ChristInBen

Hi guys,

I know driving on snow (or rather deeper snow) where you have to play with the clutch after turning off DSC to get the car moving and onto a solid road patch must produce wear on the clutch....but how extensive is the wear? Btw, I'm running on Pirelly P240 Snowsport winter tires.

The reason is - over the past few winter storm, I had to use this technique (as described below) to get my 8 out of the deeper snow....last straw was at the Mississauga Mazda dealership, where they hadn't plowed the driveway cuz they were short staffed yesterday, well I had to practically "drift" my car onto the road off the dealership lot, so here's my technique:

1) Turn off TSC/DSC.
2) Let clutch out slightly (to where the "sweet spot" is) where it begins to grab.
3) Simultaneously (while performing step #2), keep "blipping" or pressing the accelerator causing the rear wheels to spin and move you through the snow till the tires grab on a dry piece of road.
4) After these steps have been performed, I sometimes see green liquid stains on the snow where my car was - but no leaks when the dealer checked it at my 48K service? Do you guys know what that green liquid is?

Now, I did this for a max of 10 seconds per try for a total of about 4 tries (so max. of about 30 seconds of this technique per time) to get my car out and I've only done this a few times when the snow was too deep. Once however, I managed to get a push so that was okay.

So, here are my questions:

1) Are our 8 clutches strong, as in Mazda knew the climate conditions up here and compensated a stronger clutch for our weather conditions?
2) How much wear do you think this technique causes?
3) Anybody have any better techniques to get through deep snow?
4) Anybody have any good tips/techniques for driving your 8 in winter conditions such as we're having now?

I also called my dealership and spoke to the assistant service manager, explained him my technique and he said it would cause wear, and his advice was don't drive on the snow! Nice guy, but it is my daily driver!

Anyway, I appreciate any help you guys could give.

Thanks and God Bless you guys!

Ben.

Gecko69

I am not sure what the green liquid is???? are you sure it's not washer fluid running down from cleaning the windsheild in the am......only reason I say this is because my wife had mentioned seeing a yellowish fluid in th snow after I drove out of deep snow........I dont think you have tooo much to worry about......i think the only fluid that could even be that colour is the coolant, and you would have other symptoms if you had a coolant leak.
So from what i understand of your technique......you constantly engage and disengage the clutch and when the clutch is engaged you add throttle. It would naturally cause wear over a long long long period of time. My suggestion is when you engage the clutch as you normally would when driving and you have the dsc off add the gas and get the tires spinning and start moving forward....I dont think you need to keep disengaging the clutch as that would basically be like having the dsc on where you would have throttle being taking away due to tire slippage just a different mechanism ie. you pressing the clutch to get the same effect.
Our clutch is actually pretty decent......I just replaced mine after 70000km with a lot of spirited driving, the " weak " spot of the transmission is the sychros and shift forks. There is no difference between our clutch and say an rx8 that was delivered to florida. What you are doing will cause wear over a long period of time, but if you engage the clutch normally and the tires are spinning there isn't a lot of force on the clutch to keep things moving the the wear is minimal i would assume......where you get the most wear is from " dumping " your clutch. ie. reving the enginge and engaging the clutch while the engine is at a high rpm.

ChristInBen

Thanks for you help dude! From what you said, my clutch isn't taking that much heat from the winter driving techniques. So you replaced your clutch at 70K kms? I have an '05 and I'm at approx. 58K kms. God-willing my clutch will go for a lot more. How much was it including parts/labour/tax to replace your clutch? I assume you did it at Mazda?

Gecko69

I had mazda replace the clutch...but I bought my actual clutch kit from racing beat.........the clutch itself was 350 with shipping and it was about 650 for labour to install it and pay for new synthetic clutch fluid........I went to bay mazda in belleville......excellent guys.....they finished it in a day.

AmKorp

650+350? or was it 650 inclusive of the parts? $1000 seems extremely high!

ChristInBen

How much is it for just the OEM clutch replacement....parts and labour? And how often do you guys do it?

spd frk

I wouldn't worry about doing that Ben. The clutch is designed to take abuse from people who don't really know how to drive a manual. They will wear mostly from poor shifting technique, and poor rev matching. I drive very aggressively, but can also double clutch, and heel and toe no problem. My clutch still grabs strong no matter what I am up to (even after a day of lapping), and I have 110,000km. The clutch is hydraulic so you would see a brown fluid if it was leaking I believe.

qtwre

iTrader: (1)

Ben, do you find your snow technique works? Instead of holding the clutch at the the "sweet spot" and modulating the throttle, I would try holding the throttle steady (at something low) and modulating the clutch. Neither are particularly good for the clutch but if you keep the RPMs as low as possible you'll minimize wear as you slip the clutch.

Personally I do neither. If I'm in deep snow I just get the wheels spinning and push out. Gotta use that LSD! If that doesn't work, take a run at it. Saves clutch.

Gecko69

If you go to mazda and get a quote from them, it will be in the range of 1200 - 1400 with labour and parts. The cost for the replacement clutch lit from mazda ( oem ) is about 700 dollars......then tack on labour and fluids and such......I agree that its very expensive.....but if you want to retain some form of warranty you need to have a mazda dealer do this. My cluch kit was litterally 350 less than the oem mazda clutch kit, labour costs were the same.

ChristInBen

Hmm....that's a cool technique, I never thought of that....so do you think modulating the clutch instead of blipping the throttle would grip better? Also, you leave the LSD on? I find that it restricts me into the same patch of snow or ice and I never go anywhere. And yes, I would turn off DSC/TSC and get someone to push, but I'm talking about a situation where I don't have anyone to help me by giving the car a push.

ChristInBen

Where did you get your clutch installed and what's a good "after market clutch" that works well with our cars if we don't want to shell out the $$ for an OEM clutch (This is just for my knowledge if I had to change the clutch)? I would prolly buy the clutch elsewhere and go to Mazda for the labour unfortunately to keep my warranty going. God-willing I don't have to change my clutch for a while!

Mobile

Bottom line is you are adding marked extra wear and tear to you're clutch with your technique. If you're just doing it once and a while, then I wouldn't worry about it too much. If this is happening all the time, I would recommend taking conditions more into account before you drive your 8; or at least keeping salt in your trunk to give you the advantage when trying to get out of snowy situations.

It all comes down to how much abuse you're willing to dole out on your clutch. I wouldn't do what you're doing, it would make me cringe too much. Everyone has different tolerance levels for their cars; but you should understand that your technique is relatively hard on the clutch so you know where on the scale you sit.

ChristInBen

Thanks for your input dude, I dont' do it on a regular basis cuz it makes me more than cringe and I HATE doing it, but I have no other choice when stuck because of our brutal weather conditions. I have no reason to do this on a regular basis like I said, just whenever I get stuck so all winter, I've used this technique maybe twice (in which case God-willingly my clutch isn't affected that much), cuz I've only been stuck twice....but from now on, if I know it's going to be a snow storm, I'm getting a ride or taking a cab rather than risk my 8 through the snow.

qtwre

iTrader: (1)

I don't think either technique is better than the other for grip. They both do the same thing, just through different means. LSD means Limited Slip Differential. It's what makes both rear wheels spin as opposed to an Open Differential on most cars which just has one wheel spin. It isn't electronic and you can't turn it off.

I got a little stuck once this winter but I got out with some rocking back and forth. If you feel that you aren't digging yourself a hole, you should just push through without any fancy clutch work.

Mobile

Another option if your stuck is too drop your air pressure's quite a bit to flatten the tire out, giving you more grip. You can only really do this if you carry around one of those portable air compressors.

Gecko69

It depends on what you are doing with your car and how modified it is I suppose. I went with the exedy stage 1 organic clutch kit as it has an increased clamp load ( ability to hold the clutch from slipping ) over the oem unit and I do some track events so I wanted something that would last a little longer and its a little more durable. Our oem clutch is made by exedy, so I believe what I have now is a step above that. So It also depends on the price you want to pay. I didn't want to spend more than 450 and I also didn't want the clutch pedal pressure to increase that much as I do a lot of stop and go driving. Act, exedy, clutchmasters, are just a few..........each brand has different levels of clutch from mild to extreme......just have to do some reaserch and see whats best for you......most of the websites have a good description of what each level of clutch would be ideal for. act and exedy both have kits that start around 330 if you find the right vendor.

clutch was installed at bay mazda in belleville

ChristInBen

LOL, dude, I meant DSC/TSC, I dunno how LSD came out of that - maybe I wasn't paying attention to my typing but I apologize! Yah, that would be funny if you could turn LSD on and off! haha What are your techniques to rock the car back and forth? And no I don't meant pushing it physically with other people! haha

qtwre

iTrader: (1)

It involves shifting to reverse, applying gas, then shifting to 1st and applying gas. Too complicated to explain here. :P

ChristInBen

Oh okay yeah I've done that too, but all this is just as strenuous on the clutch as much as the technique I've mentioned before right?

Mobile

Not nearly because you are not continuously slipping the clutch while putting rpm through it. The friction is what causes the damage.