Install Meet This Weekend
05-25-2009 | 04:04 PM
#80
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a)'cause they are on par with Bilstein as the best OEM shocks manufacturer in the world...
b)'cause most winning BS Rx8 runs with revalved Koni Yellow
c)'case most Japanese shocks are crap :P
http://farnorthracing.com/autocross_secrets6.html
Of course, 90% of what you read from internet is crap...but if I have a choice of Bilstein/Koni vs other japanese brand for shocks, for my application I will definitely go for Bilstein/Koni - Bilstein B8 Sprint HD or Koni Yellows to be exact.
FYI, before 01racing kicking my ***, I want to state that I know STOCK car with sticky tire is the fastest, after witnessing in my car chasing down a full mazdapseed preped rx8 race car @ mosport last year...
b)'cause most winning BS Rx8 runs with revalved Koni Yellow
c)'case most Japanese shocks are crap :P
http://farnorthracing.com/autocross_secrets6.html
Of course, 90% of what you read from internet is crap...but if I have a choice of Bilstein/Koni vs other japanese brand for shocks, for my application I will definitely go for Bilstein/Koni - Bilstein B8 Sprint HD or Koni Yellows to be exact.
FYI, before 01racing kicking my ***, I want to state that I know STOCK car with sticky tire is the fastest, after witnessing in my car chasing down a full mazdapseed preped rx8 race car @ mosport last year...
05-25-2009 | 06:50 PM
#85
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Bilstein use mono-tube design gas pressure shocks for both front & rear. Koni prefer 'oil pressure' shocks for front instead.
And no, they are not adjustable, but for people who don't really race my car (eg, autocross) I don't need the adjustability - moreover, Bilsteins are self adjusting anyway...the more and the longer the load is the more stiffer they get.
To me, Bilstein HD is a great comprise for improvement over stock shocks with mostly all season street and occasional track use. There is a reason All Rx7 R1 R2 and Rx8 R3 models using Bilstein shocks.
Again, you can read stuff from internet too...this is from NSXPrime:
http://www.nsxprime.com/FAQ/Performance/suspension.htm
Originally Posted by NSXPRIME
Kern Fischer (former engineer for GM, Ford, Director of engineering for Maremont Corp. manufacturers of Gabriel and other private label shocks and former pro rally driver) and I, discussed this issue in depth over lunch today. I asked Kern to document his comments as my short hand stinks. He offers the following:
"The adjustment is on jounce (wheel moving down relative to body) control only. If too much jounce control is introduced, the wheel cannot adequately follow uneven surfaces and handling can actually be decreased. Ride quality also suffers. The adjustable feature also requires some experimentation and expertise to optimize the settings front to rear for any particular track/road situation. What works well at one track may not work well at another.
The Bilstein dampers have linear valveing control that is tailored to the vehicle. My experience of having them on four vehicles and working with numerous customers on custom applications is that they are very tolerant of variations in spring rate and vehicle weight. They also offer excellent ride/handling compromise. In all cases the ride quality has been very acceptable and the handling control is excellent.
The Bilsteins have also proven to be very long lived. Of the four personal cars, one was sold with 105,000 on the dampers and it went to 140,000 before losing track of the car. One currently has 80,000 on the dampers. It is used on the street and track and is very stable and controllable while still being a treat to drive.
Car 3 had no listing in the Bilstein catalogue so we built some special dampers using the factory strut tubes with inserts that were physically correct but were designed for other (lighter) cars. The front inserts were for one car and the rears were for another. This effort was expended because I knew that the installation would be a "install and forget" situation. The car was sold with 12 years of use and 120,000 miles on the dampers. It had been used primarily as a street car but also had in excess of 20 track weekends on it. Just before the sale it had been to two track events and felt like new. The purchaser, coming back from the test drive, commented that he was amazed at the handling, given the miles on the car. His second comment was "can I take it home now!" It is still being used three years later, same dampers - current mileage unknown.
The experience with these 3 cars led to the choice of Bilstein for the 4th car. The car as delivered from the factory had good handling but was slightly soft for my taste. It also had some nose rise under acceleration and dip under braking. The installation of Bilsteins resulted in a more stable chassis while the ride quality remained relatively unchanged even with the sport setting." (end of commentary)
Several years ago, Road and Track performed a damper test. At that time, Koni and Bilstein were the leaders of the pack by a fair margin. The Konis set on full stiff were slightly faster than the Bilstein on the track but the car could not be driven comfortably on the street with that setting. The Bilsteins were very acceptable for both environments with their single dampening setting.
05-25-2009 | 06:57 PM
#86
Pros car before we upgraded the front coils:
Front End Original
Back End Original
Installed
Coke Can Standard (CCS)
Sorry Pros can't find any AFTER pics from the same side angle as the one above. We will have to make sure we take one next weekend.
Shameless plugs
Front End Original
Back End Original
Installed
Coke Can Standard (CCS)
Sorry Pros can't find any AFTER pics from the same side angle as the one above. We will have to make sure we take one next weekend.
Shameless plugs
05-25-2009 | 07:16 PM
#87
Being (new) single rocks!
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,485
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From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
I really like the adjust ability of Tokico D Specs because it makes a real difference in terms of ride quality with a wide range of settings available. So you can really dial in what works for you personally given your local road conditions and your need for performance vs comfort. The adjust ability is not a marketing gimmick, it is something that adds real value.
05-25-2009 | 07:27 PM
#89
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I really like the adjust ability of Tokico D Specs because it makes a real difference in terms of ride quality with a wide range of settings available. So you can really dial in what works for you personally given your local road conditions and your need for performance vs comfort. The adjust ability is not a marketing gimmick, it is something that adds real value.
It is a marketing gimmick to me, since I don't know jack about suspension performance at all. I don't even have a shock dyno to quantify shock setting changes.
btw, the Koni adjustable is for adjustable in rebound only. And unlike other adjustables, the Konis do not have discrete settings in the form of discernible adjustment **** detents or "clicks." Instead, the adjustment **** spins smoothly from one end to the other, making it difficult to establish reference points and plot out individual damping curves...and I can say that by experience.
Not to start another senseless internet argument, I do know most Rx8 entries in BS national levels got Koni yellows since they know how to tune it. However, for a normal joe like me, I'd rather mount and forget than fcking up a good stock suspension setting (rx8).
Last edited by Kafka; 05-25-2009 at 07:31 PM.
05-25-2009 | 08:27 PM
#92
The pic of the plane I took while sitting in the lounge at OHare Airport and FAIL Road is in the state of Indiana. I drive by it on my way to the coating mill.
05-25-2009 | 08:45 PM
#94
^^^
He did get the wrong spring compressor for the Saturday. He came back Sunday with the right type of spring compressor.
And I would like to come out to more meets but its hard when I travel as much as I do. Remember I did make it out to your place Scott. But Sadly Yessss. I've not made it to any official events yet.
He did get the wrong spring compressor for the Saturday. He came back Sunday with the right type of spring compressor.
And I would like to come out to more meets but its hard when I travel as much as I do. Remember I did make it out to your place Scott. But Sadly Yessss. I've not made it to any official events yet.
05-25-2009 | 10:18 PM
#95
I am The One!
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,751
Likes: 25
From: Aurora, ont
rx8thunder,
As soon as I get the springs delivered, I'll see about asking for help on 1 of the weekends in June.
I hope the springs come within 2 weeks or so.
In the meantime I hope to get the FD back on the road.
wcs,
Where are the after install pics???
I love those pics about the plane and the road. lol
As soon as I get the springs delivered, I'll see about asking for help on 1 of the weekends in June.
I hope the springs come within 2 weeks or so.
In the meantime I hope to get the FD back on the road.
wcs,
Where are the after install pics???
I love those pics about the plane and the road. lol
05-25-2009 | 10:37 PM
#96
Jay took all the pics. Most of them are shots of his car. There are a couple of the Spring and Shock assy on my garage floor and a couple of the control arms.
I will post them tomorrow.
Jesus you guys are more work than my wife
I will post them tomorrow.
Jesus you guys are more work than my wife
05-26-2009 | 07:08 AM
#98
grass hopper
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,195
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From: Guelph, Ontario
Neo, just one thing i thought of after re-reading your issues. have you done a compression check? I know you baby your baby and everything. but you should know as well as i do that rotarys dont like to idle at all if their compression is very low. just a thought.
Last edited by rotarygreg; 05-26-2009 at 07:13 AM.
05-26-2009 | 07:34 AM
#99
I am The One!
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,751
Likes: 25
From: Aurora, ont
Hey Greg,
Yeah, everyone thinks the worst when it comes to our engines. But I can assure you, it's not that. Reason being, last time I took her out she ran fine. Just out of the blue I would lose throttle response. That's what caused her to die, and subsequently she will not hold idle.
The engine barely has 15K on it, and it's built to the teeth. 3mm seals were used becuase Mazdee's took 1 look at the turbo and wanted to make sure he didn't have to rebuild the engine for a long time.
Another reason why I know it's not the engine is, the car fires up normally. Sounds normal, does all the normal things. Only when it tries to stay in warm up mode, the ECU appears to send a signal to the throttle to remain partially open to maintain the 1500rpm warm up, but the car refuses and dies.
She fires up everytime, but refuses to hold idle.
Either something crazy is happening inside the ECU, or it might be receiving a faulty signal from a sensor somewhere. Gotta get inside the ECU to find out what's triggering the faulty reading.
Yeah, everyone thinks the worst when it comes to our engines. But I can assure you, it's not that. Reason being, last time I took her out she ran fine. Just out of the blue I would lose throttle response. That's what caused her to die, and subsequently she will not hold idle.
The engine barely has 15K on it, and it's built to the teeth. 3mm seals were used becuase Mazdee's took 1 look at the turbo and wanted to make sure he didn't have to rebuild the engine for a long time.
Another reason why I know it's not the engine is, the car fires up normally. Sounds normal, does all the normal things. Only when it tries to stay in warm up mode, the ECU appears to send a signal to the throttle to remain partially open to maintain the 1500rpm warm up, but the car refuses and dies.
She fires up everytime, but refuses to hold idle.
Either something crazy is happening inside the ECU, or it might be receiving a faulty signal from a sensor somewhere. Gotta get inside the ECU to find out what's triggering the faulty reading.