Stage I installed...........disappeared???????
01-22-2004, 06:48 PM
#28
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I understand that everyone wants to both help the RX8 community and provide accurate results while protecting Canzoomer.
My confusion is this, truth is gained and attained by a collection of results being thrown out into the public so that others can make an educated decision from others findings. Wheather they be correct or not I think the function of the forum as free communication tool is diminished.
Its almost like when we had the viatnam war we knew there was a war, there was results but we were not allowed to see those results because they had to be accepted by the powers that be. It had to be accepted then shipped to the media then to the public in its new supposedly unadulterated form. This example is excessive i know but you get the point.
I dont mean to be abrasive or harmful, nor do i want to discredit Canzoomer in any way. I do mean to be honest and I honestly feel screwed when info no matter how small or insignificant or unapproved is withheld.
If i were some of the members here i would post the results on another board beause of my feelings. Im sorry all, when i feel something is wrong i do get passionate about it.
Please if im off target or wrong in any way please let me know. Im will not hesitate to apologize.
My confusion is this, truth is gained and attained by a collection of results being thrown out into the public so that others can make an educated decision from others findings. Wheather they be correct or not I think the function of the forum as free communication tool is diminished.
Its almost like when we had the viatnam war we knew there was a war, there was results but we were not allowed to see those results because they had to be accepted by the powers that be. It had to be accepted then shipped to the media then to the public in its new supposedly unadulterated form. This example is excessive i know but you get the point.
I dont mean to be abrasive or harmful, nor do i want to discredit Canzoomer in any way. I do mean to be honest and I honestly feel screwed when info no matter how small or insignificant or unapproved is withheld.
If i were some of the members here i would post the results on another board beause of my feelings. Im sorry all, when i feel something is wrong i do get passionate about it.
Please if im off target or wrong in any way please let me know. Im will not hesitate to apologize.
01-22-2004, 08:07 PM
#29
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I noticed that some of our friends from the states are wondering as to the effect of cz stage 1 in Australia. It is quite possible, and i never saw the original thread, that a point Hymee made in another thread is that the control unit had never been tested in our cars. And that our ECU could be much different than the US version, Hymee has always said this could affect the way this mod may operate in Australia. Hey who knows the results may have been good or bad. I am glad though that it did wait a little bofore jumping in and buying. The results in the US have been good from all accounts. Looks like we are best sticking with Ric Shaws mod or another from someone else locally, our friends from US stay with their local product.
01-22-2004, 08:13 PM
#30
Zerohour,
That is one reason I posted my results. If no one had paniced, I think it would all be OK. Instead it has backfired.
L&L has asked me not to release the results until CZ has reviewed them, so I am now honoring his request.
Reeko,
I think you are quite astute. I would like to go back a short while in history to this post:
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...442#post204442
I hope anyone reading this re-reads that post, and note that it was made in December 2003. Also note I was not bagging CZ there either, just urging caution.
This sub-forum is not free advertising for anyone. CZ pays good money to advertise, and he has his own sub forum for that. As a community we also owe it to each other to report reproducable, quality results, and report our findings to each other, both bad and good.
Cheers,
Hymee.
That is one reason I posted my results. If no one had paniced, I think it would all be OK. Instead it has backfired.
L&L has asked me not to release the results until CZ has reviewed them, so I am now honoring his request.
Reeko,
I think you are quite astute. I would like to go back a short while in history to this post:
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...442#post204442
I hope anyone reading this re-reads that post, and note that it was made in December 2003. Also note I was not bagging CZ there either, just urging caution.
This sub-forum is not free advertising for anyone. CZ pays good money to advertise, and he has his own sub forum for that. As a community we also owe it to each other to report reproducable, quality results, and report our findings to each other, both bad and good.
Cheers,
Hymee.
01-22-2004, 08:56 PM
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I appreciate your response, and i also understand and respect your reasons. I do feel however that progress can be had by posting results. I do agree that some people will have excessive reactions. In the end however when all is said and done using the forum to its fullest and discussing the issue i feel is always the best and honest choice.
My view is this, should only the educated and experienced gain the privilage of information? Its kinda like voting I think even the uneducated can vote, trolls can post, and I think information should be shared. This is why Mazda still has a shadow hanging over them because they are not straight forward about the facts. People are forced to investigate on their own end up feeling that something was kept from them.
Best of luck to Canzoomer he has done the RX8 a great service and i know I for one truely appreciate it and will be ordering stage II once the bugs are worked out no matter what issues may be pending.
My view is this, should only the educated and experienced gain the privilage of information? Its kinda like voting I think even the uneducated can vote, trolls can post, and I think information should be shared. This is why Mazda still has a shadow hanging over them because they are not straight forward about the facts. People are forced to investigate on their own end up feeling that something was kept from them.
Best of luck to Canzoomer he has done the RX8 a great service and i know I for one truely appreciate it and will be ordering stage II once the bugs are worked out no matter what issues may be pending.
01-22-2004, 08:56 PM
#34
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I had read your post with the results and I was not going to jump to any conclusions at this point. Looks like you did a good job and I like way you did them without too many varibles, as in starts and shifts.
We are still waiting for any tests or dynos here in the US. Only a few have been installed as of today, 3 I think. And butt dynos are all we have to go on so far, but it sounds promising.
I also agree with waiting until Maurice can look over your results and offer some input before any concrete opinions are made.
Actually I really think the problem is that since you guys are upside down, Maurice forgot to allow for that
Good luck
We are still waiting for any tests or dynos here in the US. Only a few have been installed as of today, 3 I think. And butt dynos are all we have to go on so far, but it sounds promising.
I also agree with waiting until Maurice can look over your results and offer some input before any concrete opinions are made.
Actually I really think the problem is that since you guys are upside down, Maurice forgot to allow for that
Good luck
01-22-2004, 08:59 PM
#35
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Originally posted by Reeko
Having read the original post I have to ask a question...
Could it not be that the Australia Rx8 does not have the crippled fuel map that we got here in the US?
In that case, CZ stage 1 only brings US cars up to the same or similar levels as the Aussie version. Since Ric's controller also adjusts timing, there is extra gains to be had (similar to what CZ expects to get with stage 2).
Of course I could be totally wrong.
Having read the original post I have to ask a question...
Could it not be that the Australia Rx8 does not have the crippled fuel map that we got here in the US?
In that case, CZ stage 1 only brings US cars up to the same or similar levels as the Aussie version. Since Ric's controller also adjusts timing, there is extra gains to be had (similar to what CZ expects to get with stage 2).
Of course I could be totally wrong.
Hymee had the opportunity to drive an American RX8 that belong to a forum member whilst he was in the United states .
He reported that on his butt dyno the cars were very similar he could not differentiate betwen the Australian / American cars.
MICHAEL
01-22-2004, 09:35 PM
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Being the inquisitive Detective that i am i have just realised that in Canzoomers instructions of the installation of the ECU the serial number for the American ECU is different to the Australian rx8s.
ECU is N 3 H 6. (page6 on the instructions) American RX8.
On the Australian car the serial number on the ECU is different.
ECU IS N 3 J 6 HMMMMMMMMMMM.very interesting.
Could this be the missing link between the two cars or is it just a different production timing thing???????????
Any thoughts.
Michael
ECU is N 3 H 6. (page6 on the instructions) American RX8.
On the Australian car the serial number on the ECU is different.
ECU IS N 3 J 6 HMMMMMMMMMMM.very interesting.
Could this be the missing link between the two cars or is it just a different production timing thing???????????
Any thoughts.
Michael
01-22-2004, 09:57 PM
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emack
Can zoomers did not send instructions with stage 1 i downloaded them from the updated instruction site .From the 18th of january Maurice added extra instructions , hence you may have missed pages 5 & 6 .
Michael
Can zoomers did not send instructions with stage 1 i downloaded them from the updated instruction site .From the 18th of january Maurice added extra instructions , hence you may have missed pages 5 & 6 .
Michael
01-23-2004, 06:34 AM
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To resume this. Hundreds of people read the thread:
Even if it is only Australia RX-8's there were like this:
0-100km/hr:
Emack stock vs Emack with with CZ Ecu : No difference
Ric Shaw ECU got better times.
Results are Results. Even if it can be fixed or improved later.
Even if it is only Australia RX-8's there were like this:
0-100km/hr:
Emack stock vs Emack with with CZ Ecu : No difference
Ric Shaw ECU got better times.
Results are Results. Even if it can be fixed or improved later.
01-23-2004, 06:39 AM
#47
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I seem to remember a disclaimer somewhere about this only being tested on US/Canada spec cars... we knew our cars were different... I even remember Hymee posting about ours running leaner or something?! Is anyone really surprised? Caveat Emptor...
01-23-2004, 07:32 AM
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I have stood on the outside of all of these go fast threads because I am one of those weird people who thinks that the car is sufficiently quick as it is. However, for what its worth some of my thoughts on the matter. I freely admit I have minimal knowledge of automotive engineering. However, I am a professional scientist who uses a pretty rigorous approach to logic in my day to day work. Feel free to shoot me down.
One line of thought would be that all of the people offering these kits are in effect putting themselves up against the combined automotive engineering experience of a company with more than 40 years experience in rotary motors, and have been developing the Renesis motor for over 8 years. If you read the glossy book that we all got, you get the impression that these guys know a bit. We have heard about Helmholtz tuning in design of intake manifolds, we have heard about near optimal stoichiometry in fuel mixtures, all of these sorts of things. I know we read about gifted amateurs coming out of the woodwork to baffle the boffins, but such instances are rare.
The RX-8 isn't like an old Holden or Falcon, an automotive lump of clay waiting for gifted mechanics to tarnsform it into a fire-breathing beast. It was designed from the bottom up to be the flgship car of the new Mazda fleet. My impression is that consistent with such limitations imposed by emission control and product longevity, they have come pretty close to squeezing out near to what is practical from the design. What's left comes down to the law of diminishing returns, with possibly somewhat an inverse square relationship existing between dollars spent and kW gained.
In measuring these gains, there appears to be a great deal of subjectivity; people speak about butt dynometers and using instrumentation which also appears to be subject to controversy. All of this makes me cringe. I'm an analytical chemist, and I deal only in things which can be accurately measured and are repeatable and reproducible. There doesn't seem to be much of this going on here. An extra few kW claimed is almost within normal statistical variations.
At the end of the day, people have the right to spend their money on what makes them happy. I say, if you want to bolt stuff on, ream it, steam it, dry clean it, and if it makes you feel good, go for it.
Meanwhile, I just cruise around in my pure unadulterated, virgin, pristine and untouched little 8...
One line of thought would be that all of the people offering these kits are in effect putting themselves up against the combined automotive engineering experience of a company with more than 40 years experience in rotary motors, and have been developing the Renesis motor for over 8 years. If you read the glossy book that we all got, you get the impression that these guys know a bit. We have heard about Helmholtz tuning in design of intake manifolds, we have heard about near optimal stoichiometry in fuel mixtures, all of these sorts of things. I know we read about gifted amateurs coming out of the woodwork to baffle the boffins, but such instances are rare.
The RX-8 isn't like an old Holden or Falcon, an automotive lump of clay waiting for gifted mechanics to tarnsform it into a fire-breathing beast. It was designed from the bottom up to be the flgship car of the new Mazda fleet. My impression is that consistent with such limitations imposed by emission control and product longevity, they have come pretty close to squeezing out near to what is practical from the design. What's left comes down to the law of diminishing returns, with possibly somewhat an inverse square relationship existing between dollars spent and kW gained.
In measuring these gains, there appears to be a great deal of subjectivity; people speak about butt dynometers and using instrumentation which also appears to be subject to controversy. All of this makes me cringe. I'm an analytical chemist, and I deal only in things which can be accurately measured and are repeatable and reproducible. There doesn't seem to be much of this going on here. An extra few kW claimed is almost within normal statistical variations.
At the end of the day, people have the right to spend their money on what makes them happy. I say, if you want to bolt stuff on, ream it, steam it, dry clean it, and if it makes you feel good, go for it.
Meanwhile, I just cruise around in my pure unadulterated, virgin, pristine and untouched little 8...
01-23-2004, 07:45 AM
#50
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Manufacturers will always crank back the level of tuning for a car like this due to the green laws, longevity, noise, harshness, etc. There's usually scope for tuners to perform a few tweaks to get another 5~10% out of an engine (even this rotary) without too much danger.
CZ didn't have an Oz car to play with, that's it!
I'm certain the Hymee's and Ric's will find a few more ponies given a little time.
As for repeatable tests, the drag strip with/without a piggyback active will tell us, with consistent 0.5 second (or better) 1/4 times as the yardstick. (Yes, same car, same day, same temp, same driver, same revs, same changes...)
CZ didn't have an Oz car to play with, that's it!
I'm certain the Hymee's and Ric's will find a few more ponies given a little time.
As for repeatable tests, the drag strip with/without a piggyback active will tell us, with consistent 0.5 second (or better) 1/4 times as the yardstick. (Yes, same car, same day, same temp, same driver, same revs, same changes...)