HORSE....nope PONYPOWER????
08-05-2003, 05:21 PM
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HORSE....nope PONYPOWER????
kay there has been so much talk about the lack of the advertisied 250HP in the RX-8 that i'm seriously thinking of retracting my deposit from a Calgary dealership. Its been reported from others that the GT RX-8 is producing around 170+ WHP............now thats a pretty big drop!!!!!
http://www.rx8forum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7976
http://forums.beyond.ca/showthread.p...threadid=20930
http://www.rx8forum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7976
http://forums.beyond.ca/showthread.p...threadid=20930
08-05-2003, 06:09 PM
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oy... why does everyone suddenly think that this is irreparable?? the motor is more than capable of producing at least the factory bhp numbers. if all you're concerned about is performance, there's almost nothing better to modify than the wankel. sheesh.
08-05-2003, 06:59 PM
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While I wouldn't have titled the thread in such a sassy manner, I have to say my RX-8 shopping has come to a screeching halt until this get sorted out. Don't let love make you blind wakeech, this is a serious issue and it can happen because it's happened before on other models as I'm sure you know.
I think some of the HP gap can be made up from an ECU mileage switch, but IMO, 30hp would be rather dramatic/optimistic. This whole lack of HP issue is even more concerning given the poor mileage these motors are generating.
Yes, HP matters, especially because it's a relatively torque-less motor, and it is needed to take advantage of the exceptional chassis. $50K is a lot of after-tax coin to spend on car which would be hard pressed to beat a Mazda6 in any acceleration type of scenario. I'm sure the Renesis could be coaxed to cough up more power, but why should we have to spend additional coin to do so?
I think some of the HP gap can be made up from an ECU mileage switch, but IMO, 30hp would be rather dramatic/optimistic. This whole lack of HP issue is even more concerning given the poor mileage these motors are generating.
Yes, HP matters, especially because it's a relatively torque-less motor, and it is needed to take advantage of the exceptional chassis. $50K is a lot of after-tax coin to spend on car which would be hard pressed to beat a Mazda6 in any acceleration type of scenario. I'm sure the Renesis could be coaxed to cough up more power, but why should we have to spend additional coin to do so?
08-05-2003, 07:16 PM
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Originally posted by FritzMan
While I wouldn't have titled the thread in such a sassy manner, I have to say my RX-8 shopping has come to a screeching halt until this get sorted out.
While I wouldn't have titled the thread in such a sassy manner, I have to say my RX-8 shopping has come to a screeching halt until this get sorted out.
the Miata has already gone through this, and the owners were given the option of it being bought back by Mazda or keeping the car and getting service on it for a longer period of time. So YES this is a big issue!!!!!!
08-05-2003, 07:27 PM
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I agree with Fritz, "if this is true", then it is a serious problem that should not be "waved off" as a non-issue.
On that note we also need to keep a balanced view and not overly defend or attack on this issue. I want more facts and am curious what the outcome will be.
My Pro comment:
I own the car and I like it.
My Con comment:
If the rumor is true, I don't like being mislead, end of story. Mazda screwed up and they will need to do something about it.
On that note we also need to keep a balanced view and not overly defend or attack on this issue. I want more facts and am curious what the outcome will be.
My Pro comment:
I own the car and I like it.
My Con comment:
If the rumor is true, I don't like being mislead, end of story. Mazda screwed up and they will need to do something about it.
08-05-2003, 07:49 PM
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I'm not yet convinced that Mazda has screwed up - at this point, there are questions to be answered as a result of the dyno tests done on private cars, but that's all. It's WAY tooo premature to be talking about ripoffs, conspiracies, lies, buybacks, compensation, etc.
FWIW, the car is pretty damn quick as it is! I don't care what a dyno says - I'm satisfied with it. If it develops an extra 15 ft lbs of torque at 8500 rpm (which is all we're talking about, really, as that is equal to 25 hp at 8500) as the engine runs in or if Mazda has to reflash the ECU then great.
Regards,
Gordon
FWIW, the car is pretty damn quick as it is! I don't care what a dyno says - I'm satisfied with it. If it develops an extra 15 ft lbs of torque at 8500 rpm (which is all we're talking about, really, as that is equal to 25 hp at 8500) as the engine runs in or if Mazda has to reflash the ECU then great.
Regards,
Gordon
08-05-2003, 08:07 PM
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I'll throw my two bits in here after just getting home from the dealership where I test drove my RX-8 I'm likely picking up tomorrow.
Here's some food for thought on the Horsepower issue:
The car friggin HAULS ***. In no way shape or form can it be considered anything less.
I drove a BMW 330Ci prior to this car, so I know fast vehicles...and the RX-8 will NOT leave you wanting more from a performance perspective.
My 330 had 225 horses, and the power the RX-8 exhibits would easily shave 1 second off of the 0-60 time I used to get. Using this rationale, the spec'd 0-60 in 5.9 seconds holds perfectly true.
I'll reinforce my message: I'm a car guy, who LOVES power and speed...and this car has LOTS to offer in this department.
Here's some food for thought on the Horsepower issue:
The car friggin HAULS ***. In no way shape or form can it be considered anything less.
I drove a BMW 330Ci prior to this car, so I know fast vehicles...and the RX-8 will NOT leave you wanting more from a performance perspective.
My 330 had 225 horses, and the power the RX-8 exhibits would easily shave 1 second off of the 0-60 time I used to get. Using this rationale, the spec'd 0-60 in 5.9 seconds holds perfectly true.
I'll reinforce my message: I'm a car guy, who LOVES power and speed...and this car has LOTS to offer in this department.
08-05-2003, 08:10 PM
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http://www.rx8forum.com/showthread.p...ighlight=miata
All I have to say is that, when my RX-8 finally comes in, i will need a solid understanding of whats going on with the real HP of the RX-8.
Because when I spend almost $50000 on a car, I expect to get the 247/250HP stated on the websites, brochures etc. For me personally...........for others to say that the car is great, its fast enough, its not a big deal ETC ETC, well thats great!!! Everyone has a right to give their say.
But really, realistically speaking, think again, for those that have bought, and haven't bought an RX-8, would you pay close to $50000 for a car that has only 170-180HP at the wheels???? I don't think so!!!
"THATS TO SAY IF THESE RUMOURS OR STORIES ARE TRUE"
I really hope that everything is fine, but if not, Mazda has to be able to give the same type of offer they gave to the Miata buyers a couple of years ago for saying they had 155HP when really it was much lower than that.
All I have to say is that, when my RX-8 finally comes in, i will need a solid understanding of whats going on with the real HP of the RX-8.
Because when I spend almost $50000 on a car, I expect to get the 247/250HP stated on the websites, brochures etc. For me personally...........for others to say that the car is great, its fast enough, its not a big deal ETC ETC, well thats great!!! Everyone has a right to give their say.
But really, realistically speaking, think again, for those that have bought, and haven't bought an RX-8, would you pay close to $50000 for a car that has only 170-180HP at the wheels???? I don't think so!!!
"THATS TO SAY IF THESE RUMOURS OR STORIES ARE TRUE"
I really hope that everything is fine, but if not, Mazda has to be able to give the same type of offer they gave to the Miata buyers a couple of years ago for saying they had 155HP when really it was much lower than that.
08-05-2003, 08:28 PM
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silenttype, I'll start off by saying that I respect your opinion.
BUT
I personally (and think some others may agree) couldn't give a rat about the numbers so long as the car is a performer relative to the metric. What I mean is, horsepower measures the "pulling power" of the engine...which people usually directly translate to how fast it gets up and goes.
Having actually tried it out, I am satisfied that it will be able to eat 99% of the cars on the road off the line. In this context...$50K is worth it.
BUT
Many people aren't obsessed with speed, and spend far more than $50K for cars with less than 250 hp. My Dad, for example, prefers luxury and fuel economy...so he spent $75K on an E320 Benz. It only has 221hp...the similarly priced ML320 only outputs 217.
Go even further, and look at it from a reverse angle...you can go out and spend under $35K CDN on a high end Mustang or Trans-Am and get 300+ horsepower.
All I'm saying is, the RX-8 is special and worth the $50K not because of its horsepower rating, but because it is a unique, finely crafted work of art on wheels...that also happens to blow the doors off most cars in a race!
BUT
I personally (and think some others may agree) couldn't give a rat about the numbers so long as the car is a performer relative to the metric. What I mean is, horsepower measures the "pulling power" of the engine...which people usually directly translate to how fast it gets up and goes.
Having actually tried it out, I am satisfied that it will be able to eat 99% of the cars on the road off the line. In this context...$50K is worth it.
BUT
Many people aren't obsessed with speed, and spend far more than $50K for cars with less than 250 hp. My Dad, for example, prefers luxury and fuel economy...so he spent $75K on an E320 Benz. It only has 221hp...the similarly priced ML320 only outputs 217.
Go even further, and look at it from a reverse angle...you can go out and spend under $35K CDN on a high end Mustang or Trans-Am and get 300+ horsepower.
All I'm saying is, the RX-8 is special and worth the $50K not because of its horsepower rating, but because it is a unique, finely crafted work of art on wheels...that also happens to blow the doors off most cars in a race!
08-05-2003, 08:47 PM
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yes, i understand you fully and i agree with everything you said.
But with everything you said and with all that info you gave with other vehicles and scenerios, those reasons and explainations were based on FACT.
This all about paying for what was originally told,said,printed and hyped about the RX-8!!!
To relate to you even better, if the RX-8 was promoted with 180HP on paper, on the websites ETC, I would buy it because I love the car!!! Like you, I also can care less about all the other reasons you have stated before.
Hey I have a deposit on one, do you think I want these speculations to be true???? Ofcourse not!!!!
I really want to get the car, thats why i've waited forever just like everyone else.
All I want to see as well as others are FACTS, not dynotests that show otherwise.
But with everything you said and with all that info you gave with other vehicles and scenerios, those reasons and explainations were based on FACT.
This all about paying for what was originally told,said,printed and hyped about the RX-8!!!
To relate to you even better, if the RX-8 was promoted with 180HP on paper, on the websites ETC, I would buy it because I love the car!!! Like you, I also can care less about all the other reasons you have stated before.
Hey I have a deposit on one, do you think I want these speculations to be true???? Ofcourse not!!!!
I really want to get the car, thats why i've waited forever just like everyone else.
All I want to see as well as others are FACTS, not dynotests that show otherwise.
08-05-2003, 08:56 PM
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Cool...it does appear you are an RX-8 addict also...if you're nearby you can drive mine to see how you like it!
I personally don't think there is another car on the market that I would like to own for the money...and I think you'll agree when you take one for a spin.
I personally don't think there is another car on the market that I would like to own for the money...and I think you'll agree when you take one for a spin.
08-05-2003, 09:52 PM
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Originally posted by silenttype would you pay close to $50000 for a car that has only 170-180HP at the wheels???? I don't think so!!!
Your posts are written such that it seems you believe the few independent dyno tests and think that Mazda is deliberately lying or hiding something. I do not believe that - I don't necessarily believe that Mazda has ripped me off. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and the time to answer the questions that have been raised.
Why not drive your car when it comes in? Better yet, go drive one of the demos at Kramer. If you like the performance, you're set - buy your RX-8 when it arrives, and IF there is a problem, Mazda will correct it or offer compensation. If it turns out like the Miata, then if you bought before the issue was acknowledged you would be entitled to the compensation. If the power is indeed lower than advertised, and Mazda decides not to change the power but change the advertised rating, then only those buyers who paid before the different power level was acknowledged would get the compensation. If you buy after the power rating is revised, you get zip.
Regards,
Gordon
08-05-2003, 10:19 PM
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I too am very happy with the "ride" my 8 gives me. Hey this car is everything I dreamed about and I'm just going to see how Mazda deals with it. For me any extra HP is gravy on already great car
08-05-2003, 10:55 PM
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Originally posted by Gord96BRG
If you like the performance, you're set - buy your RX-8 when it arrives, and IF there is a problem, Mazda will correct it or offer compensation. If it turns out like the Miata, then if you bought before the issue was acknowledged you would be entitled to the compensation. If the power is indeed lower than advertised, and Mazda decides not to change the power but change the advertised rating, then only those buyers who paid before the different power level was acknowledged would get the compensation.
Regards,
Gordon
If you like the performance, you're set - buy your RX-8 when it arrives, and IF there is a problem, Mazda will correct it or offer compensation. If it turns out like the Miata, then if you bought before the issue was acknowledged you would be entitled to the compensation. If the power is indeed lower than advertised, and Mazda decides not to change the power but change the advertised rating, then only those buyers who paid before the different power level was acknowledged would get the compensation.
Regards,
Gordon
my love is not blind, and i'm not naiive enough to believe that everything IS ok.
obviously there is something we don't know about, but i'm just not certain there is something WRONG; if there is something seriously out of spec, it can be fixed. keep in mind that the 30 odd horsepower loss is something in the range of ~15lbft of torque, all after 7000 rpm or something. if you don't think that fuel ratios (which are pig rich) and ignition timing can't take 15lbft of torque out of your engine per turn, then you really don't know anything about tuning engines.
until there is significant evidence that there is something seriously, MECHANICALLY deficient in this engine, i have no reason to believe that the RENESIS won't reach 247hp.
08-05-2003, 11:25 PM
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I hope this is only an "ECU" flash screw up.. ie maybe the 247hp engines were mapped with the 210ps "low power" maps in Japan? It would definitely explain why this magazine got almost identical times for the 210 and 250ps version:
http://www.artex.co.jp/Pages/Car/RX-...03_6-26_03.jpg
What do you guys think about this article? Can someone confirm that both cars were run on the same day, track and weather conditions?
It would definitely explain why this magazine got almost identical times for the 210 and 250ps version: http://www.artex.co.jp/Pages/Car/RX-...03_6-26_03.jpg
What do you guys think about this article? Can someone confirm that both cars were run on the same day, track and weather conditions?
08-06-2003, 12:33 AM
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i dont know where everyone is getting a 30hp lose,in a day or too it will be 50 hp lose.2 of the 4 dynos have been 184 and 185. 207 hp was the high #,so if my math is correct in both tests is less than 25hp.lets not make it sound worse than it is.personaly i cant wait for a someone NOT IN CALIFORNIA that can do a test on a post 5000 mile car in a more reasonable temp and conditions.
08-06-2003, 12:35 AM
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I'm gonna have to disagree with this statement.
I went head to head with an S2000 (which has 240HP)
He took me off the start...... but i whooped his *** after 2 gear.
I mean .... this car is a S2000 Eater .
I went head to head with an S2000 (which has 240HP)
He took me off the start...... but i whooped his *** after 2 gear.
I mean .... this car is a S2000 Eater
.
08-06-2003, 11:03 AM
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Originally posted by Pete
I'm gonna have to disagree with this statement.
I went head to head with an S2000 (which has 240HP)
He took me off the start...... but i whooped his *** after 2 gear.
I mean .... this car is a S2000 Eater .
I'm gonna have to disagree with this statement.
I went head to head with an S2000 (which has 240HP)
He took me off the start...... but i whooped his *** after 2 gear.
I mean .... this car is a S2000 Eater
.
As far as I know, with the Power and Weight that the S2K got, the RX-8 should be no match for it until at very high speed.
Last edited by Smoker; 08-06-2003 at 11:05 AM.
08-06-2003, 11:41 AM
#19
Grand Chancellor
Yes there are many cars at 50k with less than 180whp. But those are not marketed as a high performance car. Is the rx-8 in that category or no? This is the question. I think it's fairly safe to assume that owners of rx-8 are performance minded otherwise a Mazda6 would more than satisfy every other non-performance oriented needs right?
and it is at this point that the hp loss becomes an issue. You can recount the times you beat this car or that car or how fast it feels. I don't know. I mean everyone has it's own driving back ground. Some rx8 owners are prolly first time owners! Yes it's possible these days. Or ppl who graduated from a Sunfire or Civic to an rx-8. Against those cars, sure 180whp will be fast.
I can only speak for myself, if my current car didn't dyno near it's rated hp/tq, I'd be mad. I bought my car with that hp in mind. If it was rated at a lower hp figure at least I know going into the purchase.
This hp issue happened with Ford as well. Remember the Mustang Cobra? Well after many complaints Ford finally rectified the problem and gave them free mod upgrades.
Question is, as an owner of this rx-8 will you just sit around in "denial" or act as a group?
having said that, this issue could very well be that the JDM rx8s were running at higher octane whereas here you have crappier gas which leads to lower hp figures. YMMV.
and it is at this point that the hp loss becomes an issue. You can recount the times you beat this car or that car or how fast it feels. I don't know. I mean everyone has it's own driving back ground. Some rx8 owners are prolly first time owners! Yes it's possible these days. Or ppl who graduated from a Sunfire or Civic to an rx-8. Against those cars, sure 180whp will be fast.
I can only speak for myself, if my current car didn't dyno near it's rated hp/tq, I'd be mad. I bought my car with that hp in mind. If it was rated at a lower hp figure at least I know going into the purchase.
This hp issue happened with Ford as well. Remember the Mustang Cobra? Well after many complaints Ford finally rectified the problem and gave them free mod upgrades.
Question is, as an owner of this rx-8 will you just sit around in "denial" or act as a group?
having said that, this issue could very well be that the JDM rx8s were running at higher octane whereas here you have crappier gas which leads to lower hp figures. YMMV.
08-06-2003, 12:25 PM
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Originally posted by Pete
I'm gonna have to disagree with this statement.
I went head to head with an S2000 (which has 240HP)
He took me off the start...... but i whooped his *** after 2 gear.
I mean .... this car is a S2000 Eater .
I'm gonna have to disagree with this statement.
I went head to head with an S2000 (which has 240HP)
He took me off the start...... but i whooped his *** after 2 gear.
I mean .... this car is a S2000 Eater
.
to you..
08-06-2003, 02:23 PM
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Originally posted by delhi
Yes there are many cars at 50k with less than 180whp. But those are not marketed as a high performance car. Is the rx-8 in that category or no? This is the question. I think it's fairly safe to assume that owners of rx-8 are performance minded otherwise a Mazda6 would more than satisfy every other non-performance oriented needs right?
and it is at this point that the hp loss becomes an issue. You can recount the times you beat this car or that car or how fast it feels. I don't know. I mean everyone has it's own driving back ground. Some rx8 owners are prolly first time owners! Yes it's possible these days. Or ppl who graduated from a Sunfire or Civic to an rx-8. Against those cars, sure 180whp will be fast.
I can only speak for myself, if my current car didn't dyno near it's rated hp/tq, I'd be mad. I bought my car with that hp in mind. If it was rated at a lower hp figure at least I know going into the purchase.
This hp issue happened with Ford as well. Remember the Mustang Cobra? Well after many complaints Ford finally rectified the problem and gave them free mod upgrades.
Question is, as an owner of this rx-8 will you just sit around in "denial" or act as a group?
having said that, this issue could very well be that the JDM rx8s were running at higher octane whereas here you have crappier gas which leads to lower hp figures. YMMV.
Yes there are many cars at 50k with less than 180whp. But those are not marketed as a high performance car. Is the rx-8 in that category or no? This is the question. I think it's fairly safe to assume that owners of rx-8 are performance minded otherwise a Mazda6 would more than satisfy every other non-performance oriented needs right?
and it is at this point that the hp loss becomes an issue. You can recount the times you beat this car or that car or how fast it feels. I don't know. I mean everyone has it's own driving back ground. Some rx8 owners are prolly first time owners! Yes it's possible these days. Or ppl who graduated from a Sunfire or Civic to an rx-8. Against those cars, sure 180whp will be fast.
I can only speak for myself, if my current car didn't dyno near it's rated hp/tq, I'd be mad. I bought my car with that hp in mind. If it was rated at a lower hp figure at least I know going into the purchase.
This hp issue happened with Ford as well. Remember the Mustang Cobra? Well after many complaints Ford finally rectified the problem and gave them free mod upgrades.
Question is, as an owner of this rx-8 will you just sit around in "denial" or act as a group?
having said that, this issue could very well be that the JDM rx8s were running at higher octane whereas here you have crappier gas which leads to lower hp figures. YMMV.
Clear as mud?
08-06-2003, 05:35 PM
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quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Gord96BRG
If you like the performance, you're set - buy your RX-8 when it arrives, and IF there is a problem, Mazda will correct it or offer compensation. If it turns out like the Miata, then if you bought before the issue was acknowledged you would be entitled to the compensation. If the power is indeed lower than advertised, and Mazda decides not to change the power but change the advertised rating, then only those buyers who paid before the different power level was acknowledged would get the compensation.
Regards,
Gordon
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by delhi
Yes there are many cars at 50k with less than 180whp. But those are not marketed as a high performance car. Is the rx-8 in that category or no? This is the question. I think it's fairly safe to assume that owners of rx-8 are performance minded otherwise a Mazda6 would more than satisfy every other non-performance oriented needs right?
and it is at this point that the hp loss becomes an issue. You can recount the times you beat this car or that car or how fast it feels. I don't know. I mean everyone has it's own driving back ground. Some rx8 owners are prolly first time owners!
I can only speak for myself, if my current car didn't dyno near it's rated hp/tq, I'd be mad. I bought my car with that hp in mind. If it was rated at a lower hp figure at least I know going into the purchase.
This hp issue happened with Ford as well. Remember the Mustang Cobra? Well after many complaints Ford finally rectified the problem and gave them free mod upgrades.
Question is, as an owner of this rx-8 will you just sit around in "denial" or act as a group?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RotaryJay
I agree with you here. Regardless of how nice the car is, it should be what they advertise. If they say 250HP, then it should be 250HP. If not, it is called false advertising... and no matter how much you love the car or not, false advertising is not good. I am an RX nut (I've had 3 RX-7's and have my sights on an RX-8), so this isn't slagging the car. When I buy something advertising 250HP, I want 250HP.
Clear as mud?
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See Gord, this is what i was just trying to explain...........
just chill with all the IF's directed to me, because i'm just getting my opinions and views from the people inside Northhill/Kramer and Sunridge Mazda.
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Originally posted by Gord96BRG
If you like the performance, you're set - buy your RX-8 when it arrives, and IF there is a problem, Mazda will correct it or offer compensation. If it turns out like the Miata, then if you bought before the issue was acknowledged you would be entitled to the compensation. If the power is indeed lower than advertised, and Mazda decides not to change the power but change the advertised rating, then only those buyers who paid before the different power level was acknowledged would get the compensation.
Regards,
Gordon
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by delhi
Yes there are many cars at 50k with less than 180whp. But those are not marketed as a high performance car. Is the rx-8 in that category or no? This is the question. I think it's fairly safe to assume that owners of rx-8 are performance minded otherwise a Mazda6 would more than satisfy every other non-performance oriented needs right?
and it is at this point that the hp loss becomes an issue. You can recount the times you beat this car or that car or how fast it feels. I don't know. I mean everyone has it's own driving back ground. Some rx8 owners are prolly first time owners!
I can only speak for myself, if my current car didn't dyno near it's rated hp/tq, I'd be mad. I bought my car with that hp in mind. If it was rated at a lower hp figure at least I know going into the purchase.
This hp issue happened with Ford as well. Remember the Mustang Cobra? Well after many complaints Ford finally rectified the problem and gave them free mod upgrades.
Question is, as an owner of this rx-8 will you just sit around in "denial" or act as a group?
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RotaryJay
I agree with you here. Regardless of how nice the car is, it should be what they advertise. If they say 250HP, then it should be 250HP. If not, it is called false advertising... and no matter how much you love the car or not, false advertising is not good. I am an RX nut (I've had 3 RX-7's and have my sights on an RX-8), so this isn't slagging the car. When I buy something advertising 250HP, I want 250HP.
Clear as mud?
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See Gord, this is what i was just trying to explain...........
just chill with all the IF's directed to me, because i'm just getting my opinions and views from the people inside Northhill/Kramer and Sunridge Mazda.
08-06-2003, 10:07 PM
#23
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Originally posted by Smoker
Based on the Assumption that you did this on a track and not on the street. Good Job Pete for smoking the S2000. But my bet is on you smoked him because you have better driving/launching skill than the S2K guy.
As far as I know, with the Power and Weight that the S2K got, the RX-8 should be no match for it until at very high speed.
Based on the Assumption that you did this on a track and not on the street. Good Job Pete for smoking the S2000. But my bet is on you smoked him because you have better driving/launching skill than the S2K guy.
As far as I know, with the Power and Weight that the S2K got, the RX-8 should be no match for it until at very high speed.
Make Sense ?
08-26-2003, 08:44 PM
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HOLY!!!!!!! this was the thread i started awhile back, one of the originals if not the original for the Canadian forum side. All I want to say to all the people that sent negative PM's i got in regards to this matter, and me trying to wreck the RX-8 image, me trying to spread rumors, well i guess its NOW OFFICIAL. So really, am I that idiot some of you people thought i was, or was i the person that said, "I loved Mazda and the RX-8", all i was doing was just looking out for all of us RX-8 fanatics!!!!!
For the people that did send me thanks for the heads up in info, i just want to say thanks, you know who you people are!!!!!
I'm not looking for an apology from anyone, i just wanted to get this of my chest, and hopefully we as RX-8 lovers can be a lot more open minded when something like this gets brought up
For the people that did send me thanks for the heads up in info, i just want to say thanks, you know who you people are!!!!!
I'm not looking for an apology from anyone, i just wanted to get this of my chest, and hopefully we as RX-8 lovers can be a lot more open minded when something like this gets brought up
