Just had one of my first near death experience ( or death to my wallet experience anyway). I was actually looking forward to drive the Rx8 in the snow. My Rx8 is snow-virgin, and I Just installed the snow tires ( 215/55/17 WS-50) yesterday in anticipation of this snowstorm.

So I have to pick up a pascal to the post office and i decided to take the rx8 to see how it will handle in the snow (hence the photo journal)

1. the 8 getting ready to touch snow for the first time





At first the road wasnt too bad, have to go quite a bit slower but still managable.



Then It got a little worst as I approach the residental area where the post office is located



and finally arriving at the mall where the post office is located, the road is pretty much covered in snow and ice


So I picked up my package.. left the mall.. and going the the opposite direction on the same road as the picture above, the light turns red at the intersection. But no problem, I was only going ~ 20km/hour, no cars infront/beside, still ~ 5 car length away from the light. ( the car behind me didnt follow too close to me cuz he saw me having trouble pulling out of the parking lot, pretty much back wheel spinning but not going anywhere) I lightly tap on my brakes ( while I put my car in neutral), then suddenly my car starts skidding forward ( while my foot is on the brake in neutral) at a rate faster than before I even hit the breaks, I started going sideway, then ended up 1 lane to the right, half a car length to the light post , facing the oncoming traffic direction ( so i guess ~ 180degree turn).
The car behind me saw that and had to do an emergency steering to avoid hitting me head on and ended up in the middle of intersection ( luckily no other car was around).


Long story short, I put on my emergency light.. drove home.. and called it the day..

now w/ the RX8 safely back in the garage..I'm not looking forward to the work day tomorrow.



this is the first time I own a RWD car, so did I do anything wrong? when i encounter an ice patch should I slam on the brake? dont hit the brake? steer the other way? put the gear in first instead of neutral?
NO traction control or ABS kicked in during the whole incident!

 

what brand and model are your tires, they may be alittle wide? From what I understand snow tires work best if they are narrow so they can cut into the snow.

I have the Blizzaks lm22 and they are awesome. I have driven in snow like the pictures you provided and had no problems. I always leave traction control on and my car would have used it in those conditions multiple times.

 

Hey,

I run Yoko's on the stock 18" rims on a GS.... No problems in the snow....
In fact, I'm looking forward to winter driving.... (except the slush/salt to wash off the car!)

Maybe your tires suck and/or u got to get used to the RWD.... I know when I got caught last rear w/ all-seasons on the first snowfall the car was practically undriveable.

G'luck

 

You didn't seem to do anything to provoke it. Maybe it was unsalted ice, as those pics suggest. TSC and DSC certainly won't save you on ice. Or you didn't let the ABS do your work, you SHOULD have felt it pulsing if you applied full brake pressure. Dunno. Maybe your winter tires are uni-directional, so check to see if you mounted them right (i.e. they must turning in the right direction for the tread patern, look for an arrow on the sidewall).

And you sliding around leaving the parking lot suggests your driving your 8 as you would in the dry (usually at higher revs). In snow and ice always have it a gear higher than usual - not lugging the engine but always at low revs.

Otherwise, nice pics!

 

I think that your tire width is ok ... most of us run 215 or 225 for the winter. I've heard somethings about the WS50's being ok but LM22 probably would have been better (this is just word of mouth .. I don't have actual proof). I think it has something to do with the WS50 being made of a multicell compound which is "squishier" than the regular high silica compound of the LM22 ... and the LM22s have a harder side wall.

Seeing as that you have a Shinka, it does come with all the DSC/TCS right? Very odd on how nothing came on. One comment might be that you may have shifted into neutral too early and that you should steer the direction that you are skidding. Hope the rest of the season's drives are uneventful.

Dying_here .. where are you located again?

 

Sounds like a rough ride.

Don't worry you will get used to it. Easy as it goes though. The braking thing sounds a little strange as I found my 8 to be pretty reasonable under braking last winter. using the gears is always a good thing in the snow if you have the chance. The only time I had a braking issue like that was when I had one side of the car hooked up in some heavy slushy crud like snow and the other side running on a relatively clear path in the lane.

Get used to starting from 2nd gear on days like your picture. A little extra weight in the back over the rear wheels is always helpful - not too much though as you don't want that weight to act like a pendulum going around a corner.

Nice winter wheels ! I would check your tire pressures too. Help me out guys too high on snows and they drive like crap on the dry, too low and they won't dig through the snow?? Maybe I've got that the wrong way round.

 

I bet he's in Calgary. Some of those streets look familiar.

I was going to run errands today (with the 8) but elected not to. I still have my summers on, and my winters are stored at a friend's place. I have to drive over to get them!

*sigh*

 

+ 1 for ice. ABS should work when you have traction.

I wonder, however, if when you lifted off of the gas to clutch in before shifting into neutral, there was a split second when you were engine braking AND braking at the same time. That might have been enough to break the rears loose (engine braking) and start a slide and then continue the slide (zero traction = useless ABS) when the rears locked up when you were braking.

I've always wondered if jumping off of the clutch fast was enough to do that in this car - it gets a little lungy at low speeds.

The WS-50s aren't unidirectional tires, I think.

The LMs are unidirectional tires. The compound is different from the WS-50. The WS series are pretty good snow and slush tires, a little less so for pure ice.

 

Yeh i'm from Calgary, and im sure all you fellow Calgarian are also experiencing this snowstorm.

Thanks for the comment guys, Just checked to make sure all the tires in the right direction and they are. I think it must be because, like some of you suggested, I shifted into neutral too early. Usually as soon as i see the light ( or the need to stop) I put the car into neutral right away and hit the brakes. I'm going to drive around a little later tonight ( when there are no cars out) to get use to driving this thing in the Winter. hopefully it was just my lack of techniques not the tires. Dont want to buy a new set of tires after using these ones for 20 min.

 

oh and Im running my tires at 32PSI following the instruction on the side of the door. Is that right? should it be higher/lower because I've moved from 18 to 17

 

The instructions on the side of the door are for the stock OEM rubber. Those are the pressures you use for spring/summer/fall. Since you live in Calgary, and you mounted snow tires on, you have to use a higher pressure!
Check your manual (I know some people hate checking the manual...).
It'll say how much higher you'll have to run the tire pressures.

I just switched out my mazda3 tires to winter. Stock pressure is 33psi. However, with winter tires I have to add 4.3psi (according to the manual) to the stock pressure. I put in 37.5psi on my winter tires.

Check under "winter driving" in the manual.

Lates,

 

I use the same tires and leave the DSC on except when I'm starting from a slippery intersection.


We just got dumped on here yesterday and I had to drive to work with my summer tires. I'll be calling around this morning trying to get in to have my winter tires put on. It was a white knuckle drive me me this morning.

 

The WS-50's in that size ARE uinidirectional. From the photos, it appears as though they are installed correctly... At least on the right side.

 

is it? I took a look last night and they have arrows pointing in the direction of rotation. They all point towards the front of the car ( clockwise on the right, counterclockwise on the left..) so I think its all good. I took the car out to an empty parking lot last night and spin around, it wasnt too bad actually. I think I just hit a bad patch of ice and the neutral thing. Starting in 2nd instead of 1st definitly made it alot easier!! so thanks for the advices guys! slowly learning how to drive RWD haha

 

Yeah, from your first and last photos, the tires on the right side are oriented properly. Unless the tire shoppe really screwed the pooch, the tires on the left side should be oriented properly as well. Yes, they should point to clockwise on the right side and anti-clockwise on the left.

Just remember, if you're the one responsible for taking the wheels off when the warmer weather hits, to note which wheel came off which corner and that way you'll know where to put them back on NEXT winter, rotating them front-to-rear and on the same side, so you can spread out the tire wear.

 

um cough, who helped(where was the snow that u absolutely had to put them on sat), that is true neo regarding tire presure, but on ice all the presure in the world won't help, sounds like ice

take it easy man, and keep the shinny stuff shinny

 

Heh ... I just swapped to winters yesterday during the Calgary storm. Good times. Last couple of winters, I was trying to run about 36psi in the winter tires.

 

Just got the LM22's but on today....what a difference they make! THis is the third winter for them and there is still lots of tread there.

 

If the car tried to spit you off the road all of a sudden, it could be the limited slip differential. Miata drivers have this problem. But you said you were already in neutral when it happened, so that sort of complicates things.

 

If it was so slippery that you were spinning out your traction control (wavy light signal) should definitely be coming on. Even if the light was not working, you would feel the spinning wheel(s) lock out in attempt to regain grip. I would give the dealership a call about it the traction control and the ABS.

I know I went through many days last winter looking at the traction control symbol on my dash.

 

I put my toyo Garrit HT's back on this weekend. Today was my first try with them on the highway for this season. Kind'a warm today at 55 degrees F. This will be the third winter for them and they still look brand new. Anyways, they seem really squirmy this year. I've pumped them to 36 PSI and the limit is 44PSI. Something seems amiss though at highway speeds. Kind'a like when you gas it the car pulls left and the when you back off it pulls to the right. Is it just me or is something wrong with the tires. I stored them in the garage on their side one on top of each other.
Railton

 

There's always a bit more squidge with winter tires than the summer tires. Verify the installation is correct, and that if they are unidirectional tires that they rotate in the right direction.

However, check for pressures left and right. I can't imagine the 8 would torque steer...(!)

You're not likely to notice flat-spotting with the tires on their side, and even then, it'd be more of a shuddering.

 

Yes, they are unidirectional tires and they rotate in the right direction per the arrows marked on the sidewalls. I have them mounted on their own alluminum alloy wheels and they haven't been off them since new.
I checked the torque and it's at 65 ft/lbs.
PSI's checked and within a 1lb of each other.

Railton

 

Railton ... could it be that perhaps you lost one of the balancing counterweights? That's pretty extreme though if the wheels are pulling

The other comment I can make is that the torque for your lugs are a bit low. I know in the workshop manual suggests 65-87ft/lbs but the new revised bullentin says to torque it to 108ft/lb. To be honest, 65ft/lb of torque is very minimal and I wouldn't feel safe with that low torque. I say at minimum, do 87ft/lb (the 108 was to counteract the wheel-snap turning noise)

 

Counter weights? Do you mean wheel balance weights? OK, I will re-torque to 87 ft/lbs and see what that does.
Thanks.