Chris_Bangle

iTrader: (2)

Neo's description - is way better than anything I wrote about why perhaps people should watch a video of the line a few times.

Footman

iTrader: (2)

I was behind a red 328i last year which was holding up a LOT OF PEOPLE!!! pics to prove.

thewird

It was at an actual track day, not parade lapping. I showed him how to drive his car properly and the next session he put it into the wall trying to do what I did.

There were a lot of street cars that were totaled last year at Mosport, I just don't want too see it anymore. There is no reason for it unless your competing.

thewird

Neo

What that person lacks is driving feel. He just saw you do it, so he magically thought the car was doing all the work. And "I saw him do it, so I know I can!" mentality doesn't help.

Very few people know the limits of the vehicle and themselves at "race" speed. It takes some practice (in most cases, you either feel it, or you don't) before you can gather confidence to start to push the limits of the car.

Giving proper instructions is also key. You have to be able to communicate what the car is doing before, during, and after the corners.
Just grabbing the car and saying "let me show you what the car can really do!" is not helping the person. That's just show boating.

There's a time and place for everything. The parade lap isn't one of them. Neither is a paid lapping day when one person grabs another persons car to "show them what the car can really do" and not offer any piece of advice.

Footman

iTrader: (2)

All the RX8's should be together.... the rest of the cars can do whatever they want... I'd assume all the RX7's also want to be together...

Neo

That's what I'm getting at... it's not that simple to bunch the people together. I would be more inclined to bunch the people who've been at the track together, and some of the newbies near the back.

Didn't I mention some of the RX-8 drivers have a bit of a learning curve as well?

thewird

It wasn't a case of "heres what the car can do, now you try it". I did talk to him a bit as I had seen him drive but I'm not an instructor. He had asked me to take it for a few laps so he could learn from it. It wasn't his first time at the track so it wasn't like I was showing a first timer what the limits of his car was (as best as I could bring out a car that wasn't mine anyway). Anyway, I learned from it that its not that simple.

But what you said is basically the same thing. You can't just show them something for them to learn. It's the same as watching a video, you won't be learning anything from it until you've gone out with your car behind the steering wheel so you can actually feel it for yourself and learn the limits of the car as well as your own limits.

thewird

rx8-druggist

omg that guy was ridiculous - I understand its a parade lap and we're not supposed to be driving like Andretti but i mean the crap he was pulling was inexcusable.

agree with neo on the grouping (if its feasible to do?)... those who are comfortable with tracks should be following each other and guys who are less experienced and want to take it easy can go with one another.

Footman

iTrader: (2)

Another good reason why the same cars should be together is that of the similar physical characteristics of the vehicles are together barring all differences between driver input.

With a common denominator, if the rx8 ahead can navigate a certain corner at a certain speed, it is more than often likely that the rx8 behind it can also safely navigate the corner at the same speed thus keeping pace.

Of course I understand there are tons of variables like different people have different suspension setup, different tires, etc...

but these differences are much less than when you put a completely different cars going into the same corner one following another.

01Racing

Ah contraversy lol. Let us review...............Everyone is in different cars with different abilities which is why we have 2 pace cars one at the front and one at the back. We have a choice at Mosport, we can go as fast as the pace car can go up the back straight and then slow way down for turn 8 and cruise around the backstraight again so everyone gathers back up. Over the years we have caught the back of the field too many times.

Some people figure they will be smart and hang back then try and pick up speed which is what I believed cause one of the two who went off.

The purpose of the day is to get people on the track who would normally never go to a lapping day but want to get out and see the track in real life.

Every year we say the same thing in a drivers meeting which is follow the guy infront of you in their tire tracks starting with the 1st car behind me in the pace car. The line I run is not the school or lapping line it is the race line (at least for me and my RX7 it is lol). That line is the fastest and also leaves little room for mistakes.

The idea is to go at a brisk pace and have fun with hopefully no casualties lol. You are welcome to organize anyway you wish before we head out on the track

REV-illusions

iTrader: (3)

I agree with pretty much everything that's been said here so far...

After a few years of doing this (one trying to coordinate it), the problem normally comes around when the groups are forming in the pits. People get antsy and jump up in with the lead pack when it's their first time out because they don't want to be left behind. This has happens year over year and is generally why you get the big gaps and people sliding off as they try to play catch up (had an Acura do a 360 in front of me because he was going in too hot and decided to brake through turn 2 because of this). If I hadn't seen what was about to happen before he did there's a chance that he would have bounced off me...

It's really not about speed or anything like that... it's about how comfortable people are going around the track in their car. Some are fine with it (such as most of the poster's in this thread), others are not.

Could be fixed by simply asking the following questions at registration:
- do you feel comfortable driving the car at speed?
- have you been on a race track before?
- have you been to the track in the car you're currently driving?

Oh, and before someone barks about question 3, the reason for this is because in taking with a number of the "slower" folks in previous events they have made mention that it's their first time in that car.. and while they've been to a track before, they're not sure what the car can do and wisely back off (just sometimes a bit too much). This wouldn't really apply to someone with a lot of track experience in different cars.. but it's a start.

In any case, if any of those questions get answered with a "No" then they're placed in group 2 (label their band with a 2 or something on it). Anyone with a 1 gets sent out to the pits to line up 5 minutes before group 2 lines up so the break between the two groups is clear. If you're late in getting to the grid.. too bad.

This would take care of thewird's concern about someone trying to copy-cat through a corner when they really shouldn't because the skill level isn't there (a safe speed is safe).

Footman, what you mentioned before about different setups can make a HUGE difference in what a car is capable of doing around a corner (depending on what has been done). If a noob was given this advice it could really end up badly because they saw someone with a fully tuned suspension go around a corner 15 kph faster their what their car (or themselves) were capable of.

At the end of the day, people should go through the corners at a speed they're comfortable. No one wants to see someone's car get scraped off the wall.

Anyways.. that's my 30 cents.. no more for me.

Chris_Bangle

iTrader: (2)

Mr. Balinsky I got to say - this is an interesting parade lap you are running with people managing to go off

On a serious note this is a great idea and for a good cause - respekt and best of luck with racing this season.

Edit: just in time of the parade laps Compass360 has what you need: http://www.casc.on.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=22177

zoomboomgr8

ok it sound fun and i definitely wont mind keeping pace. the problem is my tires. theyre pretty much done. should/can i still use them?

REV-illusions

iTrader: (3)

are they past the wear bars? If so, buy new tires.

You're only going to be out there for 30 minutes.. and while we won't be pushing too hard, there's a good chance you're going to scrub off some rubber.

DWM-motorsports

There should be no problem keeping up with the pace car this year. I believe Al will be in a Scion....
Al did you order a super charger from TRD yet?

nate340

maybe post a quick user guide.
"Noobs Guide to Driving on Track"
1:Be smooth
2:Do all braking before you enter the turn
3:Don't shift mid corner be in the appropriate gear before you enter the turn
4:No music listen to your rpms and tires.

i'm sure Allan could write up a quick guide in minutes lol

01Racing

Not to be a ***** but...................Scion TC on a dyno had more Wheel horsepower than some of the 8's here that day.

Othe rinteresting news I drove one of our other stores 2011 Mitsu Evo with the 6spd dual clutch today...............WOWOWOW I will be bringing it to a lapping day or 2 this year..............

01Racing

Honestly the biggest problem comes from people not paying attention in the drivers meeting. If everyone did as we said and followed the person ahead in the tire tracks eveyone would be on the same line and wouldnt fall off at the speed we are going. Its when they lag back and then go offline that they get into trouble. If you think about it the pace cars are usually the stockest cars out there on the worst tires, 2 years ago it was my Mspeed 6 on crappy chunked Falcons, last years was in Josh's RX8 stock suspension and worn out Bridgestones. I might add a pace car half way back and try and get people to follow properly this time, that way we can pick up the pace!

This video clip shows me in the lead of my class near the end of the race, the 2nd place car is about 10 car lengths behind me and I am going up the back straight and see a lower class car I am going to lap. The closing speed is quite fast I am doing about 142 mph at the end of the straight and he is doing about 90. The turn leaving the backstraight is turn 8 and speed is about 80 mph. Watch what happens when I pay attention to the car behind me heading into turn 10, I almost through the race away at 50mph.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErGszRHcscA

REV-illusions

iTrader: (3)

I call shenanigans on that RX-8 dyno. Was all lies I say!

DWM-motorsports

Ok AL
Not to be a ***** but......... Make sure that Scion has the right decal package before heading out on track..
At the end of the day, stay safe and raise lots of cash for charity!

Kafka

hey hey hey what you sayin Al "the stockest cars out there on the worst tires"

My car is faster than a roll-caged mazdaspeed rx8!!! lolz

01Racing

You know Josh that was one of the most fun runs I have had a Mosport, nothing like the satisfaction of putting a big mouth in his place using a leather seated stock RX8 and driving around a gutted caged race car. That was a great day lol. I should have let you film that..................

Kafka

Sorry Al I was too busy shitting my pants in my own car ....

Hey I did write a report lol
https://www.rx8club.com/canada-forum-35/i-hate-mondays-i-have-post-sept-1-2008-a-155458/

I gotta pass on this since I am still in Cuba until Sat night...not sure if I can wake up in time hah

REV-illusions

iTrader: (3)

so what day is this thing happening on exactly?

DWM-motorsports

I wasn't driving the car that day, but I can tell you the "race prep." Rx8 is a bone stocker except safety equipment as per the Targa rules for the class in which it was in.
Big differance was R1 tires against worn out stock tires and a Driver in almost a red mist.
Al...... "big mouth", a little harsh, dont you think.