RXE16T

So Schumacher driving your RX8 will be faster than you in a 360 Modena?

takahashi

Gibbo a 190kmh at the end of main straight of Sandown need a bit of braking distance going to turn 1 which dips down to the right. And I am using the ABS with the tail wiggling before turning in at 3rd gear.

I am braking nice and deep, my instructor Matt is saying. I am power sliding slightly and correctly with DSC off (not totally off since I still want my EBD for some strange reason - my braking still not perfect).

I am sure semi slick will give more grip for back end but it is not going to do more if you have not learnt to drive first.... After 4 track day and 1000km on the track. I think I should upgrade myself to a semi slick.

Schume will be drifiting my car and may be a second or 2 quicker - sure!

rpm_pwr

What tyres does the DC5 run? You really shouldn't be 2 secs slower than him unless he's on some damn good rubber. Then again I'm pretty skeptical of this "170kw"

So maybe Gibbo has a point. At first the big gains are made in the driver. I've seen exactly the same car back-to-back have a 7 second/lap difference just by changing drivers. Once you get up to a decent level the gains are much smaller. That's where tyres make a bigger difference.

The semi-slicks you're looking at are brilliant tyres. Watch the Michelins though, the M3 CSLs tear through them VERY quickly.

takahashi

It is S-02... he tuned his car with Hondata and getting 170kW+ though (128 at the wheels).

They tune iVTEC as well as the open loop fuel map. It was the 5th car they tuned.

Gibbo has a big point. I first did a 1"39 in my first track day

AMG

Gibbo, tyres ensure you stick to your chosen line, that's where the times improve. If you choose to use average tyres than you'll be sliding all over the place. Tyres also ensure that your braking systems are working to their optimum.

We have experienced 1 second lap time improvements just by getting tyre pressures jaut right when I was trying different tyre compounds on my racer.

A better cornering/braking car will often outlap a faster car.

rpm_pwr

Now that I believe

Now go get those tyres!

timbo

Sounds like a great day Personally, I reckon the 8 is great, straight out of the box :D -- maybe another set of tyres and better brakes if you are going to do more than, say, 3 track days a year. If you are going to do more track work than that, then personally I'd be looking at another car to do track work with. There are too many compromises in trying to make your daily drive competitive -- plus the risk you might have to bring it back one day on the back of a truck.

The 8 has copped a bit of stick for not being a 'sports' car. But, in my opinion, it is exactly that; great for a day's spirited track driving, then perfectly comfortable to drive home afterwards.....


...... wonder when the next Wakefield Track Day is coming up :p

timbo

BTW, on the subject of brake upgrades, Jon Waterhouse at Reliance ROtary here in Canberra told me a month or so ago he was going to be working on a Brembo upgrade for the 8's brakes. Must find out where he's up to...

atridge

This was my second track day so I am still a newbie and I changed to S03's for it. I did notice improvements in lap times but that could also be because I am gaining some more experience on the track. On my first track day I was lapping at about 1.41 and this time it was low 1.38. I felt a lot more comfortable with these tyres compared to the RE040. I didn't really have the guts to turn off the DSC but I might give it a go next time.

takahashi

DSC all off I would say. If I had semislick I will. hehe

Talking about tyre pressure AMG. The michellin guy told me that if the air temp in the low 20s should run 43psi (when hot) but if you like some margin of error drop it down to 40psi. What do you think? I found I am more on the limit of the RE040 if I run at 43psi (hot - like at the end of 5 laps).

Gibbo

Whilst I understand what you are saying and agree, what you are missing is that if your tyres are sliding then you need to ask youself why? Basically you have over cooked the corner or are breaking to hard or accelerating to hard. You have to find the limit with your current setup and perfect it, if you get slicks or semi slicks then you will find the same problem in that you will eventually get past the grip point and start sliding again.

Don't get me wrong I am all for improvements in grip, speed and performance, however I see and hear so often of people that have a car that will perform at a high level but their own true ability is so far below that that they try to compensate by adding or blaming things when really they haven't rung the neck of what they have.
I don't want this to sound like I have reached the limits of the Rx-8 because I haven't, I have a lot of improvement to go however I understand my most significant gains have come through technique and not through modification.

takahashi

Yes there are 3 sayings that I live by:

Practice makes perfect
Learn and remember your mistakes
To do a job properly you first acquire proper tool

RXE16T

Practice does not make you perfect, it just makes you better than the competition.

fatmarco

i agree with gibbo,
and in fact if you were more inclined to switch off the dsc with semi slicks think about this. You probably be going faster and be more out of control when you start to slide/spin... So in fact maybe the dsc would be better off on the standard tyres and maybe on with the semi-slicks. It is what many people comment on with the m3csl/michelin semi-slicks.
fatmarco

AMG

If I were to do performance modifications to improve track times (without FI), it will be in the following order:



1. Springs/shocks/sway bars
2. Tyres
3. Brakes

oops, forgot, hymee exhaust is number 1.

takahashi

Yes Hymee exhaust can produce sounds waves that propagate you forward... or can push the car behind you further back :p

True and true... so you need to practise on the drift don't you. I found the DSC fully on is too restricted when powering up the car... but DSC all off I will **** my pants off if I went in to a corner too quickly and I have the light brake at mid corner. But you can control the drift with confident - and only by that stage you switch DSC totally off. I am only half off by pushing it once to keep the EBD running.

I think the tyre pressure is vital(no matter you're on semi slick or OEM tyres). There are some OEM tyres that are not forgiving, that the skid is on/off thing. Which some driver on the day from DC5R and WRX commented RE040 as such tyres.

AMG is that right and which tyre do you think worth as a semi slick for instance?

Lock & Load

I would say that my money would still be on Schuey , as he would know how to drive the RX8 at its full limit whilst most drivers couldnt even drive the ferrari at sixtenths of its limit .

No offence to any of the budding racing drivers out there , however overestimating your abilities on the track is not a wise move .

Gibbo i agree 100% driver ability is upmost for best result , tyres brakes whilst important you have to have the ability to know when and how to use them .

cheers
michael

AMG

LOL!, kinda like jet propulsion

you'll find that a decent suspension set up will help you out heaps here and also a touch of left foot braking.

tyre pressures are very subjective. I run my road tyres to 40psi. On my racer we ranged the pressures between 25-28psi depending on track and ambient temp.

Semi slicks.....Dunlop D98J!

rpm_pwr

I find all this talk of 'drifting' round corners deeply disturbing.

takahashi

Why have you been scarred?

Drifting is ok on the track and skid pad.... :D

Gibbo

I have owned many cars in my life but I can safely say that the RX-8 is the only car I have ever owned that has made me want to be come a better driver. I want to know it limits, I want to know my limits and then I want to build on them.
I have added the sports exhaust and the piggy back ecu in anticipation of FI, however my next spend will be sway bars and adjustable suspension. I will go semi slicks on my stock mags when the current tyres pack it in and then I will get new mags for everyday driving, however I want to leave my car as standard as I can till I get better so that I know when my times improve it is because I am driving better and learning the car better rather than the cars performance being the only factor.
My comments are not for everyone, and some people do want to improve their lap times any way they can, however my feeling is that I want to do it one step at a time and for it to be a real measurable improvement that I can replicate in any car not just in a car that runs slicks , sway bars, FI, lowered suspension etc etc.

RXP33D

Well put gibbo...

Respect!!

rotarenvy

I agree the 8 really requires some technique to get the most out of it. At the track day the thing I noticed the most (when I got the chance to look down briefly) was the DSC light flickering on. on the street the DSC is very unobtrusive and only kicks in when you get out of line which makes me think my driving on the track was far from smooth or the right line.

I'm dieing to go back to the track but the hero factor on the day was way to high for me considering damage was at the grace of the insurance company and I don't reckon they would be inclined to pay out.

takahashi

Yeah... I think so too. I was telling my friend not to do all the mods prior to yesterday's track day. Do a pre and post evaulation. And ask yourself what you want for the next track day.

1st time I did it stock
2nd time I add sway and strut and brake pads
3rd time I add exhaust, air filter, oil filter, racing brake fluids.
4th time I add piggyback.

so I guess tyre and extra set of wheel is next...

Yes insurance will not pay out accident on the track... it is a shame really, and the racing insurance is so expensive.
Consider that track day is not race day and you should be only doing 9/10th not 110%,... it is still controlled driving. It is way better than doing it on the road.

You know that insurance will not pay if you are booked speeding in an accident. So where are you going to enjoy 180kmh - yes on the track.

rotarenvy

it is a shame realy the insurance companies would probably pay out less if you did controled sprints at the track But their policies encourage you to do spirited driving on the public roads.

I'd like to do more sprint days but 8 or 9 cars on the track at once the risk factor is too high. I'd prefer them to do 2-3 cars for 5 laps on 5 laps off.