Extreme Cold this week (Ontario)
01-15-2009, 10:43 AM
#51
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YOUr battery is reading 9.6V????? Holy **** it's beyond dead!
If your battery is dead, I don't think your car would move anymore Thumper. The ECU would have no juice, and thus no brains to control the engine timings...
Not to mention, the electric assist steering is gone too
If your battery is dead, I don't think your car would move anymore Thumper. The ECU would have no juice, and thus no brains to control the engine timings...
Not to mention, the electric assist steering is gone too
But I'm sure it's down there somewhere. I'm either getting a battery from Al or the Optima...haven't decided yet. Hope to hell that fixes it.
01-15-2009, 10:48 AM
#52
Do step 3 if you have your car started and you'll know if your alternator is working or not. It's output should be greater than 13.8V
I'm not sure if it is a smart alternator or just a regular fixed voltage alternator. For cold weather charging, the alternator should output a HIGHER voltage than in the summer time.
You should also consider investing in a multimeter. Canadian Tire always has been on sale. You do not need a super quality one. Something < $50 is more than enough for use around the auto, or around the home to diagnose some wiring issues or appliances.
I'm not sure if it is a smart alternator or just a regular fixed voltage alternator. For cold weather charging, the alternator should output a HIGHER voltage than in the summer time.
You should also consider investing in a multimeter. Canadian Tire always has been on sale. You do not need a super quality one. Something < $50 is more than enough for use around the auto, or around the home to diagnose some wiring issues or appliances.
01-15-2009, 02:37 PM
#53
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Cool thx footman!
Well got the battery tested sure enough, dead battery. After bunch of running around and deciding, got the Optima RED. For our car it's number 35 btw. Put it in, and whaammoooohh...she started up right away. No crazy revin, throttle response back etc. Not sure if this was due to being bit warmer out and having a portable heater on it or the battery, but don't care...she's golden once again huurrraayy!!
BTW - I just gained 10+hp with my Optima battery :-p
Well got the battery tested sure enough, dead battery. After bunch of running around and deciding, got the Optima RED. For our car it's number 35 btw. Put it in, and whaammoooohh...she started up right away. No crazy revin, throttle response back etc. Not sure if this was due to being bit warmer out and having a portable heater on it or the battery, but don't care...she's golden once again huurrraayy!!
BTW - I just gained 10+hp with my Optima battery :-p
01-15-2009, 03:12 PM
#56
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So after hunting down the car and opening the door manually, I have this hope the car has magically healed itself. Turn the key and it starts, no problem.
At first I called bullshit but gave Mazda a call anyhow, booked an appointment and drove it to the dealer. It's going to have yet another sleepover thats going to cost yet another couple hundred dollars no doubt.
At first I called bullshit but gave Mazda a call anyhow, booked an appointment and drove it to the dealer. It's going to have yet another sleepover thats going to cost yet another couple hundred dollars no doubt.
01-15-2009, 03:18 PM
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Sorry to double post but just got a call from the dealership, they believe it's the alternator.
$770.
It is really that much? Anyone know a place that rebuilds them or where I could steal one from somewhere?
$770.
It is really that much? Anyone know a place that rebuilds them or where I could steal one from somewhere?
01-15-2009, 04:11 PM
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So after hunting down the car and opening the door manually, I have this hope the car has magically healed itself. Turn the key and it starts, no problem.
At first I called bullshit but gave Mazda a call anyhow, booked an appointment and drove it to the dealer. It's going to have yet another sleepover thats going to cost yet another couple hundred dollars no doubt.
At first I called bullshit but gave Mazda a call anyhow, booked an appointment and drove it to the dealer. It's going to have yet another sleepover thats going to cost yet another couple hundred dollars no doubt.
I saw a place online today $130us for an alternator. Not sure about install tho..research may man!
01-15-2009, 04:14 PM
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01-15-2009, 05:13 PM
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saguine and thumper, sorry about your luck. and the car starting after a long sit isnt BS. when there is load on a battery and then that load is released, it takes time for a battery to "spring" back to a normal voltage. for example, when load testing a battery if you hold the load on it for 15 seconds the voltage of a perfectly new and fully charged battery will drop alot (the carbon pile on an AVR machine is a very significant load). every battery is differnt, but lets say the voltage drops as low as 10 volts even with the load in. then when you release it, it doesnt jump right back to 12.6V, it will usually jump back up to about 11.8 or 12 V even, then slowly creep up to its full voltage again. a battery that is pooched will take a very long time to get back to a stable voltage when left without a load on it. im not saying a discharged battery will recharge itself....its hard to explain really. anyways, a few years back i was driving a suzuki swift GTi. the alternator quit on me and i was too involved with what i was doing to notice the signs. i drove around most of the day on the battery only until it finally gave up the ghost on highway 6 south right on the bridge over the 401. instantly i recalled how my stereo was acting wonky and my wipers were working very slowly so i peiced together the alternator was shot. anyways, i let the car sit for 5 mins at the side of the road. than me and my passenger pump started the car (the starter takes alot of juice and we were a ways from home still). she fired up and i gave her hell to get home. about halfway there. she quit again. i sat at the side of the road for 10 mins this time as i was a back road without traffic. bumped it again and got 2 country driveways from the house where my parts car was with a fresh alternator and a new battery. so i walked got the battery and then swapped the alternators out in the yard in the middle of a rain storm. how i miss my suzuki. lol. also, if the battery is that dead and you let it sit outside in this temp, that battery will let you down even after you get a new alternator to replace it. its a ticking time bomb. i stongly suggest you do both battery and alternator.
also, about footmans advice on checking the battery, mostly true. however, ive been caught out on this before. a bad battery can look like a bad alternator if all you are doing is checking the voltage with it off and then with it running. heres how. a modern alternators output is determined by the load on the battery. basically, the alternator does everything it can to keep the battery fully charged all the time. the accesories and ECU and everything get their power from the battery in a manor of speaking. so in a way the battery regulates the alternator. now there is a regulator in the alternator as well, but for the most part, the battery asks and it receives. so if you get the car running and check the voltage, it says soemthing like 13V, you go "hey wait! it should be between 13.8-14.4V, alternator is toast!" you could be wrong and it could cost you a pile of bills and when you start the car after you put the new alternator on, it still shows 13V. the only way to properly determine if its the battery or the alternator is with an AVR. beleive me, i myself was caught on this once on a customers car a few years ago and i felt aweful. learned my lesson and i try to pass it on whenever i can.
also, if your battery goes dead in the winter for whatever reason. and i mean for whatever reason, you left the lights on, it flooded and you cranked until it killed the battery, the alt quit and the battery was drained, whatever. it is now a ticking time bomb. a fully discharged battery is full of water (which freezes in our canadian winter temps), not sulfuric acid(which does not freeze in our canadian winter temps). there are lead plates inside the battery submerged in this solution (be it sulfuric acid or water) and when that solution becomes a solid brick inside the case, it cracks and splits these plates (not to mention the case) and it is ready to let you down any day after that. optimas are slightly tougher in this situation as the six pack design is actually six rolls of fiberglass soaked in the sulfuric acid/water so they are less likely to cause as much damage to the lead inside the battery when jostled or frozen.
just my experience there guys, hope some of it can help.
Greg
also, about footmans advice on checking the battery, mostly true. however, ive been caught out on this before. a bad battery can look like a bad alternator if all you are doing is checking the voltage with it off and then with it running. heres how. a modern alternators output is determined by the load on the battery. basically, the alternator does everything it can to keep the battery fully charged all the time. the accesories and ECU and everything get their power from the battery in a manor of speaking. so in a way the battery regulates the alternator. now there is a regulator in the alternator as well, but for the most part, the battery asks and it receives. so if you get the car running and check the voltage, it says soemthing like 13V, you go "hey wait! it should be between 13.8-14.4V, alternator is toast!" you could be wrong and it could cost you a pile of bills and when you start the car after you put the new alternator on, it still shows 13V. the only way to properly determine if its the battery or the alternator is with an AVR. beleive me, i myself was caught on this once on a customers car a few years ago and i felt aweful. learned my lesson and i try to pass it on whenever i can.
also, if your battery goes dead in the winter for whatever reason. and i mean for whatever reason, you left the lights on, it flooded and you cranked until it killed the battery, the alt quit and the battery was drained, whatever. it is now a ticking time bomb. a fully discharged battery is full of water (which freezes in our canadian winter temps), not sulfuric acid(which does not freeze in our canadian winter temps). there are lead plates inside the battery submerged in this solution (be it sulfuric acid or water) and when that solution becomes a solid brick inside the case, it cracks and splits these plates (not to mention the case) and it is ready to let you down any day after that. optimas are slightly tougher in this situation as the six pack design is actually six rolls of fiberglass soaked in the sulfuric acid/water so they are less likely to cause as much damage to the lead inside the battery when jostled or frozen.
just my experience there guys, hope some of it can help.
Greg
01-16-2009, 05:55 AM
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01-16-2009, 09:46 AM
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01-16-2009, 10:27 AM
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I am thinking about the battery upgrade.
However, the ticking going away, and the lack of rev flucation, etc isn't due to the battery. It is due to you having a warmer car. My car's battery is new (as of September) and I get the 3000+ RPM 10 second rev at the start when it is below -22. It also does the rev bouncing on start up in these lovely temperatures. It does go away and I due have pick up (that part was due to your battery for sure)
It will be interesting to see how how your car starts tomorrow morning since it is supposed to still be ball shrivelling cold out.
However, the ticking going away, and the lack of rev flucation, etc isn't due to the battery. It is due to you having a warmer car. My car's battery is new (as of September) and I get the 3000+ RPM 10 second rev at the start when it is below -22. It also does the rev bouncing on start up in these lovely temperatures. It does go away and I due have pick up (that part was due to your battery for sure)
It will be interesting to see how how your car starts tomorrow morning since it is supposed to still be ball shrivelling cold out.
01-16-2009, 10:41 AM
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01-16-2009, 03:01 PM
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Touche touche!! haha
01-16-2009, 10:38 PM
#74
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and another one bites the dust....
... parked my car downtown today to go to a coworker's going away (outside). Anyways.. when i go to leave I start the car... everything's fine... then after about two minutes of idle the car starts to idle oddly and I hear a slight squealing noise.. then.. the check engine light starts flashing and it starts idling very roughly. At this point I check the manual and it gives the standard bs about driving it slowly to the nearest dealership.. so... not wanting the thing to strand me out in the middle of nowhere (it really was a great day to forget my cell).. i decided to let the car warm up a bit more before turning it off so it wouldn't flood... in any case.. I go to do the 3k shutdown and when I tapped the gas the engine started vibrating like a ****... so I let off the gas... and then it threatened to stall... just gave it a lil tap of gas and it went back to idling at 1.5k.......... anyways.. gonna go back tomorrow morning to see if I have any better luck.
...... damnit.
... parked my car downtown today to go to a coworker's going away (outside). Anyways.. when i go to leave I start the car... everything's fine... then after about two minutes of idle the car starts to idle oddly and I hear a slight squealing noise.. then.. the check engine light starts flashing and it starts idling very roughly. At this point I check the manual and it gives the standard bs about driving it slowly to the nearest dealership.. so... not wanting the thing to strand me out in the middle of nowhere (it really was a great day to forget my cell).. i decided to let the car warm up a bit more before turning it off so it wouldn't flood... in any case.. I go to do the 3k shutdown and when I tapped the gas the engine started vibrating like a ****... so I let off the gas... and then it threatened to stall... just gave it a lil tap of gas and it went back to idling at 1.5k.......... anyways.. gonna go back tomorrow morning to see if I have any better luck.
...... damnit.
01-16-2009, 11:16 PM
#75
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So whatup with all the erratic behavior of rx8 in winter...is it just the battery or some ecu issue or the nature of the rotary engine??
Mine started up without any problem at all...since its a 07...or in 3 years I will see the same thing happen to me??? doh
Mine started up without any problem at all...since its a 07...or in 3 years I will see the same thing happen to me??? doh