BVD

Hi all,

I haven’t been here for a while, due to spending all my spare forum time lately waffling on about guitars (my current obsession being trying to learn to play the things).

But something rather weird happened to me in the RX8 today, and I wondered if anyone else had experienced anything similar. I also wondered what you guys would have done?

I was driving sedately along a 4 lane road in Perth (the south end of Collier Rd Bassendean) at the 70kph limit. There was pretty much no traffic around except a silver late model sedan coming towards me. For some reason the driver decided to chuck a huge tyre smoking U turn, across all four lanes with clouds of smoke and a goodly amount of tyre shrieking. He or she never managed to control the car and promptly smacked into the kerb on my side. They took out a section of concrete kerbing about 2 metres long, with a thunderous crash and shower of dirt. They then fish-tailed down the road a bit with a long strip of metal hanging off the side of the car, still smoking, and with the back wheel apparently buckled.

Instead of pulling over, they kept the foot down and ended up facing back towards me again, back on the other side of the road. All this happened reasonably well down the road, and until it spun around again I was not near the car and hadn’t even needed to brake.

But seeing it still thrashing about a bit, I decided that my best course of action was to stay in the inside line and just gun it through. This went fine and I passed the car still at about a lane and a half distance apart. Now I didn't really wish to stop and discover whether the driver had stolen the car, had a pack of ugly mates on board, was simply a moron, drunk, drugged or might even just fancy rounding the excitement off by taking out a fancy looking car. So I kept going without getting a look at either the driver or the rego number.

A bit dramatic, but nothing really to write home about. Until the next set of lights, when a Hyundai 4 wheel drive with the windows down pulled up next to me and the occupants started yelling at me! The shrieking woman driver was yelling that they’d seen me hit the car, and had got my number. The male passenger chipped in with something or other as well. I yelled back that I had nothing to do with the accident. For the next couple of sets of lights I continued to yell at them that the car had lost control without my involvement, while they scanned my car for the damage, which wasn’t there! Eventually the guy shouted at me “ah, chill out” and drove off.

So what to do? A spinning smoking car with a bright yellow sports car next to it must look awfully like some idiots having a race from a distance. The fool who’d smashed the car might well decide to concoct some story about how I’d run him off the road. And I’m just one guy in a lairy looking sports car.

So I continued to the guitar shop, bought my chromatic tuner, and then drove to my local cop shop and reported the incident, including the number of the car with the abusers in it. A young policewoman came out and confirmed that my car was damage free. I made no complaint, but it seemed best to have the car looked at, and report my story before some idiot jumped in with an invented version.

Maybe this is all in a day's driving in Sydney, but for an old country boy like me it was all a bit alarming.

What would you have done?

Gomez

The cops will take one look at the silver fox and decide he is innocent of all charges.... :p .

I would have high tailed it out of there too.

BVD

Thanks Gomez.

I'll call you as character witness when they drag me off to the nick....

My apprehension about the whole thing was somewhat exaggerated by the fact that I'd just been listening to Bob Dylan singing "Hurricane". A song all about some guy who'd been set up and framed for something he supposedly didn't do

Sad really. A few years back I'd have stopped to see if all was OK, and I'd have quietly asked the Hyundai to pull over and explained it all.

Not sure if it's symptomatic the general decline in society and cummunication - or just the caution of advancing senility....

Gomez

Your description of the other driver's behaviour certainly tends to indicate the thing was stolen......I s'pose I would have tried to get the rego. Nothing to gain and lots to lose by stopping......unless you had seen the thing hit a tree, of course.

sco

If everyone looked OK I would've high tailed it out of there too... The only thing to me that could be questioned was failing to render assistance at the scene of an accident but I think you can safely argue you feared for your safety as that sort of driving and post accident behaviour is not something a normal person would do and it didn't sound like anyone was hurt badly (but IANAL).

I assume you have a pretty good driving record, weren't out picking fights nor escaping from your last bank robbery, so I'd be surprised if you weren't believed if something was concocted. Going to the police was probably the right thing to do.

Hopefully someone who can say IAAL will chip in.

kukubird

Hi BVD, I'm from Perth also. I was just at multistorey carpark down on Murray St. retrieving my car, and noticed a couple of hill-billy looking like moronic kids that seemed high on something in a brand new champagnish color maxima chirping their tires by sporadic braking and cornering too quickly (yes moronic cos this was in the carpark).

My first thoughts were that it was in the process of being stolen.....it got held up at the exit boom, and i heard the guy say he had lost his token. So i happily make my exit and mind my own business.....only to see that it drives out seconds after me....I thought it must be their car then.

The car moved very slowly along the road.....it was as if they wanted attention or something. Again minding my own business I drove off. But overall very sus behaviour imho.....I might even avoid that carpark all together now.

So is there some problem with stolen late model maximas lately or something?

I totally think you did the right thing. Being married with kids, I sure wouldn't stop to explain to a bunch of hooligans seemingly out for blood.

BVD

Hi Sco,

Driving record still OK. Clean licence after over 40 years on the road, and no speeding tickets in the 8 in 2 years. There was nothing to suggest that anyone was hurt in the accident, and no other cars were involved. Normally I would have stopped and offered help, but there was something violent about the way the car was being driven that said "keep moving..". As for bank robbery escape - no not today. Haven't done one for weeks now. Mind you, with petrol the price it is, I might have to look that balaclava out soon...

Hi Kukubird,

Sad the way Perth's going isn't it. My wife said she'd heard one of our senior coppers talking recently and he commented that the behaviour of Perth motorists is abyssmal. he reckoned that we have a worse record for road rage and general bad driving than all the other States. :o

Might buy a tank next time.

Cheers, Chris

sco

You could borrow an APC from the SAS... bet you wouldn't get cut off in one of those... and you could be the second person to drive one down the main drag of the CBD

timbo

As you say...that was wierd :shock:

As the others said, you did the right thing...and, as for the pack in the Hyundai---well, wierdness begets wierdness ...and, it's almost self-evident Hyundai owners lack any judgement :p :D

xxup

Looks like the Federal Government may have to issue travel warnings for Perth???

Sounds a scary place..

Sorry to hear that this happened to you.. I wonder if it was one of those staged insurance events that you see in shows like A Current Affair and the Hyandai was the car that was supposed to be the other party - could be an interesting investigation for the police???

rotarenvy

BVD you were right to drive off, I would have done the same not your problem if someone is playing sillybuggers.

I was wondering if it was the insurance scam thing myself.

BVD

Tim,
:D About Hyundai's and judgement.

XXup and Rotarenvy,

How does the insurance scam work? I've not heard about that.

The car that crashed was being driven extremely violently. Had a car of that weight actually hit the side of another car it could easily have resulted in a death in one or other car. One reason I cleared off quickly was I had no wish to be at the centre point of a T-boning if the car had shot directly back towards me again.

The people in the Hyundai were well behind me when the accident happened. I think they just thought they were doing the vigilante thing and were keen to expose the wicked sports car driver who'd caused an accident and then shot through. Just too dumb to eyeball the side of my car for damage before embarking on the shrieking routine!

How does the scam work though. I'm not sure what all the roles would be there?

Cheers, Chris.

sco

I believe you BVD and like I said.. I'd have done exactly the same.

Gomez

A relative of mine was a fraud investigator for an insurance company. She saw many examples of people "staging" accidents. Picture this.....a guy parks his car at a suburban stop sign at night. He gets out and watches as a mate of his rear-ends it while driving a stolen car. Not too hard.....enough to bend a few panels. Perp #2 decamps, our hero jumps back in and ultimately claims whiplash for the next six months. Whiplash is a soft tissue injury. Nothing shows up on an X-Ray. He goes on an extended vacation and the medical insurance/ employer pays the bill. He cares not for his damaged car, it's a beater that the insurance will fix anyway.

Sometimes the whole shebang goes pear-shaped 'cos a witness comes forward and spills the beans. This sort of crap happens all the time. It's a crazy mixed-up world we live in.

And we all wonder why the insurance premiums are so high..... .

xxup

**** Sorry Gomez - You type faster than me I guess ****

It seems to work like this, but there are manty variants..

Car gets a small ding on driver's door - no other party... Too small for claim.. Owner finds another car and rams it.. Insurance claim.. Works really well if the scammer can find someone not paying much attention and can easily be in the wrong.. eg Needs new boot badge so slams on their brakes right in front of you so that you run into them.. You are then at fault for following too closely..

According to one of the media reports two scammers get together and run into each other... Could have been the case with the Hyundai - they would not have been happy that you were in front.. Independant witness... Messy for them.. Anyway as you say they could simply have been loony bin escapees with bad eyesight.. :D

Other variations of this seem to be arround personal injury claims.. I gues it is a variation of the burn your own house down so that you get a new one (or avoid the whole hertiage listing thing) fully paid for by the insurance company..

There is some real low life out there... I find the Current Affair type shows really depressing - that is why I rarely watch them..

takahashi

Was is the business of the Hyandai driver if you did tap and spun the car?

They are asking for trouble. Next time if they really saw one, they would see a shotgun pointing at them. :o A potential nesty circumstances.

It is not the time being a hero, Hyandail drivers!

I would not brother to go to the police, unless you have too much time in your hand... I would just have gone what the ... and shug and wave the Hyandai driver driving off.

BVD

Thanks for the explanations,

Sco, you have an excellent memory. I'd forgotten that guy that drove through the CBD in a "borrowed" army vehicle.

Rotarenvy,

Apologies for initially leaving your name out of my last post. I was called to dinner just as I was typing, and screwed it up.

Gomez and XXup,

Geez it's a sad old world sometimes, with the way people rip others off. My wife worked for a govt department that had cars provided for communal use. One of the cars went out one day with a brand new set of tyres on and later that week it was noticed it now had baldies on. Someone had driven it home and just done a swap. As it was a big organisation (government) some people seem to think that's OK. And they couldn't put everyone under suspicion and grille evrybody in the building (and it wasn't really anybody's role to do that) so they got away scot free.

I don't think it was scam in this case. The Hyundai was waaay behind, and the silver sedan really was being driven very violently. It was probably stolen, or else someone was very angry about something and did a really violent turn as a result. Domestic argument or something, who knows. But it seemed extraordinarily out of character to se that sort of car driven that way. Mum and dad type car that was fairly new.

Cheers, Chris

BVD

I guess I was just a bit shaken up by it all. I've seen smashes before, but I've never seen a car wrecked right in front of me for no obvious reason. There was heaps of room for a U turn - four lanes - and plenty of time to do it slowly.

It just looked and sounded like a really wild and angry thing to do, and I felt completely unable to predict what the driver might do next. I wasn't about to dawdle past speculating while the car was still in motion.

I think the second incident is pretty easily explained - it just came right on top of the other before my heart rate had got back to normal!

The cop shop was only a small detour on the way home. and my version (and an inspection of my damage free car) was done and "logged in the book". I just felt calmer and "covered" after that.

Maybe I'm getting too old, and it's time for one of those little motorised three wheeled things that old codgers trundle down the footpaths in..... :o

Cheers, Chris.

Thanks for all the supportive posts guys.

xxup

Hymee Enhanced - of course!!!! :D :D :D

Ciao

How are your scales going ..

get your chops up mate :D Practice those pentatonics :p

Ciao

Dave

BVD

:D Going pretty well thanks Dave. It's a great journey. Don't think I'll be catching up to you any time soon though. But I have mastered a few of the angles .

As my sig at the Guitanoise forum says:

So far I’ve mastered “Talking about Guitars”, “Coveting Guitars”, “Buying Guitars and Guitar Accessories”, "Sitting with Guitar on Lap" and “Collecting Guitar Books”. One day I really must get around to learning to play…

I've got as far as playing a few songs, learning a modest but useful swag of chords, and even joining in on the section where we have to write a new song each week on a given theme. Learned a lot doing that. One lessons learned being that singing requires a goodly chunk of study and practice too! There's a long road ahead with plenty of bends and bumps - but that's just the way I like it...... :D

Cheers, Chris.

Revolver

Hi Chris

Good to hear from you again, even if the circumstances are, as you say, weird.

Firstly, I think you did exactly the right thing, especially by reporting the incident to the police. A detailed contemporaneous report (when the facts are freshest in your memory) is always hard to discredit and of course going to the police voluntarily rather than waiting for them to contact you is best.

I also agree you did the right thing by not stopping. As to avoiding the other car colliding with you, that's just a judgment call we've all had to make at one stage or another of our driving careers (unless you've been lucky enough never to have been in the vicinity of a car out of control). As to avoiding the occupants - also a good idea.

From your description of the incident, I doubt the car was stolen. Has all the hallmarks of a heated domestic dispute. For example, an argument breaks out about whether or not they should turn back for a forgetten item, it escalates and the driver (most likely male), loses his cool, executes a dangerous u-turn to scare the wife as payback for nagging him and then she backs down and he decides to turn back around and keep going. Could be many other explanations but that seems to fit the behaviour.

The people in the Hyundai were probably, as you say, do-gooders who wished to dob in the sports car lair. Funny how they didn't stop huh?

As for the insurance scams mentioned by others previously I can confirm that these were all the rage in NSW about 15-20 years ago.

The old staged rear-ender resulting in a whippy and subsequent claim was mass produced by certain, ahem, sections of the community for quite a few years. Indeed, it wasn't uncommon for the 'victim car' to be coincidentally filled with occupants who all 'got a sore neck'. Of course, nothing would show up on x-ray or CT-scan (this was before MRI's were used widely) but the complaints would continue to be bitterly expressed.

Usually, the lawyer would file a claim for each occupant, the insurer would offer $5,000 a piece, the lawyer would take $2,000 'for costs' and the claimant would pocket $3,000. Some families used to bring a claim every other year or so (anybody who was a fan of Rumpole would remember the Timsons). Some lawyers were suspected of colluding with those staging the 'accidents' but I don't think any lawyers ever got caught.

Every now and then the claimants would get pinged when the insurer was lucky enough to find an independent witness but in the end the govt killed it off by introducing thresholds into the legislation - unless you can prove you are quite seriously injured these days you do not recover much so these small claims have gone the way of the dodo. Good thing too - very grubby business which led a lot of people to doubt genuinely injured victims.

BTW, about a year ago, I was driving down the M4 and saw a white Hiace type van lose it sideways and spin end over end a few times - very nasty. This was some way up ahead and by the time I got there about 6 or so cars had stopped to render assistance. Rather than block the side of the road any further (and perhaps cause another accident) I elected to carry on, with some fairly large shots of adrenalin shooting through me.

Whoops, I have banged on. Sorry. :o

Dave

Revolver

Hey Kall

That kind of thing is just a daily occurrence in Sydney - some very stressed out impatient people around.

Gomez

Hahahaha....I look forward to chatting with you at the Nats... .

Cheers,
Gomez.