Need new coils
02-27-2009, 04:49 PM
#127
Registered
If you read any of the comments by the consumers of this product then you would know EVERYBODIES opinion on NA/FI and Nitrous applications.
I showed mine to the service manager and master tech at my local Mazda dealer and they thought they were great. Having to change coils all the time with misfiring RX8's. He was impressed with a product that would not fail like Mazda's do.
I don't understand what your trying to do robrecht, other than cause drama.
Sheesh!
I showed mine to the service manager and master tech at my local Mazda dealer and they thought they were great. Having to change coils all the time with misfiring RX8's. He was impressed with a product that would not fail like Mazda's do.
I don't understand what your trying to do robrecht, other than cause drama.
Sheesh!
Your service manager sounds like a great guy but I wonder if he might change his tune if you ever needed an engine replaced under warranty. The stories are common here of owners being required to pay for new coils, plugs, wires, etc, before some service departments will even diagnose an engine problem. IIRC, I think mysql claimed that his engine was destroyed by another vendor's aftermarket coils. Is Mazda going to just say, oh no, that was a different vendor, but we completely stand behind Easy's aftermarket coils 'cause he's a really nice guy?
02-27-2009, 04:53 PM
#128
Administrator
iTrader: (7)
^^ Easy is the founder of the 4th engine club and I hate to say it but I'm sure he'll see #5 before it's all said and done and I'm pretty sure there won't be any issues with the coils.
02-27-2009, 04:53 PM
#129
As for what I'm trying to do, I was originally just trying to answer the OP's question, which I expect will be my own sooner rather than later if and when I need to replace my own stock coils, and I don't think it's a dramatic question at all. I have read some user comments about the coils but I didn't think you really wanted to endorse those who have claimed dyno-proven power increases or dramatic improvement in fuel economy over good stock coils. If you do, great! But I've heard you guys say that it is NOT a performance enhancing product.
Your service manager sounds like a great guy but I wonder if he might change his tune if you ever needed an engine replaced under warranty. The stories are common here of owners being required to pay for new coils, plugs, wires, etc, before some service departments will even diagnose an engine problem. IIRC, I think mysql claimed that his engine was destroyed by another vendor's aftermarket coils. Is Mazda going to just say, oh no, that was a different vendor, but we completely stand behind Easy's aftermarket coils 'cause he's a really nice guy?
Your service manager sounds like a great guy but I wonder if he might change his tune if you ever needed an engine replaced under warranty. The stories are common here of owners being required to pay for new coils, plugs, wires, etc, before some service departments will even diagnose an engine problem. IIRC, I think mysql claimed that his engine was destroyed by another vendor's aftermarket coils. Is Mazda going to just say, oh no, that was a different vendor, but we completely stand behind Easy's aftermarket coils 'cause he's a really nice guy?
Hope that helps!
All PMs replied.
02-27-2009, 05:07 PM
#130
Registered
I was going to contribute something data-driven here but, after reading the whole thread, I can see it would be a waste of time.
I'll just add this:
OE coils suck. This is well substantiated in thread after thread after thread.
I went through almost two dozen of the little beasties in three years.
Their failure is gradual, not a complete loss of power, so you would have to be constantly beating the crap out of your car and testing it day in and day out.
Which is exactly what I do.
I played around with several possible solutions in 2006 - 2007 and came up with this one at the end of 2007 and implemented it at the beginning of 2008.
It works, it doesn't fail and that is that.
My only criteria in designing this system was that it works. No more, no less.
I wasn't looking for it to make power - just allow the engine to make the power it should with the available air and fuel I supply it.
If you armchair engineers out there need more quantifiable data to get your dick hard, then I recommend you go out, buy your own parts and do whatever it is you are demanding of us, because we don't care.
Really we don't.
We built it. It does what we want. We put it on our cars and beat the **** out of it - day after day, track event after track event.
If you don't like it, shove it up your ***. Your prostate will thank you.
That is all.
I'll just add this:
OE coils suck. This is well substantiated in thread after thread after thread.
I went through almost two dozen of the little beasties in three years.
Their failure is gradual, not a complete loss of power, so you would have to be constantly beating the crap out of your car and testing it day in and day out.
Which is exactly what I do.
I played around with several possible solutions in 2006 - 2007 and came up with this one at the end of 2007 and implemented it at the beginning of 2008.
It works, it doesn't fail and that is that.
My only criteria in designing this system was that it works. No more, no less.
I wasn't looking for it to make power - just allow the engine to make the power it should with the available air and fuel I supply it.
If you armchair engineers out there need more quantifiable data to get your dick hard, then I recommend you go out, buy your own parts and do whatever it is you are demanding of us, because we don't care.
Really we don't.
We built it. It does what we want. We put it on our cars and beat the **** out of it - day after day, track event after track event.
If you don't like it, shove it up your ***. Your prostate will thank you.
That is all.
Two dozen coils in three years--wow! Obviously everyone respects what you've done with your car, Jeff, but ironically it's your kind of testimony that really makes me wonder if your bulletproof coils might actually be overkill for my modest stock commuter RX-8. I might do a HPDE/year or occasionally do some 1/4-mile runs but so far my stock coils don't show the faintest sign of any problems at all. Only 25k miles so far, and I don't know how long they'll last, but I've heard of others lasting quite a bit longer without any kind of problems. Most of us don't go through two dozen coils in three years. Maybe we don't need $480 coils if our $120 stock coils are doing just fine? Or maybe I will. You recommend these for totally stock applications? I imagine you don't recommend 800-rwhp axle shafts in a totally stock car, right?
02-27-2009, 05:20 PM
#131
Registered
Flawed analogy there sir.
More accurate:
The difference is the OEM part will fail every year and the warranty on your refrigerator will run out next year and the aftermarket part will last the life of your refrigerator. While it's more expensive to buy the aftermarket part you only have to pay the repairman once and buy the part once and your refrigerator will not crap out and melt your ice cream once a year for the next ten years.
I personally don't like fixing something over and over again or putting a part in my car or refrigerator that I know will just crap out again. Your call though...
And that is why I bought aftermarket coils in my totally stock application.
More accurate:
The difference is the OEM part will fail every year and the warranty on your refrigerator will run out next year and the aftermarket part will last the life of your refrigerator. While it's more expensive to buy the aftermarket part you only have to pay the repairman once and buy the part once and your refrigerator will not crap out and melt your ice cream once a year for the next ten years.
I personally don't like fixing something over and over again or putting a part in my car or refrigerator that I know will just crap out again. Your call though...
And that is why I bought aftermarket coils in my totally stock application.
02-27-2009, 05:22 PM
#132
Power!!
Personally, I don't think your data driven response would have been a waste of time, but it's your time so ...
Only 25k miles so far, and I don't know how long they'll last, but I've heard of others lasting quite a bit longer without any kind of problems. Most of us don't go through two dozen coils in three years. Maybe we don't need $480 coils if our $120 stock coils are doing just fine?
Only 25k miles so far, and I don't know how long they'll last, but I've heard of others lasting quite a bit longer without any kind of problems. Most of us don't go through two dozen coils in three years. Maybe we don't need $480 coils if our $120 stock coils are doing just fine?
When we did our dyno tuning day in January half the cars that went on the dyno had bad coils and most of the drivers didn't know it. It was very apparent to see that they were losing hp on the top end and couldn't get more out of the car without replacing the coils.
If you don't care about improving the performance of your car than just wait until your coils do fail. Then you'll have gotten the full life of your OEM coils and will know how long they will last. You'll be able to judge for yourself what your cost benefit will be. Again that's dependant on what YOU want and how YOU drive.
You're asking Ray to hit a moving target here with that question.
I can tell you if you have 25K miles on your original coils you have lost some of your top end power. How much? I don't know. We'd have to dyno your car against another car with proper coils to find out. so how much is it worth to you?
02-27-2009, 05:26 PM
#134
Administrator
iTrader: (7)
stock or modded won't make much of a difference (IMO) on the life of a coil. They just don't last. I should know, my car doesn't have any outrageous mods, yet I went through 3 full sets of the coils in the past 2 years.
Do the stock coils work? YES!! Hell, I have dynos to prove that they DO work, they just don't last.
For me it was simple: Again buy a product I know won't last long and go through hell trying to get it warrantied or buy a product that SHOULD far outlast the coils.
I figure if MM and Easy can beat the **** out of their cars in constant 110+ degree temperature at track events, then my kit should fair well
Do the stock coils work? YES!! Hell, I have dynos to prove that they DO work, they just don't last.
For me it was simple: Again buy a product I know won't last long and go through hell trying to get it warrantied or buy a product that SHOULD far outlast the coils.
I figure if MM and Easy can beat the **** out of their cars in constant 110+ degree temperature at track events, then my kit should fair well
02-27-2009, 05:28 PM
#135
Okay, Robrecht, lemme be the first to apologize for the contention inherent in this thread right now. Since your inquiry was sincere (as opposed to the seeming tenor of Footman's since he and I already discussed his inquiry via PM a long time ago) I will attempt to clarify what is going on;
1) BHR makes a set of 800 h.p. axles simply because at 400 rwhp, or so, the factory axles will snap. The 20B guys have proven this several times and they wanted something that would work for them. It didn't cost BHR any less expense to fully exploit the capacity of the rear axle joints, so I opted to build axles that would take advantage of this. BHR sponsors the Falken Drift RX-8, which has/had a 600 h.p. 20B. They were happy to no longer need to swap axles out after every event like they had to with the factory axles. We also don't suggest people buy them. Matter of fact, we are WAY ahead of the curve with that part but maybe Esmeril will help us with that.
2) Along these same lines, it became apparent that the RX-8 ignition system is prone to misfiring (whether or not a CEL illuminates) and anybody who attends a dyno event can now identify misfires becase we show them how misfires on the dyno sound and show them the drop/flattening in torque that occurs when misfires are present. After receiving input from people whom we trust that race their cars, and Jeff having used his own boosted Renesis as a test-mule, we decided to develop our own replacement coil kit. This is what is now known as the BHR Ignition System. There is no "mystery", "magic", or "secrecy" involved in much of what we do. Obvious and affordable solutions to problems that arise with the car. That is what we are trying to achieve. Lest anyone think we simply sell everybody as much as we can as quick as we can; I am really making sure two customers I am talking to via PMright now get clutches they need for their car rather than the 600+ h.p. clutches their friends have told them to get. I think they are growing frustrated with me but I like to inform people, first. Further, I steer people who ask about buying a BHR radiator away from them if they live in a climate that doesn't require it.
3) If you take a look at the rest of the BHR line of products you'll find some pretty weird stuff. Certainly not the sort that allows me to easily pay my rent and develop more product. BHR is trying to address REAL issues and not run-of-the-mill mods that everyone seems to be convinced they need. Hell, I still run the OEM intake box and my Renny is ported!
So, do we think the Renesis benefits from the BHR Ignition System, even in N/A mode? Yes. So much so that I left Ford Motor Company and moved to AZ just so Jeff, Erick, Todd, and myself can better develop it, build the kits, and serve all the other RX-8 market's needs. In other words, I have staked my financial future on this one particular mod, I believe in it THAT much.
From the input we get via PMs and the posts made by those who use it, they do too.
This explanation was not enough for Footman and I am sorry your inquiry was assumed to be in the same vein. I sincerely apologize for that.
1) BHR makes a set of 800 h.p. axles simply because at 400 rwhp, or so, the factory axles will snap. The 20B guys have proven this several times and they wanted something that would work for them. It didn't cost BHR any less expense to fully exploit the capacity of the rear axle joints, so I opted to build axles that would take advantage of this. BHR sponsors the Falken Drift RX-8, which has/had a 600 h.p. 20B. They were happy to no longer need to swap axles out after every event like they had to with the factory axles. We also don't suggest people buy them. Matter of fact, we are WAY ahead of the curve with that part but maybe Esmeril will help us with that.
2) Along these same lines, it became apparent that the RX-8 ignition system is prone to misfiring (whether or not a CEL illuminates) and anybody who attends a dyno event can now identify misfires becase we show them how misfires on the dyno sound and show them the drop/flattening in torque that occurs when misfires are present. After receiving input from people whom we trust that race their cars, and Jeff having used his own boosted Renesis as a test-mule, we decided to develop our own replacement coil kit. This is what is now known as the BHR Ignition System. There is no "mystery", "magic", or "secrecy" involved in much of what we do. Obvious and affordable solutions to problems that arise with the car. That is what we are trying to achieve. Lest anyone think we simply sell everybody as much as we can as quick as we can; I am really making sure two customers I am talking to via PMright now get clutches they need for their car rather than the 600+ h.p. clutches their friends have told them to get. I think they are growing frustrated with me but I like to inform people, first. Further, I steer people who ask about buying a BHR radiator away from them if they live in a climate that doesn't require it.
3) If you take a look at the rest of the BHR line of products you'll find some pretty weird stuff. Certainly not the sort that allows me to easily pay my rent and develop more product. BHR is trying to address REAL issues and not run-of-the-mill mods that everyone seems to be convinced they need. Hell, I still run the OEM intake box and my Renny is ported!
So, do we think the Renesis benefits from the BHR Ignition System, even in N/A mode? Yes. So much so that I left Ford Motor Company and moved to AZ just so Jeff, Erick, Todd, and myself can better develop it, build the kits, and serve all the other RX-8 market's needs. In other words, I have staked my financial future on this one particular mod, I believe in it THAT much.
From the input we get via PMs and the posts made by those who use it, they do too.
This explanation was not enough for Footman and I am sorry your inquiry was assumed to be in the same vein. I sincerely apologize for that.
Last edited by Charles R. Hill; 02-27-2009 at 05:33 PM.
02-27-2009, 05:35 PM
#137
Just to show my dedication, I will let chickenwafer shove a set up MY *** tomorrow. He'll feel better and I will get the prostate exam I probably need now that I am older than 40. 
02-27-2009, 05:37 PM
#138
Administrator
iTrader: (7)
you old bastards. Isn't the dyno day tomorrow? Best of luck! (don't let Eric blow up ANOTHER manifold)
Isn't the dyno day tomorrow? Best of luck! (don't let Eric blow up ANOTHER manifold)
02-27-2009, 05:38 PM
#140
Administrator
iTrader: (7)
that's not a nice thing to say about Eric
02-27-2009, 05:39 PM
#141
Registered
Are you asking Ray to tell you how long your OEM coils will last? I don't think anyone knows that but you once they fail.
When we did our dyno tuning day in January half the cars that went on the dyno had bad coils and most of the drivers didn't know it. It was very apparent to see that they were losing hp on the top end and couldn't get more out of the car without replacing the coils.
If you don't care about improving the performance of your car than just wait until your coils do fail. Then you'll have gotten the full life of your OEM coils and will know how long they will last. You'll be able to judge for yourself what your cost benefit will be. Again that's dependant on what YOU want and how YOU drive.
You're asking Ray to hit a moving target here with that question.
I can tell you if you have 25K miles on your original coils you have lost some of your top end power. How much? I don't know. We'd have to dyno your car against another car with proper coils to find out. so how much is it worth to you?
When we did our dyno tuning day in January half the cars that went on the dyno had bad coils and most of the drivers didn't know it. It was very apparent to see that they were losing hp on the top end and couldn't get more out of the car without replacing the coils.
If you don't care about improving the performance of your car than just wait until your coils do fail. Then you'll have gotten the full life of your OEM coils and will know how long they will last. You'll be able to judge for yourself what your cost benefit will be. Again that's dependant on what YOU want and how YOU drive.
You're asking Ray to hit a moving target here with that question.
I can tell you if you have 25K miles on your original coils you have lost some of your top end power. How much? I don't know. We'd have to dyno your car against another car with proper coils to find out. so how much is it worth to you?
I would love to delete my cat and have MM tune my car but haven't decided yet to do that. If and when I do, I wouldn't have any hesitation about buying bullet-proof coils. If I get a new RX-7 some day, that's a no brainer. But my RX-8 is a Mazda certified 4-door family sedan for now and my Miata has been a little more of a project car.
02-27-2009, 06:03 PM
#143
Registered
Okay, Robrecht, lemme be the first to apologize for the contention inherent in this thread right now. Since your inquiry was sincere (as opposed to the seeming tenor of Footman's since he and I already discussed his inquiry via PM a long time ago) I will attempt to clarify what is going on;
1) BHR makes a set of 800 h.p. axles simply because at 400 rwhp, or so, the factory axles will snap. The 20B guys have proven this several times and they wanted something that would work for them. It didn't cost BHR any less expense to fully exploit the capacity of the rear axle joints, so I opted to build axles that would take advantage of this. BHR sponsors the Falken Drift RX-8, which has/had a 600 h.p. 20B. They were happy to no longer need to swap axles out after every event like they had to with the factory axles. We also don't suggest people buy them. Matter of fact, we are WAY ahead of the curve with that part but maybe Esmeril will help us with that.
2) Along these same lines, it became apparent that the RX-8 ignition system is prone to misfiring (whether or not a CEL illuminates) and anybody who attends a dyno event can now identify misfires becase we show them how misfires on the dyno sound and show them the drop/flattening in torque that occurs when misfires are present. After receiving input from people whom we trust that race their cars, and Jeff having used his own boosted Renesis as a test-mule, we decided to develop our own replacement coil kit. This is what is now known as the BHR Ignition System. There is no "mystery", "magic", or "secrecy" involved in much of what we do. Obvious and affordable solutions to problems that arise with the car. That is what we are trying to achieve. Lest anyone think we simply sell everybody as much as we can as quick as we can; I am really making sure two customers I am talking to via PMright now get clutches they need for their car rather than the 600+ h.p. clutches their friends have told them to get. I think they are growing frustrated with me but I like to inform people, first. Further, I steer people who ask about buying a BHR radiator away from them if they live in a climate that doesn't require it.
3) If you take a look at the rest of the BHR line of products you'll find some pretty weird stuff. Certainly not the sort that allows me to easily pay my rent and develop more product. BHR is trying to address REAL issues and not run-of-the-mill mods that everyone seems to be convinced they need. Hell, I still run the OEM intake box and my Renny is ported!
So, do we think the Renesis benefits from the BHR Ignition System, even in N/A mode? Yes. So much so that I left Ford Motor Company and moved to AZ just so Jeff, Erick, Todd, and myself can better develop it, build the kits, and serve all the other RX-8 market's needs. In other words, I have staked my financial future on this one particular mod, I believe in it THAT much.
From the input we get via PMs and the posts made by those who use it, they do too.
This explanation was not enough for Footman and I am sorry your inquiry was assumed to be in the same vein. I sincerely apologize for that.
1) BHR makes a set of 800 h.p. axles simply because at 400 rwhp, or so, the factory axles will snap. The 20B guys have proven this several times and they wanted something that would work for them. It didn't cost BHR any less expense to fully exploit the capacity of the rear axle joints, so I opted to build axles that would take advantage of this. BHR sponsors the Falken Drift RX-8, which has/had a 600 h.p. 20B. They were happy to no longer need to swap axles out after every event like they had to with the factory axles. We also don't suggest people buy them. Matter of fact, we are WAY ahead of the curve with that part but maybe Esmeril will help us with that.
2) Along these same lines, it became apparent that the RX-8 ignition system is prone to misfiring (whether or not a CEL illuminates) and anybody who attends a dyno event can now identify misfires becase we show them how misfires on the dyno sound and show them the drop/flattening in torque that occurs when misfires are present. After receiving input from people whom we trust that race their cars, and Jeff having used his own boosted Renesis as a test-mule, we decided to develop our own replacement coil kit. This is what is now known as the BHR Ignition System. There is no "mystery", "magic", or "secrecy" involved in much of what we do. Obvious and affordable solutions to problems that arise with the car. That is what we are trying to achieve. Lest anyone think we simply sell everybody as much as we can as quick as we can; I am really making sure two customers I am talking to via PMright now get clutches they need for their car rather than the 600+ h.p. clutches their friends have told them to get. I think they are growing frustrated with me but I like to inform people, first. Further, I steer people who ask about buying a BHR radiator away from them if they live in a climate that doesn't require it.
3) If you take a look at the rest of the BHR line of products you'll find some pretty weird stuff. Certainly not the sort that allows me to easily pay my rent and develop more product. BHR is trying to address REAL issues and not run-of-the-mill mods that everyone seems to be convinced they need. Hell, I still run the OEM intake box and my Renny is ported!
So, do we think the Renesis benefits from the BHR Ignition System, even in N/A mode? Yes. So much so that I left Ford Motor Company and moved to AZ just so Jeff, Erick, Todd, and myself can better develop it, build the kits, and serve all the other RX-8 market's needs. In other words, I have staked my financial future on this one particular mod, I believe in it THAT much.
From the input we get via PMs and the posts made by those who use it, they do too.
This explanation was not enough for Footman and I am sorry your inquiry was assumed to be in the same vein. I sincerely apologize for that.
I've never had my car dyno'd or directly tested my coils so so far the only measure of my coils' health is fuel economy. Not sure if that means much of anything but others report imporved fuel economy with new coils and complain about terrible fuel economy beforehand so I'm guessing that means something. I can currently get 26-28 mpg at 65 mph with pure highway driving. I don't drive like that much but I do every once in a while 'cause I read somewhere fuel economy is the best way to guage the condition of one's car. If and when my coils start to go bad I will consider your replacement coils but I'm still not convinced they're the best use of my money. My wife would probably recommend the college fund, LOL.
02-27-2009, 06:08 PM
#144
02-27-2009, 06:26 PM
#145
Administrator
iTrader: (7)
02-27-2009, 06:59 PM
#147
Registered
I usually hit the rev-limiter at least 4-5x/commute and more on fun days, but of course I don't get that kind of mileage when I drive for fun.
02-27-2009, 07:08 PM
#148
02-27-2009, 09:43 PM
#149
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We love our cars and want the best for the Rx8. But we got screwed by too many vendors/vaporware before, that's why we want to know more and be more informed before making a decision...
The idea of using a truck engine coil in a rotary engine is absurd; that said, it must be the performance and characteristic of such coil that suits the needs of Rx8. By miracle or by chance somehow BHR discovered this and designed a replacement solution of the OEM coil.
I need to do more reading and studying, but I do believe BHR is not just another "Injen" CAI+25hp OMFGBBQL33t111PWR kind of company.
btw, Footman really is an engineer, and he also love his Rx8 to the point of putting his life at risk at one point during a breakdown on a national highway blocking the traffic. Its nothing personal at all. If you can convince him, you can make pigs fly lol.
Anyway, I am sure the dedication will pay off if you keep it up for years just like the Big 3 01Racing mentioned before. I will be crying with joy when the day BHR supercharger/turbo system is being built for Mazdaspeed parts / motorsports!
Peace.
The idea of using a truck engine coil in a rotary engine is absurd; that said, it must be the performance and characteristic of such coil that suits the needs of Rx8. By miracle or by chance somehow BHR discovered this and designed a replacement solution of the OEM coil.
I need to do more reading and studying, but I do believe BHR is not just another "Injen" CAI+25hp OMFGBBQL33t111PWR kind of company.
btw, Footman really is an engineer, and he also love his Rx8 to the point of putting his life at risk at one point during a breakdown on a national highway blocking the traffic. Its nothing personal at all. If you can convince him, you can make pigs fly lol.
Anyway, I am sure the dedication will pay off if you keep it up for years just like the Big 3 01Racing mentioned before. I will be crying with joy when the day BHR supercharger/turbo system is being built for Mazdaspeed parts / motorsports!
Peace.
Last edited by Kafka; 02-27-2009 at 09:49 PM.
