labrat

Just reading up on the Mazda Senku concept car to be shown at the Tokyo motor show. Given that Mazda concepts have a history of coming to the market, I'm prepared to eat my words about the RX-8 being the last rotary! Seems however, it will be a rotary hybrid, which when you think about it is the smartest way to get around the low down torque problem. With the lecky motors, you get bags of grunt off the line, and the hybrid concept takes the sting out of gas consumption.

Oh, and a two-door 4 seater wuth sliding doors - way to go!

auzoom

were you saying the Senku was going to be Hybrid? I thought it was the new Premacy that was? and the Senku was petrol RE?

Andrew

xxup

Labrat is correct it is a hybrid see http://www.channel4.com/4car/news/ne...?news_id=13123

http://tmsyn.wc.ask.com/r?t=an&s=hb&...om/archive.php

auzoom

I didnt read it that way from this http://www.mazda.com.au/currentNews.asp

So what in fact is the difference betwen the 2 engines? They are both Hybrid? both petrol/hydrogen hybrid?

Confused is me!

Andrew

xxup

Senku is petrol (direct injection rotary) and electric...

Quote from RotaryNews.com: "The Mazda SENKU is powered by a Direct Injection RENESIS 1300cc Rotary Engine, mated to a rear wheel drive hybrid system. The concept boasts a 3100mm (122") wheel base, 22 inch rims, and a 'surprising sliding door.' SENKU translates to "forerunner," "pioneer," or, oddly enough by one translation: "pilot car." See http://rotarynews.com/node/view/695

The RX-8 is petrol and hydrogen, as is the Premacy. RX-8 Hydrogen available in Japan in 2006..

The MPV is petro/hydrogen and electric..

auzoom

OK so the Senku is a Petrol/Electric Hybrid and the premacy is Petrol/Hydrogen Hybrid?

Andrew

Zephyr

there is no point for hydrogen engines or hybrids right now as there isn't any hydrogen infrastructure anyways(well except japan), well you see australia is just too slow on these things...and hydrogen are just as expensive as petrol or maybe even cost more, too expensive to make... and plus the engine componets and materials will need to change, so the car in the end will cost alot more.

secondly, those hybrids has no extra performance at all, they are only slower, so much more weight need to be put for another fuel storage and a eletric motor to boost torque.

i can only see hydrogen cars in 10 years time maybe when petrol supply gets really low...
the only benefit from this concept is from a engineering point of view, more development on rotories

Zephyr

i think the senku and premacy have same engines. which has one single rotory engine that runs both hydrogen and petrol(duel fuel, not actually a hybrid engine), which also uses direct injection and the system is also hooked with a small electronic assisted turbo that will be used to boost torque. and this technology is just based on the current hydrogen rx8 RE(with 210 ps), which will soon to be released in japan.

the following site explains this
http://www.greencar.com/index.cfm?content=features6

xxup

Check out the boot space at



No room for spare wheel, groceries or anything else..

Get this quote from the same article:

"The Renesis hydrogen engine features 210 horsepower when running on gasoline and 110 horsepower on less energy-dense gaseous hydrogen." (see http://www.greencar.com/index.cfm?content=features6)

Arrrrrgggggghh can't even outrun a Datsun Bluebird with that power... Seems to confirm something that Labrat said about Hydrogen cars in another posting..

labrat

Gee, I didn't mean to cause such mayhem and confusion. I understand "hybrid" to mean a dual fossil fuel (petrol or diesel) and electric power train. I would regard petrol/hydrogen cars as variants of "dual fuel", like petrol/LPG.

Maybe I'm reading too much into this, but I thought I discerned a way in which Mazda could be thinking. It could possibly be along these lines:

"We made a conscious decision not to supercharge or turbocharge the Renesis engine in the original format of the RX-8. For whatever manufacturing or marketing benefits to us, it has nonetheless left us with a hole in the low-down torque. Also, while we have achieved fuel consumption improvements over the RX-7, it's still nothing to write home about. On another tangent, we note the way the Toyota Prius and the Honda Accord hybrids have caught the public imagination. We also note that BMW have felt obliged to acknowledge this possible groundswell of consumer sentiment by showing a hybrid at the Frankfurt Motor Show. The BMW concept proposes using light high performance capacitors instead of heavy batteries.

So here's a possible double-whammy win situation for us: We re-position the notion of the hybrid car from the earnest where-your-green-credentials-on your-sleeve slow-poke Prius to a performance car with a green tinge. Since the characteristic of electric motors is instant torque, we solve that particular problem of rotary motors. OK, since we're making a performance car, we're not going to achieve super low fuel consumption, but at least it will be a whole lot better than the current RX-8."

I think its a useful starting point to assume that the people at Mazda aren't idiots, so its worthwhile asking "why are they doing this?"