Stage I installed...........disappeared???????
01-23-2004, 07:51 AM
#51
trust me..this wont hurt
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Originally posted by Kev
Manufacturers will always crank back the level of tuning for a car like this due to the green laws, longevity, noise, harshness, etc. There's usually scope for tuners to perform a few tweaks to get another 5~10% out of an engine (even this rotary) without too much danger.
Manufacturers will always crank back the level of tuning for a car like this due to the green laws, longevity, noise, harshness, etc. There's usually scope for tuners to perform a few tweaks to get another 5~10% out of an engine (even this rotary) without too much danger.
01-23-2004, 09:12 AM
#52
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Labrat... the other thing to keep in mind is that Canzoomer wasn't sure this would work in Oz because the tuning could've been different and he didn't have an Australian car to test.
However, it is a known, documented fact that in the North American market, Mazda richened up the mixture of the rotary to meet the insane new US requirement that OEM catalytic converters last 120,000 miles. The rotary's high exhaust temps meant that at higher revs, a leaner mixture means more heat... and reduced cat life.
Mazda did this at the port, *before* the first cars were delivered. People were wondering why there was a delay in getting the first cars, and that was it. The infamous "downgrading" of HP followed.
So what Canzoomer did was try to bring the car back to it's "original" spec, before Mazda made its mods. In other words, as the car was intended originally.
He believed the Japan-spec cars were already tuned this way. But what he was unsure of was whether the Australian cars were "dumbed down" like the NA cars or not.
So actually, for the NA market, there is a fairly significant HP gain above 5K available with his mod.
But Ric Shaw sounds like he's able to extract some extra power from the Australian-spec cars.
So while I normally agree with your philosophy about leaving a car stock, in the NA case, I think it's a fairly straightforward mod that will bring back the "lost" HP.
However, it is a known, documented fact that in the North American market, Mazda richened up the mixture of the rotary to meet the insane new US requirement that OEM catalytic converters last 120,000 miles. The rotary's high exhaust temps meant that at higher revs, a leaner mixture means more heat... and reduced cat life.
Mazda did this at the port, *before* the first cars were delivered. People were wondering why there was a delay in getting the first cars, and that was it. The infamous "downgrading" of HP followed.
So what Canzoomer did was try to bring the car back to it's "original" spec, before Mazda made its mods. In other words, as the car was intended originally.
He believed the Japan-spec cars were already tuned this way. But what he was unsure of was whether the Australian cars were "dumbed down" like the NA cars or not.
So actually, for the NA market, there is a fairly significant HP gain above 5K available with his mod.
But Ric Shaw sounds like he's able to extract some extra power from the Australian-spec cars.
So while I normally agree with your philosophy about leaving a car stock, in the NA case, I think it's a fairly straightforward mod that will bring back the "lost" HP.
01-24-2004, 01:02 AM
#53
Originally posted by labrat
[B]However, I am a professional scientist who uses a pretty rigorous approach to logic in my day to day work.
[B]However, I am a professional scientist who uses a pretty rigorous approach to logic in my day to day work.
One line of thought would be that all of the people offering these kits are in effect putting themselves up against the combined automotive engineering experience of a company with more than 40 years experience in rotary motors, and have been developing the Renesis motor for over 8 years. If you read the glossy book that we all got, you get the impression that these guys know a bit.
they have come pretty close to squeezing out near to what is practical from the design. What's left comes down to the law of diminishing returns, with possibly somewhat an inverse square relationship existing between dollars spent and kW gained.
In measuring these gains, there appears to be a great deal of subjectivity; people speak about butt dynometers and using instrumentation which also appears to be subject to controversy. All of this makes me cringe. I'm an analytical chemist, and I deal only in things which can be accurately measured and are repeatable and reproducible. There doesn't seem to be much of this going on here. An extra few kW claimed is almost within normal statistical variations.
At the end of the day, people have the right to spend their money on what makes them happy. I say, if you want to bolt stuff on, ream it, steam it, dry clean it, and if it makes you feel good, go for it.
Meanwhile, I just cruise around in my pure unadulterated, virgin, pristine and untouched little 8...
Cheers,
Hymee.
01-24-2004, 01:59 AM
#54
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Boys hold on to your mouses/ and whatever else you hold ontu when you suffer from Anxiety .
Maurice has recieved our report from Downunder , and will evaluate it and get back to meas soon as possible.
Then the embargo that HYMEE has been reffering to MAY be lifted .
Its a PITY that no one has really THANKED the forum MEMBERS who have gone to a lot of Financiall as well as Mentall and Emotional Expense and who may have risked their precious cars in order to get the required stage 1 results .
Yes we have choosen to be Guinea pigs however a bit of appreciation instead of the negative feedback would go a long way .
SO BE PATIENT AND APPRECIATIVE OF WHAT OTHERS ARE TRYNG TO DO FOR EVERYONES ELSES BENEFIT AS WELL AS OUR OWN .
Glad i got that of my chest .
Michael
Maurice has recieved our report from Downunder , and will evaluate it and get back to meas soon as possible.
Then the embargo that HYMEE has been reffering to MAY be lifted .
Its a PITY that no one has really THANKED the forum MEMBERS who have gone to a lot of Financiall as well as Mentall and Emotional Expense and who may have risked their precious cars in order to get the required stage 1 results .
Yes we have choosen to be Guinea pigs however a bit of appreciation instead of the negative feedback would go a long way .
SO BE PATIENT AND APPRECIATIVE OF WHAT OTHERS ARE TRYNG TO DO FOR EVERYONES ELSES BENEFIT AS WELL AS OUR OWN .
Glad i got that of my chest .
Michael
01-24-2004, 04:26 AM
#56
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L&L ... Mate ... !!!
Nobody has it in for the people that put up the bucks, but you're not guinea pigs, you are early adopters. Just like all of the early RX8 buyers.
So you spent some money on an engine mod - you'd be happy if you were blowing away porches - the likely fact that you're not is a shame. I wish you were.
My opinion ... If CZ want's to sell his work to Oz owners, he should have gone with a pilot that was agreed and cost reduced.
I like the idea of go fast bits, but I also like the idea of being able to walk up to a person and say "it's not right" to their face.
L&L, you're certainly brave for risking the ugrade, but please don't expect anything but anxious and unsettled vibes. Otherwise you should have kept you install secretive in the first place.
Just my 2c,
Kev.
Nobody has it in for the people that put up the bucks, but you're not guinea pigs, you are early adopters. Just like all of the early RX8 buyers.
So you spent some money on an engine mod - you'd be happy if you were blowing away porches - the likely fact that you're not is a shame. I wish you were.
My opinion ... If CZ want's to sell his work to Oz owners, he should have gone with a pilot that was agreed and cost reduced.
I like the idea of go fast bits, but I also like the idea of being able to walk up to a person and say "it's not right" to their face.
L&L, you're certainly brave for risking the ugrade, but please don't expect anything but anxious and unsettled vibes. Otherwise you should have kept you install secretive in the first place.
Just my 2c,
Kev.
01-24-2004, 06:31 AM
#58
trust me..this wont hurt
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Originally posted by Lock & Load
Its a PITY that no one has really THANKED the forum MEMBERS who have gone to a lot of Financiall as well as Mentall and Emotional Expense and who may have risked their precious cars in order to get the required stage 1 results .
Yes we have choosen to be Guinea pigs however a bit of appreciation instead of the negative feedback would go a long way .
SO BE PATIENT AND APPRECIATIVE OF WHAT OTHERS ARE TRYNG TO DO FOR EVERYONES ELSES BENEFIT AS WELL AS OUR OWN .
Glad i got that of my chest .
Michael
Its a PITY that no one has really THANKED the forum MEMBERS who have gone to a lot of Financiall as well as Mentall and Emotional Expense and who may have risked their precious cars in order to get the required stage 1 results .
Yes we have choosen to be Guinea pigs however a bit of appreciation instead of the negative feedback would go a long way .
SO BE PATIENT AND APPRECIATIVE OF WHAT OTHERS ARE TRYNG TO DO FOR EVERYONES ELSES BENEFIT AS WELL AS OUR OWN .
Glad i got that of my chest .
Michael
All we know is that there were some Aussie performance reports, and not even 24 hours later the posts were deleted. Of course questions will be asked.
Heck, when i was developing my race car, I dumped many $$$$ into the endless money pit, over $4K developing the brakes, over $20K on the engine.......and for what? A lot of self satisfaction, and to have others ask how and what so they can do the same at a much reduced cost ( I told them to bugger off though)
To you and emack, all I say is well done, because I've been there too.
01-24-2004, 05:52 PM
#60
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You know what guys, its my fault no one elses! I was too quick with my keyboard.
The fact of the matter is that nobody I know of has put as much time, money and effort into a product for the 8 than Canzoomer. I purchased a product from canzoomer knowing that it was extensively tested in the US/Canada but slightly unconvinced that the existing map would work as well in Oz.
Now we've run tests, my first communication should have been with the guy that developed and sold me the product and in an attempt to recoup that position, I have created an unwanted shitstorm for us all which was not my intention.
You will go a long way before you find a more stand up guy than Maurice (Canzoomer) and he has already been in contact with us about our feedback on his products performance with Oz spec cars.
While we wait for the answers to come, why don't we focus more on why my 8 (before the Stage 1 was installed) produced 5kw at the rear wheel more than Ric Shaw's and why Hymee's outguns Lock's (both in standard form) by approx 1 sec in their 40-100 comparisons.
Wouldn't you say this piece in the puzzle is as equally important as any issues surrounding Canzoomer's stage 1, as the mod extends base line performance.
Once again, I'm sorry for my jumping the gun and after we've talked to Canzoomer some more, we'll be right back to y'all.
Paul.
The fact of the matter is that nobody I know of has put as much time, money and effort into a product for the 8 than Canzoomer. I purchased a product from canzoomer knowing that it was extensively tested in the US/Canada but slightly unconvinced that the existing map would work as well in Oz.
Now we've run tests, my first communication should have been with the guy that developed and sold me the product and in an attempt to recoup that position, I have created an unwanted shitstorm for us all which was not my intention.
You will go a long way before you find a more stand up guy than Maurice (Canzoomer) and he has already been in contact with us about our feedback on his products performance with Oz spec cars.
While we wait for the answers to come, why don't we focus more on why my 8 (before the Stage 1 was installed) produced 5kw at the rear wheel more than Ric Shaw's and why Hymee's outguns Lock's (both in standard form) by approx 1 sec in their 40-100 comparisons.
Wouldn't you say this piece in the puzzle is as equally important as any issues surrounding Canzoomer's stage 1, as the mod extends base line performance.
Once again, I'm sorry for my jumping the gun and after we've talked to Canzoomer some more, we'll be right back to y'all.
Paul.
Last edited by emack; 01-24-2004 at 05:54 PM.
01-24-2004, 06:59 PM
#62
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Originally posted by Lock & Load
Well said Emack...................
Soon all will be revealed be patient grasshoppers.
michael
Well said Emack...................
Soon all will be revealed be patient grasshoppers.
michael
01-25-2004, 12:32 AM
#64
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emack's putting all the interstaters up at the Regent overnight, so you'll be able to relax ... he also said something like "lobster and moet till you drop, then do it all again".
great guy that emack!
great guy that emack!
01-25-2004, 01:59 AM
#65
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so what's that gunna be for the boys from the bush...the Y, meat pies, and all the Tooheys you can drink.
Who else will be at Wakefield on April 2? If Hymee performs I shall have his exhaust fitted by then, and anticipate with excitement meeting many of you and your mods.
BTW I did an advanced driver day at Wakefield about 4 years ago with a bunch of wrx owners from the Armidale/Tamworth area. A great day out: unfortunately even then I was beyond the age of remembering all that I am taught.
Who else will be at Wakefield on April 2? If Hymee performs I shall have his exhaust fitted by then, and anticipate with excitement meeting many of you and your mods.
BTW I did an advanced driver day at Wakefield about 4 years ago with a bunch of wrx owners from the Armidale/Tamworth area. A great day out: unfortunately even then I was beyond the age of remembering all that I am taught.
01-28-2004, 01:23 AM
#67
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Maurice firstly a big thankyou for spending over 40 minutes on the phone with me this morning, answereing all my questions with precision as usual.
Both Emack, Hymee and myself will be conducting all the further releavant testing required to re-adjust the stage 1 kit to suit the Australian RX8s.
I am 110% convinced that with the re-adjustment of the stage 1 we will have even faster cars than our US counterparts. As our state of tune seems to be higher/better than the RX8s in US.
It took Hymee and myself approx. 1 hour to install the stage 1 kit, although we took pictures and joked around while we were installling it.
The installation instructions are excellent and are easy to follow. Once the unit was installed, switched to the ON position, we took off. DSC light came on however we managed to get it to switch off.
There is a smooth and evident boost in the 5000 rpm and up range, especially in the lower gears. Lots of fun and rapid acceleration.
Below 5000 rpm, we noticed an intermittent power phase lag. However at times it was hard to notice this lag, but it is evident intermittently.
As I stated earlier we are working together with Maurice to re-adjust our maps to suit the Australian RX8s specifically. My advice is since there is no other ECU unit that comes near the quality and workmanship of Maurice's stage 1, I'd be sitting tight, saving my money and looking forward to Maurice re-adjusting the stage 1 kit.
So don't worry, be happy and shortly get ready for the revised stage 1 Australian RX8 review.
Cheers
Michael
Both Emack, Hymee and myself will be conducting all the further releavant testing required to re-adjust the stage 1 kit to suit the Australian RX8s.
I am 110% convinced that with the re-adjustment of the stage 1 we will have even faster cars than our US counterparts. As our state of tune seems to be higher/better than the RX8s in US.
It took Hymee and myself approx. 1 hour to install the stage 1 kit, although we took pictures and joked around while we were installling it.
The installation instructions are excellent and are easy to follow. Once the unit was installed, switched to the ON position, we took off. DSC light came on however we managed to get it to switch off.
There is a smooth and evident boost in the 5000 rpm and up range, especially in the lower gears. Lots of fun and rapid acceleration.
Below 5000 rpm, we noticed an intermittent power phase lag. However at times it was hard to notice this lag, but it is evident intermittently.
As I stated earlier we are working together with Maurice to re-adjust our maps to suit the Australian RX8s specifically. My advice is since there is no other ECU unit that comes near the quality and workmanship of Maurice's stage 1, I'd be sitting tight, saving my money and looking forward to Maurice re-adjusting the stage 1 kit.
So don't worry, be happy and shortly get ready for the revised stage 1 Australian RX8 review.
Cheers
Michael
01-28-2004, 03:47 PM
#68
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Duplicate, no, triplicate post -- I thought this was not encouraged. Perhaps at least the two threads in the Aus section should be consolidated 
Last edited by timbo; 01-28-2004 at 04:07 PM.
01-28-2004, 04:17 PM
#69
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Timbo
Congratulations on posting another **** Retentive response .
The thread was posted in different sections to make sure that all that inquired and complained about the restricted info on the stage1 kit nowwas available for all to see .
michael
Congratulations on posting another **** Retentive response .
The thread was posted in different sections to make sure that all that inquired and complained about the restricted info on the stage1 kit nowwas available for all to see .
michael
01-28-2004, 04:56 PM
#70
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… which would possibly be acceptable if the post wasn't self-indulgent and provided objective information over and above that which we have already seen. Where is "all the info" then?
01-28-2004, 06:10 PM
#71
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So lets see...........crucified for no information and self indulgent when we provide information.....................are you male or female Timbo?!...........sounds like the type of trouble I get into all the time with my wife
01-28-2004, 06:37 PM
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Originally posted by emack
So lets see...........crucified for no information and self indulgent when we provide information.....................are you male or female Timbo?!...........sounds like the type of trouble I get into all the time with my wife
So lets see...........crucified for no information and self indulgent when we provide information.....................are you male or female Timbo?!...........sounds like the type of trouble I get into all the time with my wife
Emack you shouldnt be so hard on Timbo ,maybe its that time of the month./ year ,ha ha ha.
I for one have decided i will not be posting or sharing any more information on the stage 1 on the Australian forum .
I will carry out the further tests that i have disscused with maurice at my own expense and if any one wants more info i suggest you ask maurice .
cheers
michael
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