Need new coils
02-24-2009, 11:12 AM
#26
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Let me see if I understand something correctly. Maybe I dont. The GM coils were designed to fire once every 4 strokes of the engine at no more than 5000rpm. The temperature surrounding the GM coil would be significantly lower. The Mazda coils must fire 3 times per revolution of the rotor at up to 9000rpm. Why would the GM coils be any better?
02-24-2009, 11:18 AM
#27
Attack of the Black
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Ah ha! He has you there Sir! Nice one Al! Hey whatcha gunna charge me for new coils? I may order them myself and have one of the guys here help me if there are any takers for a case of beer...or two...
02-24-2009, 11:21 AM
#29
If someone could donate 1 brand new OEM ignition coil, and 1 brand new GM yukon coil, I would happily perform some tests and get some real results.
The test methodology is simple.
Run both coils on the test bench firing at the rates it would fire at 9000rpm for 240 hours (leaving test bench operating for 10 days continuously).
See which one fails first, and if neither fails, evaluate the voltage and current characteristics of the unit thereon after.
I'm surprised why BHR has not donce this to prove their products longevity?
We can further simulate the effects of heat by putting these two coils in a test environment inside a toaster oven set for max temperature (500 F) to put some stress on these coils in a real life environment.
The test methodology is simple.
Run both coils on the test bench firing at the rates it would fire at 9000rpm for 240 hours (leaving test bench operating for 10 days continuously).
See which one fails first, and if neither fails, evaluate the voltage and current characteristics of the unit thereon after.
I'm surprised why BHR has not donce this to prove their products longevity?
We can further simulate the effects of heat by putting these two coils in a test environment inside a toaster oven set for max temperature (500 F) to put some stress on these coils in a real life environment.
02-24-2009, 11:43 AM
#30
grass hopper
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ill help you out if you wanna drive to guelph.
and al, one thing you forgot to mention though, remember the rotor isnt doing 9000rpm. however i can see what you are saying. there is a serious lack of real head to head comparison information here.
02-24-2009, 12:24 PM
#31
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I keep seeing people write about getting coils replaced under the powertrain warranty...Is this true? I know for a fact that it has to be my coils that are causing the rough idles, power loss, shuddering and stalling. So what's the truth? Are they covered?
Oh and thanks for the offer Greg, Guelph's a little outta the way though
Oh and thanks for the offer Greg, Guelph's a little outta the way though
02-24-2009, 12:41 PM
#32
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Al, now that I think about it, I think this bad boy needs a compression test. From what I'm reading, it's either the coils or the need for a new engine (it IS an 04 AT after all). I dont want to have to go through the cost of replacing everything only to be told that the engine needs replacing under warranty, y'know? Sorry for hijacking the thread (kind of). :S
02-24-2009, 02:23 PM
#34
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It aint good I know that.
02-24-2009, 05:00 PM
#35
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If someone could donate 1 brand new OEM ignition coil, and 1 brand new GM yukon coil, I would happily perform some tests and get some real results.
The test methodology is simple.
Run both coils on the test bench firing at the rates it would fire at 9000rpm for 240 hours (leaving test bench operating for 10 days continuously).
See which one fails first, and if neither fails, evaluate the voltage and current characteristics of the unit thereon after.
I'm surprised why BHR has not donce this to prove their products longevity?
We can further simulate the effects of heat by putting these two coils in a test environment inside a toaster oven set for max temperature (500 F) to put some stress on these coils in a real life environment.
The test methodology is simple.
Run both coils on the test bench firing at the rates it would fire at 9000rpm for 240 hours (leaving test bench operating for 10 days continuously).
See which one fails first, and if neither fails, evaluate the voltage and current characteristics of the unit thereon after.
I'm surprised why BHR has not donce this to prove their products longevity?
We can further simulate the effects of heat by putting these two coils in a test environment inside a toaster oven set for max temperature (500 F) to put some stress on these coils in a real life environment.
02-24-2009, 05:52 PM
#36
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Btw the coils are still firing 3 times per one revolution of the rotor.
There are 3 rotary companies out there that are the real deal as far as I am concerned. Racing Beat, MazdaTrix and AWRRACING. These guys supply Mazdacomp. If they dont make it, its probably not worth having. They all have dynos and do there own testing!
Last edited by 01Racing; 02-24-2009 at 05:55 PM.
02-24-2009, 06:09 PM
#37
3-wheeler
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Erick, Easy_E1, has been running our coils on the street using the first production version of our upgrade and has done so without any failures. He's been using nitrous for most of that time as well. Charles R. also has one of our early production sets.
I know the dwell characteristics for the yukon coils have been posted I'll have to see about hunting it up.
02-24-2009, 07:33 PM
#38
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Congrats Greg! Your the second person I have ever met in Ontario that realizes that. Okay everyone (other than Greg) if the engine RPM is 9,000, how fast are the rotor tips actually turning????
Btw the coils are still firing 3 times per one revolution of the rotor.
There are 3 rotary companies out there that are the real deal as far as I am concerned. Racing Beat, MazdaTrix and AWRRACING. These guys supply Mazdacomp. If they dont make it, its probably not worth having. They all have dynos and do there own testing!
Btw the coils are still firing 3 times per one revolution of the rotor.
There are 3 rotary companies out there that are the real deal as far as I am concerned. Racing Beat, MazdaTrix and AWRRACING. These guys supply Mazdacomp. If they dont make it, its probably not worth having. They all have dynos and do there own testing!
this thread is turning into a BHR hate thread. lol. I'd just like to state my original opinion, if i had the money i would buy this from them. It wouldnt be the first thing i would do to the car, but i would definitly get it. however, im going to be getting the OEM coils for my car after the winter because of cost and the fact that i dont have a problem with OEM coils. More money to spend on fuel (and oil) to and from track and autoX events that im planning to take part in after the winter. haha.
Last edited by rotarygreg; 02-24-2009 at 08:08 PM.
02-24-2009, 09:23 PM
#39
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haha, i was even gonna include the number in my post, but i decided to not be too much of a smart ***. lol. I was just pointing out, yes, 3 firings per revolution of the rotor, but thats a far cry from 9000rpm. Im curious now if everyone else knows that. i thought it was common knowledge for all us rotards.
this thread is turning into a BHR hate thread. lol.
this thread is turning into a BHR hate thread. lol.
Either way, currently we have approx 60 kits in the field and a pre-order list that continues to grow every day.
In regards to "testing" and dyno graphs...we have already done all that. We have done our testing on the street, on the race track and done both in some of the harshest climate that exists in the United States. We don't test our products on customer cars, we use our own.
I don't believe that this is a BHR hating situation. The fact is these questions have all been covered several times so I invite you to either search for the information or PM some of the 60 people who have bought our kit and get their impressions.
02-24-2009, 10:12 PM
#41
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02-24-2009, 10:15 PM
#42
All the test data that you have performed on these coils versus the stock coils.
you wrote "In regards to "testing" and dyno graphs...we have already done all that. We have done our testing on the street, on the race track and done both in some of the harshest climate that exists in the United States. We don't test our products on customer cars, we use our own."
So let's see the data and the results of these tests. What are these tests? What methodology was employed?
you wrote "In regards to "testing" and dyno graphs...we have already done all that. We have done our testing on the street, on the race track and done both in some of the harshest climate that exists in the United States. We don't test our products on customer cars, we use our own."
So let's see the data and the results of these tests. What are these tests? What methodology was employed?
02-24-2009, 10:26 PM
#43
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All the test data that you have performed on these coils versus the stock coils.
you wrote "In regards to "testing" and dyno graphs...we have already done all that. We have done our testing on the street, on the race track and done both in some of the harshest climate that exists in the United States. We don't test our products on customer cars, we use our own."
So let's see the data and the results of these tests. What are these tests? What methodology was employed?
you wrote "In regards to "testing" and dyno graphs...we have already done all that. We have done our testing on the street, on the race track and done both in some of the harshest climate that exists in the United States. We don't test our products on customer cars, we use our own."
So let's see the data and the results of these tests. What are these tests? What methodology was employed?
If an opportunity comes up, we may, but BHR has no intention of spending money to specifically dyno "prove" this product. The only thing we feel to be substantial would be to show what level of power mods, i.e. forced-induction, are needed in order to expose the weaknesses in the Ignition System. So far, with MM's dalliances all summer long in AZ on the racetrack, with boost pressures as high as 14-16 PSI, and no misfire episodes related to the coils (we did expose some lousy spark plug wires but they weren't MSDs), we believe that is all that is needed to qualify the benefits thereof. We also have Easy's nitrous expoits well past 8,000 RPMs with no misfires, either. I typically buzz my own engine to 9,500 RPMs and it pulls smooth the whole way.
We can also point to the universal impressions each new purchaser of this system report, which are improved driveability, as something of note.
With regard to dyno graphs, I will bet anybody the biggest documentable gains will not be seen in peak power but in the fact there there won't be nearly as much of a torque roll-off above 7,000 RPMs (as compared to OEM coils) and the torque curve across the RPM range will be smoother.
We can also point to the universal impressions each new purchaser of this system report, which are improved driveability, as something of note.
With regard to dyno graphs, I will bet anybody the biggest documentable gains will not be seen in peak power but in the fact there there won't be nearly as much of a torque roll-off above 7,000 RPMs (as compared to OEM coils) and the torque curve across the RPM range will be smoother.
There's also a results/impressions thread which can you browse where various RX8 owners who are using our kit have posted their opinions about the product.
https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-aftermarket-performance-modifications-23/bhr-ignition-system-results-impressions-163089/
02-24-2009, 10:33 PM
#44
Alright thanks for trying. But as I said, it is still just a longwinded paragraph explanation. There are some numbers there see that I would like to expand on..
You say the yukon coils are good for 50,000 volts and 120mA those are technical specifications. It makes no mention on the duration of firing? how long it can fire for? How does this compare to stock oem coils? What are "its voltage and current" ratings from your testing? How did you come out those numbers? Were they pulled from the box/ tech data sheet? If you got them from a lab, what was the lab bench setup? What were the parameters?
Without any direct comparison between this and the stock coil, it's not really proving a product's worthiness.
I read the entire thread on "BHR COIL impressions".... and as an engineer, impressions are just that.. impressions... nothing is factual without numbers/figures/statistics. Those are king in proving anything.
I'm not bashing your product, mind you. I understand your business model as there are very VERY VERY FEW people out there that truly are of stats and numbers. Which means, a greater portion >95% of your buyers will be buying your product simply from "impressions of other people who've had used it".
You also mentioned in a "qualitative statement", that your testing was done on nitrous and force-induction renesis engines. Does that mean no testing was done on naturally aspirated engines? Furthermore onto this, are there any factual gains for NA renesis?
You talk about general smoother torque curve. There is no dyno graph to demonstrate this, so again this is just an observation?
I'm trying to make clear what you are trying to sell here.
You say the yukon coils are good for 50,000 volts and 120mA those are technical specifications. It makes no mention on the duration of firing? how long it can fire for? How does this compare to stock oem coils? What are "its voltage and current" ratings from your testing? How did you come out those numbers? Were they pulled from the box/ tech data sheet? If you got them from a lab, what was the lab bench setup? What were the parameters?
Without any direct comparison between this and the stock coil, it's not really proving a product's worthiness.
I read the entire thread on "BHR COIL impressions".... and as an engineer, impressions are just that.. impressions... nothing is factual without numbers/figures/statistics. Those are king in proving anything.
I'm not bashing your product, mind you. I understand your business model as there are very VERY VERY FEW people out there that truly are of stats and numbers. Which means, a greater portion >95% of your buyers will be buying your product simply from "impressions of other people who've had used it".
You also mentioned in a "qualitative statement", that your testing was done on nitrous and force-induction renesis engines. Does that mean no testing was done on naturally aspirated engines? Furthermore onto this, are there any factual gains for NA renesis?
You talk about general smoother torque curve. There is no dyno graph to demonstrate this, so again this is just an observation?
I'm trying to make clear what you are trying to sell here.
Last edited by Footman; 02-24-2009 at 10:37 PM.
02-24-2009, 10:47 PM
#45
I am just going to say one thing...these coils were not for power gains...if there are any, it's a bonus....the real reason for these is the fact that the OEM coils are a known weak link.
If the yukon's lasted all the "abuse" that BHR threw at them, (boosted applications with no misfires), than that says enough in my book. I would rather buy a set that will last anything I can throw at them and be done with it pretty much for the life of the vehicle. Just my 2 cents. Carry on.
If the yukon's lasted all the "abuse" that BHR threw at them, (boosted applications with no misfires), than that says enough in my book. I would rather buy a set that will last anything I can throw at them and be done with it pretty much for the life of the vehicle. Just my 2 cents. Carry on.
02-24-2009, 11:09 PM
#46
I don't buy Kool-Aid
Let me see if I understand something correctly. Maybe I dont. The GM coils were designed to fire once every 4 strokes of the engine at no more than 5000rpm. The temperature surrounding the GM coil would be significantly lower. The Mazda coils must fire 3 times per revolution of the rotor at up to 9000rpm. Why would the GM coils be any better?
02-25-2009, 01:34 AM
#47
02-25-2009, 02:55 AM
#48
Let me see if I understand something correctly. Maybe I dont. The GM coils were designed to fire once every 4 strokes of the engine at no more than 5000rpm. The temperature surrounding the GM coil would be significantly lower. The Mazda coils must fire 3 times per revolution of the rotor at up to 9000rpm. Why would the GM coils be any better?
I think that this is more of a matter of necessity, stock coils will not handle some drive styles for a long time while the yukon coils will. You can keep yourself replacing the stock coils frequently (i killed mines in 17500miles..) or simply try an upgrade.
@Footman: what kind of tests would you do on a set that is already installed?