Why 1 oil cooler in high spec car
08-18-2003, 12:51 AM
#1
Banned
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Gold Coast Australia
Posts: 3,535
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
Why 1 oil cooler in high spec car
Spoke to Mazda as to why the high power rx8 had only 1 oil cooler , as usual the answer had to be found after waiting for a while , i was told that because of different power outputs in Australia and emission ,and temperature differences to the US cars we only needed 1 oil cooler.
IMO this answer is a lot of bull **** , id be more inclined to say that its purely a cost saving measure on Mazda's behalf , I enquired the temperature difference between the 52 states in US and the temperature here in Australia .
MAZDA SHOULD NOT TREAT ALL ITS CUSTOMERS AS WOOD DUCKS.
So if you are serious about doing any racing in your rx8 you'd better look at the oil cooler , and put in a second one as a safeguard .
Others should ring Mazda ,and see what other B/S excuse they give others ????
IMO this answer is a lot of bull **** , id be more inclined to say that its purely a cost saving measure on Mazda's behalf , I enquired the temperature difference between the 52 states in US and the temperature here in Australia .
MAZDA SHOULD NOT TREAT ALL ITS CUSTOMERS AS WOOD DUCKS.
So if you are serious about doing any racing in your rx8 you'd better look at the oil cooler , and put in a second one as a safeguard .
Others should ring Mazda ,and see what other B/S excuse they give others ????
08-18-2003, 12:52 AM
#2
Banned
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Gold Coast Australia
Posts: 3,535
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
To me it seems odd that a 250 hp car needs 2 oil coolers but a 231 hp car needs only 1 oil cooler .
250 HP ,being US high power spec 2 OIL COOLERS .
231hp, being OZ high power spec with only 1 oil cooler i want to know WHY ??????????
As donald c said maybe we have been conned .
250 HP ,being US high power spec 2 OIL COOLERS .
231hp, being OZ high power spec with only 1 oil cooler i want to know WHY ??????????
As donald c said maybe we have been conned .
08-18-2003, 01:02 AM
#3
Banned
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Gold Coast Australia
Posts: 3,535
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
The oil cooler mystery deepens , i have found out that the high spec model in UK also has 2 oil coolers , so why only 1 in the so called high power model in australia .
From my source within mazda i have found out that the cost of an oil cooler is $885 dollars plus cost of fitting , so you possible wont see much change from $ 1, 500 dollars .
Most likely here lies the true reason why the OZ cars only get 1 oil cooler COST COST COST and nothing else but COST , UNLESS WE HAVE BEEN GIVEN THE LOWER POWERED OUTPUT ENGINE , IN THE GUISE OF THE HIGH POWER , why i say this is because only the low power car only gets the 1 oil cooler.
MAZDA WE WANT SOME REAL ANSWERS AND SOON .
From my source within mazda i have found out that the cost of an oil cooler is $885 dollars plus cost of fitting , so you possible wont see much change from $ 1, 500 dollars .
Most likely here lies the true reason why the OZ cars only get 1 oil cooler COST COST COST and nothing else but COST , UNLESS WE HAVE BEEN GIVEN THE LOWER POWERED OUTPUT ENGINE , IN THE GUISE OF THE HIGH POWER , why i say this is because only the low power car only gets the 1 oil cooler.
MAZDA WE WANT SOME REAL ANSWERS AND SOON .
08-18-2003, 04:20 AM
#4
Originally posted by Lock & Load
have found out that the high spec model in UK also has 2 oil coolers
have found out that the high spec model in UK also has 2 oil coolers
By asking us, and we dont know yet.
No ones seen an official Eurp spec Hi-Power yet, it may turn up with just 1 oil cooler.
08-18-2003, 04:59 AM
#5
Banned
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Gold Coast Australia
Posts: 3,535
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
My contact at mazda was tryng to find the discrepency with the OZ oil cooler , he veryfied that both the US and the UK market are getting the 2 oil coolers in the high spec car , and he then gave me the OZ pricing of a oil cooler .
08-18-2003, 12:53 PM
#8
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Maryland, USA
Posts: 72
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Why 1 oil cooler in high spec car
Originally posted by Lock & Load
I enquired the temperature difference between the 52 states in US
I enquired the temperature difference between the 52 states in US
Don't worry, many "Americans" make the same mistake as well and they live here!
08-18-2003, 12:57 PM
#9
_________________
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Cambridge - UK
Posts: 1,384
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Re: Why 1 oil cooler in high spec car
Originally posted by medcina
Did the U.S. pickup 2 states that I don't know about?
Don't worry, many "Americans" make the same mistake as well and they live here!
Did the U.S. pickup 2 states that I don't know about?
Don't worry, many "Americans" make the same mistake as well and they live here!
08-18-2003, 02:16 PM
#10
I'd like to add my views on this.
Whilst it would be inconvenient to have to go through a warranty process if something failed, at least you have the protection offered by the warranty. Mazda is obvioulsy prepared to take on that "extra risk", or have deemed it unnecessary for here.
If you are going to do track work then fit an extra one yourself. I don't see the need for the $1500 job. I recently fitted a supplementary oil cooler to my SS purely for track work. The cooler was $95 dollars from Paul Wheel radiators, very high quality. And 2 metres of hose was $25. Throw in some more $ for some high pressure fittings if you like.
Oil cooler
$95
PWRO/C4CYL 280x110x19 (3/8Barb) Trans Cooler
PWR Performance Products (KJ Thermal Products)
(07) 5598 1499
They have heaps of stock sizes, and also custom make them. Very high quality workmanship, intended for motorsport applications. They were quite happy to even send me Autocad drawings via email so I could ensure I chose the correct product. Units with threaded fittings are available as well.
Hydraulic Hose
$25.28
A606 Push ON 3/8 400PSI Hydraulic Hose (2 meters)
Industrial Hydraulics
(07) 3854 1232
BTW - I would like to see Mazda try to void warranty from doing track work after this little gem in their '8 brochure:
"OFF 2 enables a skilled driver to perform drift manouvers in controlled conditions on a racetrack"
Cheers,
Hymee.
Whilst it would be inconvenient to have to go through a warranty process if something failed, at least you have the protection offered by the warranty. Mazda is obvioulsy prepared to take on that "extra risk", or have deemed it unnecessary for here.
If you are going to do track work then fit an extra one yourself. I don't see the need for the $1500 job. I recently fitted a supplementary oil cooler to my SS purely for track work. The cooler was $95 dollars from Paul Wheel radiators, very high quality. And 2 metres of hose was $25. Throw in some more $ for some high pressure fittings if you like.
Oil cooler
$95
PWRO/C4CYL 280x110x19 (3/8Barb) Trans Cooler
PWR Performance Products (KJ Thermal Products)
(07) 5598 1499
They have heaps of stock sizes, and also custom make them. Very high quality workmanship, intended for motorsport applications. They were quite happy to even send me Autocad drawings via email so I could ensure I chose the correct product. Units with threaded fittings are available as well.
Hydraulic Hose
$25.28
A606 Push ON 3/8 400PSI Hydraulic Hose (2 meters)
Industrial Hydraulics
(07) 3854 1232
BTW - I would like to see Mazda try to void warranty from doing track work after this little gem in their '8 brochure:
"OFF 2 enables a skilled driver to perform drift manouvers in controlled conditions on a racetrack"
Cheers,
Hymee.
Last edited by Hymee; 08-18-2003 at 02:25 PM.
08-18-2003, 03:12 PM
#11
Prodigal Wankler
Originally posted by Hymee
BTW - I would like to see Mazda try to void warranty from doing track work after this little gem in their '8 brochure:
"OFF 2 enables a skilled driver to perform drift manouvers in controlled conditions on a racetrack"
BTW - I would like to see Mazda try to void warranty from doing track work after this little gem in their '8 brochure:
"OFF 2 enables a skilled driver to perform drift manouvers in controlled conditions on a racetrack"
Thanks,
Jon
ex-Melbournite
08-18-2003, 03:16 PM
#12
_________________
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Cambridge - UK
Posts: 1,384
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by eccles
Interesting, I don't recall seeing any mention of the "full off" DSC setting in the US brochure. Could one of you guys scan a copy of the Oz brochure and post it somewhere or email the scans to me and I'll host them? (PM for my email address.)
Thanks,
Jon
ex-Melbournite
Interesting, I don't recall seeing any mention of the "full off" DSC setting in the US brochure. Could one of you guys scan a copy of the Oz brochure and post it somewhere or email the scans to me and I'll host them? (PM for my email address.)
Thanks,
Jon
ex-Melbournite
08-18-2003, 07:02 PM
#15
Registered
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 1,459
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
On the DSC fully off --the manual states that if you hold the button down for more than one second, the DSC interprets this as a fault in the button.
See the bottom of the note on page 5-23 of the US owners manual and I quote:
Leaving the TCS/DSC on will
provide the best stability. When the
TCS/DSC is off, the TCS/DSC does
not activate but the brake LSD
function remains.
• If the DSC OFF switch is pressed
and held for a second or more, the
TCS/DSC system may become
inoperative due to the system
detecting switch trouble. If the
TCS/DSC system becomes
inoperative, the TCS/DSC and the
DSC OFF indicator lights
illuminate simultaneously. In this
case, turn off the engine and restart
it to restore the TCS/DSC.
It's not good that this information is inaccurate.
(Definition of an owners manual: Something that gets read cover to cover when you're anxiously waiting to get your car.)
See the bottom of the note on page 5-23 of the US owners manual and I quote:
Leaving the TCS/DSC on will
provide the best stability. When the
TCS/DSC is off, the TCS/DSC does
not activate but the brake LSD
function remains.
• If the DSC OFF switch is pressed
and held for a second or more, the
TCS/DSC system may become
inoperative due to the system
detecting switch trouble. If the
TCS/DSC system becomes
inoperative, the TCS/DSC and the
DSC OFF indicator lights
illuminate simultaneously. In this
case, turn off the engine and restart
it to restore the TCS/DSC.
It's not good that this information is inaccurate.
(Definition of an owners manual: Something that gets read cover to cover when you're anxiously waiting to get your car.)
08-20-2003, 06:54 PM
#16
aka Smoothy
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Brisbane Australia
Posts: 186
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The first thing for me to make clear on this reply is I am not a technical expert but here is my theory.
All of the other regions that have dual oil coolers have areas with minimum temperatures much lower than we experience in Australia. I have also noticed that they are using a thinner grade of oil than we are. Typically grade of 5- 30. No doubt they need this thin oil for the super low temperature cold starts they need to do. Once the engine has reached normal operating temperature the oil that is circulating in it is a thinner grade than we use here. (I checked out what grade the dealer put in at my 1000klm service and it was 15-40) Thinner grade oils are going to be more prone to damage from high temperatures hence those markets that need to use thinner oils due to their low temperatures get two oil coolers to protect that type of oil.
So yes Mazda have cut costs and I am not defending that but maybe this is why they have made this move.
All of the other regions that have dual oil coolers have areas with minimum temperatures much lower than we experience in Australia. I have also noticed that they are using a thinner grade of oil than we are. Typically grade of 5- 30. No doubt they need this thin oil for the super low temperature cold starts they need to do. Once the engine has reached normal operating temperature the oil that is circulating in it is a thinner grade than we use here. (I checked out what grade the dealer put in at my 1000klm service and it was 15-40) Thinner grade oils are going to be more prone to damage from high temperatures hence those markets that need to use thinner oils due to their low temperatures get two oil coolers to protect that type of oil.
So yes Mazda have cut costs and I am not defending that but maybe this is why they have made this move.
08-20-2003, 07:27 PM
#17
Banned
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Gold Coast Australia
Posts: 3,535
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
RX8-SMOOTH your reply seems logicall , however that does not give mazda the rigth to brag about the rx8 sporting performance etc and then sneak in the 1 oil cooler with out letting the c
ustomer have the option of having the extra oil cooler .
Credebility is everything and so far mazda for me has lost some of it.
ustomer have the option of having the extra oil cooler .
Credebility is everything and so far mazda for me has lost some of it.
08-20-2003, 07:39 PM
#18
aka Smoothy
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Brisbane Australia
Posts: 186
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by Lock & Load
RX8-SMOOTH your reply seems logicall , however that does not give mazda the rigth to brag about the rx8 sporting performance etc and then sneak in the 1 oil cooler with out letting the c
ustomer have the option of having the extra oil cooler .
Credebility is everything and so far mazda for me has lost some of it.
RX8-SMOOTH your reply seems logicall , however that does not give mazda the rigth to brag about the rx8 sporting performance etc and then sneak in the 1 oil cooler with out letting the c
ustomer have the option of having the extra oil cooler .
Credebility is everything and so far mazda for me has lost some of it.
Communication is EVERYTHING
08-20-2003, 08:25 PM
#19
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 637
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have a JDM Type S (ie the 250ps version) and it has one oil cooler on the left side. So far, engine temperatures have not been a problem, including while being stuck in traffic jams. No high speed running yet, as I'm still running in the car.
08-21-2003, 04:41 AM
#20
Registered
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 1,459
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'd have to agree with rx8 - smooth's opinion, but I'm no mechanical expert.
Also disappointed that mazda has not come up with an accurate explanation. They have a lot to learn about participating with enthusiasts... especially that from a customer relations, satisfaction and sales perspective looking after your biggest supporters is a no brainer.
Also disappointed that mazda has not come up with an accurate explanation. They have a lot to learn about participating with enthusiasts... especially that from a customer relations, satisfaction and sales perspective looking after your biggest supporters is a no brainer.
08-21-2003, 08:38 AM
#21
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 106
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Too right! They give us a thick book detailing very techinical information about the car and then say nothing when we query them about a certain point.
Donald
Donald
08-22-2003, 05:28 AM
#22
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 782
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You guys have to consider the costs part of this.
Mazda Australia are ripping us off when you consider the cost of the car in Japan & USA.
Australian dollars
RX-8 (Oz) $56,000
RX-8 (Jap) $36,000
RX-8 (USA) $42,000
All for the same car, go figure.!!!
If Mazda Australia have ommitted a 2nd oil-cooler then I bet its to save cost due to the higher pricing of our cars
Mazda Australia are ripping us off when you consider the cost of the car in Japan & USA.
Australian dollars
RX-8 (Oz) $56,000
RX-8 (Jap) $36,000
RX-8 (USA) $42,000
All for the same car, go figure.!!!
If Mazda Australia have ommitted a 2nd oil-cooler then I bet its to save cost due to the higher pricing of our cars
08-22-2003, 07:40 AM
#23
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 92
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
hi guys
i e-mailed mazda about the oil cooler. here's the reply:
what do you think of that? japanese rx-8s get one oil cooler also.
mike
*** start quote ***
Dear Dr Chin,
This is correct. Japan models also only have one oil cooler.
The reason however has nothing to do with high speed driving as claimed.
European and US models get two because they can experience long periods
(some hours) of stationary or low speed crawling in enormous traffic jams
coupled with very high ambient temperatures (such as the weather in Europe
last week).
Regards
Maria Ramirez
Customer Relations
Mazda Australia
*** end quote ***
i e-mailed mazda about the oil cooler. here's the reply:
what do you think of that? japanese rx-8s get one oil cooler also.
mike
*** start quote ***
Dear Dr Chin,
This is correct. Japan models also only have one oil cooler.
The reason however has nothing to do with high speed driving as claimed.
European and US models get two because they can experience long periods
(some hours) of stationary or low speed crawling in enormous traffic jams
coupled with very high ambient temperatures (such as the weather in Europe
last week).
Regards
Maria Ramirez
Customer Relations
Mazda Australia
*** end quote ***
08-22-2003, 08:43 AM
#25
Registered User
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Sydney
Posts: 214
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My view... I've now done about 3,000 km in the 8, some of it down at Goulburn at -8 degrees with ice on the car, and lots of it stuck in traffic in the centre of Sydney... I've never seen the temp guage move away from the centre position...
So... I don't think we have a problem.
So... I don't think we have a problem.