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There is still the fact that mine have worked great . I think it's in the setup and wiring ..........
Ya see that's the inconsistency that is confusing. Some have had great results others not so much. I tried the dedicated ground, sanded several locations down to shiny bare metal, tried larger wire, various dwell settings etc... I always got misfires
I don't necessarily blame the product, just sharing my experience in hopes that we might figure it out...
The D585 coils are just fine for high boost applications and in fact, I've ran a high psi application with no issues or any hint of detonation. Granted, your ground and harness is properly setup and gauged... I don't have the BHR kit, I've made my own. But I'm pretty sure you should not and will not have any issues with D585 coils with appropriate dwell timings.
As other's have posted, make sure the wiring harness doesn't have loose wires and is properly grounded (they are sensitive to abuse or improperly seated connections). The coils are overkill as-is to be honest for the rx8, so I'm not sure how or why you seemingly have issues with your tuning...
oh and p.s - these Yukon coils or "truck coils" have been used for many years in various rx7's/rx8's including 3 rotor applications producing ridiculous and reliable power... double check your dwell settings are appropriately matched and cooling is managed - otherwise I don't know what the hell you've been experiencing problem wise. Perhaps people have failing/bad coils? They aren't as rock solid or reliable out of the box as people make them out to be (ie. they are prone to bad batches or corruption when improperly wired/abused)
Last edited by BlackStealth; 03-20-2015 at 08:34 PM.
You built your own so maybe it's not the coils themselves. Or maybe it's bad batches, as you suggested, wouldn't surprise me. The fact remains that not everyone has had success. I didn't post here to bash the product in any sense. Plenty of people have had success, but there are those who have not. I only shared my experience here in hopes that a solution would be found for those who have issues.
The decision was made to not waste anymore time with the BHR coils. Car is now running on the AEM smart coils with 10 gauge wiring going to the battery. Big boy vs little sister...
Do you really think an S2 engine with 50k KM (30k miles) needs a compression test when they fixed the oiling in the S2's? I specifically waited for a car like this so the engine wouldn't be a question. This wasn't the only time I had seen that difference. Please don't assume I am basing any opinion stated here from one car. I only form an opinion after I've seen it on a couple of cars, otherwise its just a theory in my head until I see it again. I will gladly repeat the test on another car if a customer wishes, its not that hard to do at all. thewird
The decision was made to not waste anymore time with the BHR coils. Car is now running on the AEM smart coils with 10 gauge wiring going to the battery. Big boy vs little sister...
thewird
Pretty sweet. Be interested to see how it performs.
I haven't seen what you are referring to. Can you elaborate? I am honestly interested in what you are talking about here.
I believe he's referring to the 40% max duty AEM decided to label the coils with. I say to that "so what", 40% mercury coils is stronger then max dwell on BHR coils lol. I'm running 4.5ms pretty much across the board and then drop a little bit past 8,000 RPM. Turbo RX-8's don't make much power past 8,000 RPM anyway so really it doesn't matter. Max ignition power is only really needed around peak torque. And lets not forget 4 ms AEM coil != 4ms BHR coil power wise. The AEM's actually don't need as much dwell as the BHR's do cause they're stronger, I can't emphasize that enough.
I appreciate that, thanks. I am targeting 20psi this year to see what happens on a stock renesis. This is helpful info in case the stock coils start blowing out
I'm going to chime in here with my 2 cents worth...
When it comes to coils the end result is what matters. There isn't one coil setup that will work for every situation...or a need for super high output coils in MOST situations
Most users will have good results with the STOCK coils. There is an issue with these coils failing early and regularly. We have seen this in so many respects since the car was released that it is common to tell anyone with a poorly running car that has older than 30K miles ignition components to REPLACE them because it is likely to be the reason
BHR came out with their coil kit that uses Yukon smart coils with built in ignitors (like stock coils) The kit is plug and play and allowed users to have an EASY solution with coils that are much more robust than stock coils and a huge improvement in coil output. In most circumstances more than enough coil for a stock or modified Renesis.
That doesn't mean that this setup will work in every situation. There has been controversy with the dwell requirements for these coils...they are designed to use more charge time than stock coils, and there are issues with the amount of power they require for full use of there massive power difference over stock.
For a stock car this doesn't seem to limit there usefulness. It only becomes an issue when things are pushed way beyond stock. These coils work much better when they are paired with a retune including the dwell table to let their potential shine.
There are some that have issues with these coils without that retune...but it appears that the coils work well on a healthy motor as so many users have had great results.
As with every kit there are compromises. This is my opinion of what I see when people have issues with this kit. In order to make this kit plug and play....to keep the stock wiring intact, and to make it easy for users without electronics certifications to install them...the stock wiring harness has been retained. This is one of the limitations that I see as being a problem for users that push these coils past the normal stock Renesis or lightly turbo'd car that they were designed.
These coils use much more power than the stock coils...so using the stock wiring to supply that power is optimistic at best. The coils themselves aren't the issue..it is the power and grounds on the stock harness that are likely the issue. I have the same D585 coils on my car..and have no issues with over 500HP and a lot of water/Methanol. I also use an ECU that allows the proper dwell for these coils to work maximally, and have used wire that is the correct size for there power requirements at that output level
Are there other options for those of us that push there engines beyond where these coils work...YES.
The IGN1a or AEM coils seem to be the new Inductive Kids on the block for systems that run higher boost..or a lot of Water/Meth that require a hot spark to ignite. They have power requirements over that of the D585 coils in the BHR kit.....you wouldn't want to implement them the same way as the BHR kit...and you sure don't need them on anything that the Renesis is easily going to put out. In some respects the dwell issue is likely lower...but the power requirements at that dwell are worse..so once again...a compromise
To rant at BHR for using a well thought out kit that works for almost all users is ridiculous. If you don't understand what your ignition requirements will be...and step over the line and get bit in the *** that is your fault.
For Charles @ BHR to tell us that his kit isn't the issue and shift the focus away from potential issues isn't helping either.
There were coil solutions before, and hopefully more will be developed to suit the requirements of the few that push things over the norm. CDI ignition systems produce way more power than either of the mentioned options...and in situations where they are needed can ignite 50PSI and methanol for huge power. The price and power required for these systems wouldn't make them an option for anything Normal
I think it would be nice to see more open discussion from all parties on this issue, and a lot of other issues in regard to pushing these cars. The ranting and infighting gets in the way of problem solving and coming up with solutions that work on the real world
Behavior as seen in this thread will get us no-where.....except a lot of name calling and hard feelings
I think it would be nice to see more open discussion from all parties on this issue, and a lot of other issues in regard to pushing these cars. The ranting and infighting gets in the way of problem solving and coming up with solutions that work on the real world
Amen to that .... Would really like to know what is going on with these coils in boosted applications . The issue is real and crops up often but is obviously solvable !
FWIW : I have the ebay wireing loom which differs from the BHR loom. It had 4 quite long individual earth wires which I shortened right down and attached to engine block then added the heavy gauge wire to battery. I also have different leads and bracket(both modified from old Mazsport ignition parts).
So what I have does differ from the BHR kit quite a bit . But nothing i could really point to with confidence and say ... "that's it !"
I think one of the biggest issues now is the stock harness. The wires were marginal when new for the amperage those coils draw...and with a 10 year old harness there are bound to be more issues. Another thing I have wondered about is the location of the ESS wires and the potential for interference. Especially when the harness has been re/re a few times. Quickest way to misfires are crosstalk in that circuit...
I think if I had issues...the first thing I would do is rewire the power and ground wires to the coils without the stock plugs and adapters...using larger 10/12ga or so wire. It's an easy thing...just run a relay and use one of the stock power wires to trigger the relay.
If that didn't work I would check the ED wiring for issues
I just don't like the # of crimps in the plug and play setup for higher power systems
I think one of the biggest issues now is the stock harness. The wires were marginal when new for the amperage those coils draw...and with a 10 year old harness there are bound to be more issues. Another thing I have wondered about is the location of the ESS wires and the potential for interference. Especially when the harness has been re/re a few times. Quickest way to misfires are crosstalk in that circuit...
I think if I had issues...the first thing I would do is rewire the power and ground wires to the coils without the stock plugs and adapters...using larger 10/12ga or so wire. It's an easy thing...just run a relay and use one of the stock power wires to trigger the relay.
If that didn't work I would check the ED wiring for issues
I just don't like the # of crimps in the plug and play setup for higher power systems
I think it would be nice to see more open discussion from all parties on this issue, and a lot of other issues in regard to pushing these cars. The ranting and infighting gets in the way of problem solving and coming up with solutions that work on the real world
This is purely why I posted my experience. I have much respect for Charles and meant no ill words towards him, sincerely hope no one misconstrued any of my posts. Enough people have had success that I have to believe he puts out a good product, and I know from experience that he has excellent customer service.
At the same time, as Brettus mentions, the issue is real and enough people have experienced it that I believe even Charles would like to find a resolution.
Originally Posted by Brettus
Amen to that .... Would really like to know what is going on with these coils in boosted applications . The issue is real and crops up often but is obviously solvable !
Came to the same conclusion myself long ago. One of the issues is that the energy overload dwell point shifts by the manufacturer and when it triggers the coil basically misfires. Some might go out to 6 mS, others might go off at 4.5 mS etc. Pantera EFI now offers a D585 version with this removed, so you won't have that problem.
The ING-1A is the answer. The responses in this thread are typical:
I agree with Brett!
MY personal experiece:
My BHR kit ran great n/a. It ran great while boosted as well, but I did start seeing some misfiring and starting issues months after being boosted. Bought the tester Brett pictured and found a faulty coil. Charles sent out a new one. Problem solved. I ran 11psi daily and 15psi on occasion. No misfire, no problem...
*edit* I forgot to mention I changed dwell time while being n/a. No dyno but the butt dyno definitely felt the difference. These LS coils need to dwell time changed. Without it they just are not worth it... I have to say I'm intrigued by my findings on 7club about the mercury coils. I'm doing more research now
Last edited by yomomspimp06; 08-31-2015 at 09:28 AM.
I have also seen multiple issues with the use of these coils and have always maintained they are no better (actually worse at startup) than the stock coils when the dwell is left unchanged .
On multiple occasions i've been remotely tuning turbo 8s with BHR coils that have had misfires once the boost has been raised . On each occasion BHR has replaced the coils and voila! ... the problem is gone .
I find it really hard to believe that there have been that many faulty coils around and think that there are other issues from the install that have contributed. Unfortunately , not seeing the cars in person makes it harder to figure out what is going on.
I run the same coils (D585) on my own setup and have run at over 16psi without any misfires at all with various plug types/gaps and including water injection.
So in short ... there is something going on here but I disagree with thewird that the coils are useless for high boost .
Originally Posted by Brettus
Recent first hand experience with someone having ignition problems on a boosted car with these coils has lead me to this conclusion :
Everyone that has an issue with the 585s in a boosted application should get one of these :
I believe Brettus is reffering to me.... will be testing my coils this weekend to get to the bottom of it.
Originally Posted by yomomspimp06
I agree with Brett!
MY personal experiece:
My BHR kit ran great n/a. It ran great while boosted as well, but I did start seeing some misfiring and starting issues months after being boosted. Bought the tester Brett pictured and found a faulty coil. Charles sent out a new one. Problem solved. I ran 11psi daily and 15psi on occasion. No misfire, no problem...
I've also had exceptional customer service from Charles. I know that if this is the issue I find I will not hesitate a second to deal with BHR again...
I am curious about the review on the SakeBomb ignition coils.
I just got mine in the mail two days ago, and will be installing it this weekend; however, I am curious how it will perform in a turbo application? Mine is a N/A so I know this does not affect me.
In theory it does sound like the SakeBomb ignition coil kit should run better than any other kits out there, since its (SakeBomb's) kit is used for 2-stroke engines, like the characteristics of a rotary.
03-19-2015, 06:25 PM
