DarkBrew

Footman, I'd say yes, it can. The way the screens were placed the airflow to the MAF would not represent the overall airflow.
Neo I'd say that sounds like a great idea. With a few drinks in us we could really take care of Footman's car

Footman

iTrader: (2)

with a flat head screwdriver, this took me 20 minutes to do carefully, and aligning the strap tighteners parallel, and the logo straight to make things perfect.

I think I answered a few questions myself. What Aero8 said was right, the black rubber boot that fits in between the sections are ridged on one side such that the screen cannot possibly be pushed back towards the engine. Upon disassembly, I discovered that the rubber boots were installed in the correct orientation, which means the screens must not have been put in there

I installed them correctly, and realized I can bounce a tennis ball off the mesh without having it get dislodged from the ridge; no amount of air can be as forceful as a tennis ball going into this pipe hitting the mesh, so it's impossible for any airflow to dislodge the screen.

Conclusion: Mazda dealer did not install the intake correctly. They forcibly stuffed the two screens into the section of the CAI closest to the MAF such that it just stays in front of it.

Here are pics of how it is supposed to be done.

Question remains: Aero8 has his installed correctly, and has intake temps of -5 F and threw the occasional CEL at high RPMs. Can these screens which were installed in such way that they were 2 inchs from my MAF and at a slant angle of approx 60 degrees from the walls of the tube, in combination with cold temperatures cause the sputtering from 6000 - 9000 rpm?

Footman

iTrader: (2)

BTW, with a few drinks in you Darkbrew, you'll be too drunk to do the bumper removal properly! and start jabbing the screwdriver missing the screws and hitting the paint!!!

DarkBrew

Footman, you say that like it's a negative thing!

BTW, I vote yes on bad screen placement causing your issue.
A flashing CEL at high RPM is a random misfire and doesn't relate to your issue IMO

Footman

iTrader: (2)

No, I do have flashing CEL's at high RPMs...

Just for an update.. it's day 2 with the stock intake... today's temps have been between 0 - 8 degrees C ambient. I redlined several times, and drove between 6000- 9000rpm with no stuttering or blinking CELs.. everything so far is still smooth.

Renesis_8

tell them to install it!!!! dealer mechanics don't even read instructions right
________
Colorado Medical Marijuana

Aero8

footman, as darkbrew said, the flashing CEL's are just random misfires and the rare times I get them, temp has been all over the board. I should've specified that the flashing CEL wasn't in the cold weather and aren't frequent.

As for your situation. Since you had your car in and out of the shop so many times and you have been talking with the techs, I really think you need to take the CAI back in there, along with the pictures you showed us, and tell them to put it back on for you. Not noticing it the first few times is one thing, but when they had the whole CAI off the car they could have looked in the frickin' tube.

There is no documentation saying the CAI can't be used in cold weather and that was a total lie by them because they couldn't actually fix a problem. They should be set right.

Either way, if you decide to do the install yourself, with two or three people you will have a good time and it will go pretty quick. I did mine myself and while it took me a long time, that was only because I didn't want to jack the car up and take the front wheels off. (won't be that stuborn again)

Good luck!

DarkBrew

Hey Footman!
I'm using one of your pictures as my desktop background!

Footman

iTrader: (2)

That's my facebook profile pic too! I'll send you the full size one if you like.

Gecko69

so things are fixed footman???? I just installed a few things on my car and today on the way to work started getting a flashing cel???? think it has to do with the ap pulley I just installed......I will reset the ecu tonight and see how it goes??there was no loss in power or stuttering so I am not too concerned. but glad to hear things are going better for you in the cel department, or at least you are working towards the answers.

Footman

iTrader: (2)

Gecko69.. things appear to be fixed. I drove around this whole week, and even endured the snowstorm on wednesday. The stock intake works perfeclty fine. On the snowstorm day, within 2 hours, I got the P0420 CEL, cleared it and got it again. So I cleared it again, thinking maybe it's just doing stupid **** cause my car was practically eating snow in the front, and I was sliding everywhere (fun-wise). Since the snowstorm on Wednesday, I haven't had the CEL come back again.

I disassembled and re-assembled the CAI PROPERLY putting the screens. I will wait till spring time.. buy the RB screens, and then go to RPM Motorsports, to have them install both at the same time with the bumper off, and test my theory on whether those screens were ******* up all this time.

I am still totally shocked that they were not installed right, and the technicians who had over 48 hours with my car DID NOT DISCOVER THAT. It has significantly made me lose faith in dealer technicians.

Gecko69

well, mazda techs are pssing me off ....when I went to the dealer for a scheduled service, I talked to them about installing the AP pulley and they were ADAMENT that I would have to remove the bolt in the center of the drive belt pulley...that bolt is attatched to the engine internals and would have f%^cked everything up had I removed it.....it baffles me how ridiculous they are here in kingston.....just for fun I asked how long it would take them to install the pulley and they quoted me 3 hours......I laughed and told them they are full of **** and that I could do it in 15 minutes and I did....bastards!!!!!. I am putting the rb screens on now and hopefully that will help, but the car eats alot of snow when lowered with heavy snow.......but I hope things stay ok for you.

Footman

iTrader: (2)

WHen I get my Agency Pulleys, will you hepl me install them? 15 minutes? it's that easy?

Gecko69

I would help you or at least give you very detailed instructions on how to do it.......just let me know. Will have to make sure I am off work.There is actually a really good DIY on it ....but I would help if you had any questions. just let me know. The hardest part is putting the new screws in the ap pulley as its a tight area and its tricky. took me 15 minutes to do.......it really is pretty easy.

Gecko69

https://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php?...9=&postcount=34

here is the DIY.....was explained well, but if you have any questions. let me know.

Footman

iTrader: (2)

I vow to get to the bottom of this. yes I am RELENTLESS like that, but that's just me

Tonight in Toronto, the temperatures were -16 C, with 50kph wind gusts, so with the windchill factor, feels like -28 C. Remember I had stock-intake installed right? No stutterings from 6000 - 9000rpm, just smoothness...

I pulled out my Scangauge II, and it reads Intake Air Temperature: -11 C.

Conclusion: what the techs were telling me were a crock of ****/lies with the CAI feeding "too cold" air. As I had sputtering when the IAT's were only -5 C.

New possibilities: Air turbulences causing mis-readings of MAF, hence those damn screens! is all I could think of now that is untested.

Footman

iTrader: (2)

P0420 CEL code thrown 4 times in the past week. Cat efficiency below threshold. I bet the CAT eventually got damaged over time from all those misfires... will leave with dealer and see.

Neo

Why don't you just remove the cat and run it like every other rotary owner runs it!

Footman

iTrader: (2)

First I must say Scangauge II FTW!!! It has helped me tremendously.

After having 3 CEL's all resetted by me and coming up as P0420; the forth one came and I took it to the dealer. I told them the code, and enthusiastically explained to them what I think is the problem. I let them run it through their own paperwork and procedure and the end result is, I'm getting a new CAT just as I had suspected and diagnosed.

I sent them my pics of the improperly installed MS CAI, and then physically brought the CAI tube and showed them the way it SHOULD have been installed. They are going to issue an internal tech bulletin to the rest of the dealers now to "watchout" for this mistake. I've created a fully documented case with this issue.

This is my new theory on everything from day 1:
1) MS CAI screens incorrectly installed, but the screens were still some distance away from the MAF sensor. Meanwhile, engine was broken-in, thus no high RPM's were in use.
2) Over course of usage, vibrations and wind slowly back the two screens closer and closer to the MAF sensor. Engine fully broken in, begin usage of high-RPMs.
3) At the height of the problem, the two screens were 1" away from the MAF sensor, stacked together, at a 60 degree angle to the MAF.
4) High RPM's usage results in increase sensitivity of air flow across MAF. With the screens now causing buffetting of the air and resulting in incorrect readings. Sputtering above 5000 rpm starts occuring at idle, under load, under all temperature ranges.
5) Incorrect readings cause fuel injectors to dump massive amounts of fuel into the engine causing various CELs citing "system running too rich". Incorrect fuel/air ratio causing misfires.
6) Plugs begin to foul from misfires, plugs replaced.
7) Misfires cause unburnt fuel to be ejected into the exhaust.
8) Excessive unburnt fuel cumulates in the CAT. Front O2 and Rear O2 sensors detect low effiency. CAT dies.

In summary: Incorrectly installed screens --> Incorrect MAF readings --> Running rich --> Misfires --> Plugs fouling --> Unburnt fuel in exhaust --> Raw fuel destroys CAT.


Who could have known two tiny screens could cause so much damage? Will update more as the CAT is being ordered by the dealer, and I'll have it installed next week.

The MS CAI issue has still yet to be verified, I'll wait till spring to re-install the CAI.

BTW, fuel economy has gone up significantly with the stock intake!

Footman

iTrader: (2)

Okay, the CAT has been changed today Feb 29.

Will monitor for anymore P0420 CEL's.

No more issues with high revs to report =)

If all goes well, I can finally put this issue to rest. Wait for spring, re-install MS CAI properly =)

prospectjtaz

iTrader: (1)

I think I'm gonna be getting mine replaced too soon. Had my CEL cheched out by WCS last time, and got the same code as you Footman. He cleared it, a week later got a CEL again, went away 2 days after, got a CEL two days ago, went away this afternoon. Came back on again tonight.

qtwre

iTrader: (1)

I'm so jealous. I want a CEL! I have a dyno graph that shows my cat is restricting flow above 7000rpm but no CEL so the dealership won't help me. Either my sensor is more tolerant or you guys have some super serious screwed up cats.

prospectjtaz

iTrader: (1)

LoL. On a side note, I just scored a full tank of 91 for the price of 87. Gotta love when gas stations run out of regular gas. But it makes you wonder why they don't offer both 89 and 91, instead of only 91. Kinda makes you think 89 and 91 are the same. I don't know how Esso runs things. This maybe a noob question. But I know that RX-8 J spec wise have 250, well stated that they 250 hp, and we hae 238 cause of out emissions regulations. Would a straight pipe and a retune let me achieve the supposed "250 hp?"

prospectjtaz

iTrader: (1)

nvm, i got my silly question answered using the magic of SEARCH.

qtwre

iTrader: (1)

Just a tune should do it. Our emissions warranty lasts 10 years so they had to play it safe with our tune to keep the cat alive that long.

For your gas station conspiracy, I was thinking it's more likely that 87 and 89 are the same but I think people just use up the 87 first then use the 89.