money.

So while I would love the car to have more power, I reckon until these questions are answered, cautious types like me will continue to cheer from the sidelines in admiration of the monsters created by Hymee, Joe and co while saving our dough and hoping the MPS or SP version is produced.

Don't get me wrong - I'm no killjoy and I understand and respect that some get into modding cars for the challenge and fun of it. But this is no $5K Torana or RX3 we're talking about here. I suspect that for all but the very wealthy amongst us it represents a considerable investment (I've got a Sydney mortgage remember! ) and I'd find it hard to justify such extensive mods unless I knew it would give me more than just a quick drag strip time.

What do you guys reckon?

timbo

Well, personally I agree. One of the things that makes the 8 so attractive is its power:weight and overall balance. You start mucking about with one parameter, it is very easy to destroy that overall balance and poise. Plus you need to add all sorts of additional components for cooling, handling and braking.

Equally, I also understand the desire to develop the thing, and I doffs me lid to those who take it one. Ultimately, they conquer previous concepts of 'limits' and improve the breed. More power to 'em

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

Revolver,

I wish when you said "Can I just play Devil's Advocate for a minute", you meant it in a Homer Simpson sort of way. LOL! :D

You raise lots of valid points, and they obviously have been through my mind many times.

I also appreciate you and Timbo's balanced views on seeing the other side. Thanks!

Cheers,
Hymee.

StratoMike

Spot on!
My car is used primarily for work appointments and I just flat out cant void the warranty as I plan on trading it in once it gets a year or two old (and I also have a Sydney mortgage).
I'm sure Mazda is planning on releasing an MPS or SP version of the RX8 as with some extra power on board it would be a car for the ages. (not that it isnt now, but you get my drift )

Lock & Load

Revolver

I had the same thoughts but i didnt want to be seen as putting a damper on Hymees Supercharger , so i am glad you guys have posted this information i agree this car has been engineered for Natural aspiration apart from adding / modifyng exhaust , shortshifters , flywheels ECU UPGRADES , improving handling and brakes ,it really is best to not Force feed it by way of Turbo or Supercharger .

I am not saying that they wont work and give you extra power ...but at what cost to the car let alone your hip pocket :D


B...free
michael

Revolver

Thanks Hymee for taking my comments in the spirit intended.

Just to be crystal clear - I wish you all the success in the world with your supercharger (ditto guys like Joe, etc). I think it's great that you're developing the car and I respect anyone who is prepared to put their time and money where their mouth is.

So more power to you but I thought it was worthwhile to raise some of those issues for debate. Hope you get the thing sorted before Wakefield. :D :D

Wildcard

I think that we are working with such a strong foundation with the RX-8 that further modifications to suspension, brakes, wheels, tires will not be necessary. I certainly don't plan on upgrading anything else when I go FI, and I don't think it will be necessary. We are very lucky in that sense to have such an amazing car to start with.

As for voiding my warranty, the car has held together flawlessly for 2 years now, so I think the chances of actually using my warranty in anger are quite slim. Nothing ventured, nothing gained....

Let's hope Hymee has a supercharged rx-8 running at the Nationals. Pleeeease Hymee!!!

Wildcard

Oh yes, the only downside to FI is that I will have to get off my 91RON soapbox and go back to Premium again. Damn!

xxup

I hope that the fuel economy on the thing is good or we will be stopping at every town on the way to Wakefield.. The Standard 8 probably only gets 550k out of a tank at 100kph as it is..

Mind you my bladder on the last cruise was not much better.. :D

rotarenvy

the std suspension can take more power, I have no doubts about that.

I'm not game to void my warranty just yet tho; with 1.5 years left I think the drive train warranty may have use :C

I hope Mazda will bring along a the high power version in 2 to 3 years. If not then I will look at other options like something else or forced induction to make the car fun again.

I wouldn't mind a centrifugal SC, nice power up high on the track and I can putt round like normal on the road

takahashi

Wildcard & rotorenvy,

NO!!!!!

No I don't think 8 is have the handling anywhere near the base the old DC2 Integra Type R. It is bone braking but handling much better than the 8

The suspension is too soft for any decent track work. For road it is just ok. The chassis is strong though and it will take more power if that is what you mean. The car is very rigid.

For F.I. A few things are very common: Power is around 180-220kW. Tuning makes perfect, even for get the right balance powering out the corner timbo. An untuned FI = rubbish. I am willing to spend $6000 on a $4000 turbo to make it right.
If I ever go FI, I will have radiator, oil cooler change; decent suspension and brake to go with that. Not to mention clutch and flywheel.

Revolver... Shannon insured the 350Z twin turbo - they will insure RX-8 Tubro too. Guess the premium. $1400 !

Just My 0.02$.

timbo

Interesting comment from you, taka, 'cos when I looked at that video of you and the Integra at Sandown, you were all over the Integra under brakes and in the corners

I wonder how much power the transmission can take. I know of a 20B powered race car down here, where they rejected the 8's 6 sp transmission over an older series 6 RX-7 box. Given the recall and what's happening in the US, cooling is also going to be an issue for consideration with FI.

Having been down this route in an earlier life, it is amazing where added power puts additional stress on components and systems. Fuel pumps and injectors....it's along list, but fun if you want to take it on

takahashi

Yes.... ehhhh.... that is a DC5. I am talking the DC2 (the older version). Plus I am a much better driver

Oh yes Timbo Thanks for that. Mia is just behind me saying, "so it (the mods) will never end *sigh". Thanks for the trouble :o

rotarenvy

Have you read the latest SPEED mag? They rate the DC5 type S higher than the type R?

The reason I say the 8 can take more power with out suspension mods is that with the std power you can do no wrong. I can lift off in the middle of the corner; nothing happens; I can slam the accelerator to the floor mid corner; nothing happens! I'm not necessarily maintaining perfect lines or turning fast laps under these situations but the car is benign and requires no real driving finesse to keep it under control.

If the car had more power I might have to feed the throttle in carefully instead of just stomping on the GO pedal. You are always aiming for the Porsche in front of you and criticising how slow they are in the corners. I doubt it is the Porsche’s cornering ability that is at fault, it’s probably the fact a high-powered car is more of a handful in the corners. If your not careful in the Porsche, I bet it bites dam quick, in the 8 you can just be on full throttle after the apex. Quoting ‘TopGear’ it’s a punching bag in std form. Not necessarily the fastest car, but so easy to drive it can take more power without making it hard to drive.

ILIV48

Remember the DC5 Type R we had here was only really a Type S with a couple extra's, nothing like a true DC5 JDM Type R. Having driven both JDM DC2 & DC5 Type R's I can say I myself found the DC2 a far better car for handling.

Out at Sandown there are plenty of turns that if you lift off suddenly or break mid corner the 8 kicks hard. In my first time out there the DSC saved my bacon a couple of occassions. If it was off I would have seen the sand pits :o

On the track I find it is the DSC that is de-fanging the 8's bite. Exit a corner by jumping on the throttle and I get a little wheel spin but she stays pretty straight, the same corner without DSC and the 1 time I tried it my back came out enough for me to decide DSC back on to the half off point

I really want to go FI when I can but I will also do some more mods to the cooling system and look at better shocks or even coilovers first, and a lot more track practice too. Hopefully by then Hymee will be finished and he can become my next best friend :D

Revolver

A bit like painting or carpeting a house huh Timbo?? :D

You just can't do one room unless you want to spend all your time there! :p :D

Wildcard

I'm talking about still using the car as a daily driver with FI. I agree, if you are serious about track work (I'm not) a few extra upgrades would probably be prudent. I think the current setup will be adequate for around town though.

timbo

Sounds like incredibly violent agreement all round

rotarenvy

I supose it depends on the track and where you are playing silly-buggers (I didn't try these tricks entering into turn 1).

takahashi

Haha

Stuart you need not to afraid of the powering out of corners. You can control 120kW surely.

Yes on the road the car is good enough. Even it is enough power on the road.

EZZY

my mate was telling me today.....
apparently joe installed a k&n air filter setup on a blk rx-8 here in sydney and it is very similar to one of those electric supercharger thingy , all fitted up and it had 17kw gain on the dyno.....
parts: about $450-ish
not sure about the labour, but its more like a contant CAI with electric fan thingy thought it's too good to be true, will get my mate to find more info

RXP33D

120Kw it may be, but it ain't no slouch. I think for some people who urge the
power of FI and demand to have suspension and brake tweaks, they're missing
the point. They're owners of 350Z's and Sti's, bone stock track tools.
The rx8 is a great compromise between an everyday car and a weekend 'fang'mobile.

As with rotarenvy, I agree 100%. You can give it a boot full at any time, even myself as an amateur P plater, it is controllable beyond words. Given sitting in
a Boxster, do the same, the story is different. As taka noted, the car makes you look like a PRO. It's simply rewarding, anytime, anywhere.

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

I can almost feel myself counting the days

Thanks for the sentiments guys.

The only reason (IMHO) that they are "so well behaved" when you stomp on the gas (stock), is they barely make enough torque to break traction.

There are couple of times when I have found the front end to not handle the traction at the back. I.e. she scrubbed the fronts in an power understeer.

There have been times when you can have some fun power oversteer.

Then there is the times in turn 1 at QR that the DSC helps a bit, but you still end up going sideways

Cheers,
Hymee.