Gord96BRG

Maybe he'll just take his 168 whp car to the track and beat your best ever quarter mile time and trap speed. :p (per posted time slips of 14.5 and 96 mph for RX-8s). :p

Regards,
Gordon

Jasper_the_2nd

Not to change the subject...

Here are my data files from the dyno.

ZoomZoom

What application should I use to open the files inside your ZIP file?

Evolv

iTrader: (1)

Can you recommend a program to open those with?

Evolv

iTrader: (1)

Damn ZoomZoom beat me to this

Jasper_the_2nd

The only one I have is the one the Dyno guy has available for download. You can get it here:

http://www.dynomight.ca/downloads/

You'll want the RunViewer.

There may be some other ones listed in some of the dyno discussions in the tech area.

B-Nez

gee whiz, can we maybe get a screen cap of the graphs. Seems kinda silly for everyone to download and install this software just to see someone's dyno charts.

mdmaclean

Done!

canzoomer

Same old 7K scrambled eggs mess.

You know, the automatics were supposed to be 210HP at 7100, with 7500 redline.

And how does this differ?

Oh, right, higher redline.

Jasper_the_2nd

7300 rpm is where the variable dynamic intake valve is supposed to open, right? And for some reason that seems to be where things get ugly.

I'd like to see an auto dynoed some time to see if they get the same mess after that valve opens for them, at 5800 rpm.

rotorian

Canzoomer, give it up. You've made your decision, leave well enough alone!

canzoomer

Oh for God's sake.

Go back to your cozy little cocoon, fool.
If you can do nothing but make personal attacks to somebody for pointing out a fact that we have seen in other dyno results, then you are truly clueless.

I commented that these dyno results show the same problem we have seen before:

At around 7K the engine is going whacko.
And that is where we are losing our power.

What I was pointing out is that in the auto transmission version they intentionally cut off at around 7K, and that there ARE no third set of intake ports.

In these dynos we see those ports doing nothing ( except maybe killing our fuel consumption). The curve is quite smooth to this point. We see some gain when the second set of ports opens around 4K. It is at the opening of the third port set that the curve not only falls, but jumps around as it drops off.

This is fair comment on the dyno results. Perhaps it has been mentioned before, but i was just commenting on this being shown again.

Do YOU see more power over 7K?
Do you SEE the dyno curve going all wiggly and falling?
Is it not OBVIOUS??

So, to put it clearly, just in case you did not catch it:

**** off !!

rotorian

Canzoomer,

There is no doubt you are entitled to your opinion, so am I.
Your posts originally were refreshing and welcome, but now you have resorted to sarcasm and name calling.

We all joined this Forum because of our love for the 8.
You must have too. Can you not see that you can be objective without being sarcastic and condescending? Just tone it down a bit.

There was a point where it seemed you had something to say in every thread I looked at, all with the same tone.

What are you trying to do, convert others to your thinking?

The 8 is far from perfect, and Mazda didn't help with all their screw ups. But I have owned alot of cars, and none have put a smile on my face and given such a great value for the money.

MyRxBad

iTrader: (1)

I agree with you about the dyno result. After 7k the extra ports doesn't seem to do anything. I wonder if that port helps with torque at all?

What gear was this sheet done in?

aussie77

Canzoomer the problem is this: you have roughly 350 posts, but most of the last 150-200 of them are saying the same bloody thing in different threads over and over again. We are here as enthusiasts. We understand there is obviously an issue with the dyno tests on the car. You jumping around and throwing it in people's faces over and over isn't helping the situation any.

rotorian

Here here

Jasper_the_2nd

If you download the data you can look at the torque curve, which goes just as crappy after 7k . Or just check any of the US dyno results that show torque, they look the same as mine.

All runs were done in third. We tried a run in 5th (the 1 to 1 ratio gear) on Redshift's car, but there was no appreciable difference in the data, according to the Dyno guy. Hopefully the Dyno guy will send Redshift that run as well as the others and Redshift will post his data whenever he happens to be on again.

Smoker

Guys please don't hi-jack this thread again.....

Canzoomer, please read my comments for you here:
http://www.rx8forum.com/showthread.p...145#post121145


Hey, thanks guys for posting your Dyno results. Just wondering any plans to dyno your cars again next year after everyone have gotten over 20,000kms on them ? (as advised by Mazda)

Jasper_the_2nd

I thought they had mentioned 10,000 km in the discussion on mileage?
Assuming I keep the 8 past Oct 1, which is likely (although I took a 350z out for a drive at lunch, but the the Roadster is a touch expensive) I'm planning on have 10,000 km on it before the end of Oct., so I'm planning on another dyno run just before I put it away for the winter.

Smoker

That's great Jasper. We'll definitely be looking forward to your result from that 10K+ dyno.

Also, it will be interesting to see if people will start to feel a difference in terms of power once they go past 10K.

(the RX-7 guys said their ECU flip over at 10,000km right ? or was it 20,000km ? anyone knows ? )

canzoomer

So, on to doing something about it (maybe).
I have been talking with A'pex And one of their dealers/ performance shops up here in Canada.

To state what their products do, they have a unit which "piggy-backs" the ECU and sensors, and can take over some/all the fuel and ignition control.

They are interested in getting sensor info and other data on an RX-8, and have asked if anyone in Tokyo could be interested in letting them do some testing.
Through a friend we have a candidate in Japan to do this now. He is supposed to have had his car in today ( which, due to time differences was over this morning).

However the Jspec cars don't have the problem, making that testing of only limited usefulness.
So i am taking my car to their Canadian western dealer/installer tomorrow morning for a session of testing and logging.

Anyway, long and short of it, if the car can be fixed by their equipment, and in a fashion that is easily and tracelessly removed for dealer servicing, are there people on this list interested?

As for the comments, look guys, there is a problem.
How much it affects you is of course determined by your goals, desires, and needs.
But simply trying to wish it away will not cut it.
Some of us want to do something, so a little truth once in a while is useful, OK?

I apologize for snapping at Rotarian yesterday, but I made some observations on what we were seeing. I think they were valid, and others here seem to think so as well. I did not need another mindless session of sniping at my butt for making that observation.

Frankly, those who so strongly disagree really puzzle me.
IF you are completely happy with what the power why hang around on threads like this? Morbid curiosity or something?

Anyway, I am still trying to do something to make the car what it was supposed to be. Frankly with or without anyhelp is pretty irrelelevant, but there are somethings that can be done to help.

If anyone is interested we need a shop manual as they are not yet available in Canada ( heck my dealer parts guy commented today he sure wished they could get one!)

I hear that at least some in the USA have been able to obtain one, so if anyone knows where one can be bought, I would appreciate it if you let us know.

We are also looking fo the part # for an ECU.
If we can get a Canada or US tuned ECU to send to Japan, they can check it to see what it is doing at various conditions. This too would be invaluable.

Maybe I am more motivated than the average bear around here, but if we can get what we were told we would get, it would make the car a lot more interesting.

So, in the spirit of co-operation, maybe next time you see a post about people discussing the problems, and feel they are slighting your pride and joy, bite your tongue a second.
Some people ARE trying to do something. Maybe we will not succeed, but it will likely only cost us some time and effort.
And if we do manage to make some useful gains, we all potentially will benefit. Even if power is not interesting to you, I am sure gas mileage might be..

Remember, the first step to solving a problem is to identify it, and the second is to analyze it.

So, let's move on. Dyno tests, observations of things that help understandng of the situation are helpful.

Let's try and do something at least partially together, shall we?

Speed Racer

Canzoomer,
Nice post, I liked how you stated your concerns and also what you plan to do to address them. Talk is cheap but actions speak volumes. I hope this pans out.

You can definitely count me in for the A'pex piggy back ECU if they can add some punch to the limp top end of the Renesis. Just keep us posted as you find out more details. Thanks!

canzoomer

I can promise nothing.
As I watched this all unfold, I was hoping that Mazda and/or the aftermarket would jump in. With the actions that Mazda have taken it somewhat hogties them as to do anything to improve things somewhat implies there is a problem, while they have now said"We found a problem, this is it, that is the end of it"

The aftermarket was reluctant, as they too probably worried they could develop a product, then see the results of their efforts evaporate if Mazda DID do something about it.
Apexi, when we first approached them said "no rx8 parts, not even in development, we are still planning to see if business wise it is worth it (or not)."

I now feel relatively sure that Mazda is doing nothing, at least in this model year, that they will share with us, so the only way we are going to see some results is by members of the community doing it themsleves.

We are not trying to start by re-inventing the wheel.

What we are looking into is essentially what we call in computing terms a "wedge".
A software based device, inline with the ECU, that at certain times, and at certain conditions, will intercept the instructions sent by the ECU to the ignition and fuel system and insert it's own instructions instead. This is made relatively simple by the fact that we see the problems concentrated at the point when the 3rd set of intake runner opens at 7300rpm to 9500rpm.
At this stage the engine is almost certainly being fed an overly rich fuel setting, and perhaps inefficient ignition timing settings.

We plan to gather the data response from the sonsors, and the settings being sent to the fuel injection and timing subsystems and compare those to the same data ion a JSpec car setup.
By determining the differences, we hope to program the wedge to substitute those settings in this limited case.
We are not trying to accompish much more than that for now, but by doing this limited step, we hope to produce a device that inserts inline into the harnesses to the ECU, which will be relatively simple, inexpensive and reliable in use.
We also have to do so in a fashion that is easily and indetectably removeable, so when you go to the dealers, or for an emissions check, you may remove it, to return the car to stock condition.

If we succeed, then Apexi will likely market this through it's existing network of dealers. Fortunately their existing products perform these funtions right now. On the RX-7 3rd gen and 2nd gen turbos they control fuel and boost. Other products they make can be used to control ignition.

If we can not accomplish it with the assistance of Apexi, but still manage to do it by other means, we may have to find another means to distribute it.
Hopefully not, as that is WAY more work!

Wish us luck!!

downshift

Good luck canzoomer. I don't think they should call you a whiner anymore because you're actually doing something to resolve what's bugging you. Keep ignoring the fanboys who take your comments about the car so personally. Let them sit on their hands in contentment. Car forums need people like you to keep the balance and reality in check. We'll see how many of these 'content' but annoyed (at you) owners turn into hypocrites when they spring for this upgrade when such an ECU finally comes out.

canzoomer

Thanks for the positives,downshift.

Don't tempt me though. If this DOES work out it would be rather ironic, wouldn't it?

I look at it this way:
1) I really do like the car.
2) I would REALLY like to get the car I paid for

Apparently to some the idea is sacrilege. I guess I didn't realize I was buying into a religion.
I slammed Mazda (lots) because I am mad at them and think they somewhat suck over here. When I call my dealer and he says he has no shop manual, and essentially no method to fix it if it breaks, how much can "free service" really be worth?

However, the idiots in Mazda North America did not design or build the car. And I got one, at least for now.
This is my last gasp effort to save it.

I made a lot of negative comments about Mazda on purpose. I hoped enough people reading this would be enraged at Mazda, instead of at me, and if they were and the hue and cry got loud enough, maybe they would embarass Mazda into doing something more constructive.
I guess I am tired of being shot for being the messenger.


Who knows where it will go?