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^ And this is exactly why RX-8 knowledge doesn't evolve sigh... Lets just keep using the same garbage that others feed us.
What the hell does that prove in any way when there is proof over and over again that the coils can't take high demand on OUR engines. You know the ones were using it on? Stop reading and start testing to make conclusions based on results, not theory. Theory wastes peoples time and money.
thewird
You can proclaim yourself some sort of expert on the matter, since you seem to think the dozens of RX-8s you have dealt with create some sort of objective database for yourself. Meanwhile, I have offered my particular ignition system for more years than you have even been touching the RX-8 and I have sold around 7,000 of my ignition systems with little trouble and 99% satisfaction. A great deal of them were/are boosted, too, so think what you want, post what you want, and I wish you luck in the future.
What I find particularly entertaining with all this nonsense is that any one of us with REAL experience (you know, the shops like Pettit, Mazmart, Mazcare, Atkins, Racing Beat, Pineapple, etc.) knows that the tech side of what all we do is the easy part and there is really nothing too complicated about it. It is when interlopers with subjective views, limited experience, and agendas of their own allege things that are of little concern.
But that is okay with me; I have been bashed all over this forum since the day BHR was formed (some of it even deserved) and those who did not build me cannot tear me down...... even you, who has had issue with me since you appeared on the scene.
And I guess the dozens of us others running the D585's for years without ignition issues isn't proof of anything, lol. But let me guess our various setups are not "high demand". But we have set of the Sake bomb coils here that have yet to be installed so we shall see since the car they are going on has had a set of BHR coils on it for years.
My opinion on the matter; if the Mercury coils prove to be worth every penny paid for them and the BHR system is run "out of town", that is truly fine with me as that is the evolution Marcos (sic?) and others may seek and the challenges in business come daily for me, anyway. I still have a few more ideas to develop for the RX-8 and I certainly have my next 4-5 streams of income in various stages of development, as well, so the party for Charles R. Hill will continue ad infinitum. :-)
And I guess the dozens of us others running the D585's for years without ignition issues isn't proof of anything, lol. But let me guess our various setups are not "high demand". But we have set of the Sake bomb coils here that have yet to be installed so we shall see since the car they are going on has had a set of BHR coils on it for years.
Not really because pretty much 99% of BHR coil experience/"proof" is based on the following course of events...
- car has trouble with failing OEM coils and/or worn spark plugs
- BHR kit is ordered and installed
- car receives some much needed maintenance cause the general population doesn't do any preventative and waits until there is a problem before addressing it
- the fresh set of spark plugs and healthy coils fixes problem
- conclusion is drawn that BHR coils are then considered better when the OEM coils would have done the exact same job and in fact better if still running stock tune
So the problem is the "proof" is just drawn from lack of understanding which leads to an incorrect conclusion. Actual testing of the product leads to the opposite conclusion.
Originally Posted by Charles R. Hill
But that is okay with me; I have been bashed all over this forum since the day BHR was formed (some of it even deserved) and those who did not build me cannot tear me down...... even you, who has had issue with me since you appeared on the scene.
Don't have anything against you. Just tired of dealing with this particular product and having to explain to people why its not better under certain conditions. The only reason you have sold a lot of coils is because pretty much every RX-8 had failing original ignition coils and this was the only option available for people that prefer to upgrade. It's too bad they didn't know they were going backwards on a stock setup. You basically just got lucky due to peoples need to fix their car with no real competition.
The only reason you have sold a lot of coils is because pretty much every RX-8 had failing original ignition coils and this was the only option available for people that prefer to upgrade.
I find it entertaining when the only argument against whatever I offer the RX-8 community is to insult those whom are satisfied with what I provide or to insult those who reverse-engineer my products. I guess that is what "tuners" capitalize on in their own businesses; ignorance of the masses. Good business plan, Marcos.
Nice maneuver projecting your own experiences as a "tuner"/mechanic on my existence as a product developer, too. Be sure to enjoy dragging your knuckles through the grease as that is all you will achieve. The guys at Sake Bomb Garage have the guts to put their money where their mouths are, as feckless as that might be but least they are using their own money (presumably) to do so.
What great products or services are you providing this community that does NOT invoke BHR? LOL
Because you will probably not get the point; I am engaging in rhetoric so don't bother with a reply as I am already gone.
Last edited by Charles R. Hill; 10-01-2015 at 10:13 AM.
Not really because pretty much 99% of BHR coil experience/"proof" is based on the following course of events...
- car has trouble with failing OEM coils and/or worn spark plugs
- BHR kit is ordered and installed
- car receives some much needed maintenance cause the general population doesn't do any preventative and waits until there is a problem before addressing it
- the fresh set of spark plugs and healthy coils fixes problem
- conclusion is drawn that BHR coils are then considered better when the OEM coils would have done the exact same job and in fact better if still running stock tune
So the problem is the "proof" is just drawn from lack of understanding which leads to an incorrect conclusion. Actual testing of the product leads to the opposite conclusion.
Don't have anything against you. Just tired of dealing with this particular product and having to explain to people why its not better under certain conditions. The only reason you have sold a lot of coils is because pretty much every RX-8 had failing original ignition coils and this was the only option available for people that prefer to upgrade. It's too bad they didn't know they were going backwards on a stock setup. You basically just got lucky due to peoples need to fix their car with no real competition.
thewird
That is a truck load of Bullshit. I know a dozen or so people in our local group who have the BHR kit and have for years and no one that I can recall bought the BHR kit because they had failing coils or to fix a problem. It was a smart buy for all of us who intended on keeping our RX-8's for years to come. I am sure many of the thousands who bought kits did buy it after having problems, but to say 99% of them did is horse ****. And Charles always made it a point to inform people that the kit was not miracle fix or HP adder. But everyone is entitled to an opinion I guess.
That is a truck load of Bullshit. I know a dozen or so people in our local group who have the BHR kit and have for years and no one that I can recall bought the BHR kit because they had failing coils or to fix a problem. It was a smart buy for all of us who intended on keeping our RX-8's for years to come. I am sure many of the thousands who bought kits did buy it after having problems, but to say 99% of them did is horse ****. And Charles always made it a point to inform people that the kit was not miracle fix or HP adder. But everyone is entitled to an opinion I guess.
I only had a few thousand miles on my coils when I installed the BHR kit and I won't be able to provide any scientific evidence but it was a significant improvement for my car. It wasn't just in my head to justify the purchase, it was night and day.
I only had a few thousand miles on my coils when I installed the BHR kit and I won't be able to provide any scientific evidence but it was a significant improvement for my car. It wasn't just in my head to justify the purchase, it was night and day.
It generally is night and day because original stock coils suck and a fresh set of spark plugs alone can be night and day.
Originally Posted by Charles R. Hill
I find it entertaining when the only argument against whatever I offer the RX-8 community is to insult those whom are satisfied with what I provide or to insult those who reverse-engineer my products. I guess that is what "tuners" capitalize on in their own businesses; ignorance of the masses. Good business plan, Marcos.
Nice maneuver projecting your own experiences as a "tuner"/mechanic on my existence as a product developer, too. Be sure to enjoy dragging your knuckles through the grease as that is all you will achieve. The guys at Sake Bomb Garage have the guts to put their money where their mouths are, as feckless as that might be but least they are using their own money (presumably) to do so.
This has nothing to do with a "business plan". If it was a business plan, I wouldn't be so aggressive in my opinion as that generally doesn't bode well with the masses like ever. It is mainly targetted at people actually trying to make real power on high boost as the BHR coils are essentially useless in that department. Aside from my own experiences which are many, I've been approached multiple times in person and over PM's by people of the diy nature which I'm not even involved in and every time AEM coils fixes their problem. They don't want to post to avoid the useless shitstorms like this or simply don't care but I frankly don't give a **** what you cry babies think and affects zero my business one way or another as I'm booked for like 9 months, I really don't want more business to be frank lol, less is more. I would prefer more quality time with cars though instead of having to explain why the customers upgraded coils can't do the job and waste time getting parts and/or having to have a simple bracket kit and some wiring.
The majority of RX-8 owners aren't really trying to make power for one reason or another (mostly cause the $/return is so low on an RX-8) so the weakness in the coils which is only extremely obvious in high boost situations rarely gets exposed and when it does its generally not posted about because "well it could have just been a bad coil right?". Except its a consistent problem so no its not a bad coil or a problem with the setup.
It generally is night and day because original stock coils suck and a fresh set of spark plugs alone can be night and day.
thewird
Changing the dwell is what makes them night and day. I've got a fresh motor and can tell right away the lag you get in startup stock dwell.
I love these coils (BHR) BTW. They worked fine for me with updated dwell up to 14 PSI and the one time I thought I had a problem with them I got a brand new set for diagnosis. Having ruled them out as root cause Charles let me keep the new ones anyway.
Are we going to get the same level of support elsewhere?
Changing the dwell is what makes them night and day. I've got a fresh motor and can tell right away the lag you get in startup stock dwell.
I love these coils (BHR) BTW. They worked fine for me with updated dwell up to 14 PSI and the one time I thought I had a problem with them I got a brand new set for diagnosis. Having ruled them out as root cause Charles let me keep the new ones anyway.
Are we going to get the same level of support elsewhere?
Yes agreed dwell does make the LS2 truck coils night and day but its still insufficient for high hp.
It generally is night and day because original stock coils suck and a fresh set of spark plugs alone can be night and day...
...but I frankly don't give a **** what you cry babies think...
I have been following this thread with some interest as I have the BHR kit and have considered purchasing the SakeBomb kit.
I consider myself reasonably objective on the subject and can form my own opinion.
I have been reading many opinions on many different subjects on a near daily basis on this forum for nearly 3 years now.
I have no technical expertise, but a solid mechanical background, and do 95% of all the maintenance and repairs needed on all the vehicles I have owned for well over 30 years.
Some inconsistencies in your posts have led me to reply.
Your vociferous responses seem to imply that you actually do give a huge f**k what people think.
You have stated that new stock coils are better than the GM truck coils, but just stated the stock coils 'suck'.
So the GM coils are 'suckier'?
Contradictory.
When I first bought my 8 with less than 19k miles, it had a bad coil and bad cat.
I replaced the plugs, wires, and coils, and installed a midpipe, it ran much better than before, and I was very satisfied with it.
In doing research about the misfires and codes I was getting, I read many opinions on different coils and ignition components, with many praising the BHR kit.
I quite possibly would have bought the SakeBomb kit instead if it had been available.
I soon after replaced that virtually new set of OEM coils, wires, and plugs after deciding to buy the BHR kit, and noticed a definite difference in performance with quicker throttle response being very apparent to me.
Your insistence on being completely right and everyone who even remotely disagrees with you being completely wrong doesn't seem justifiable.
Short of testing every component before and after installation, I can reasonably assume you may be wrong, whereas you refuse to even acknowledge that you could be.
I've decided against replacing my BHR kit for now, in large part due to the discussions in this thread.
I may in the future buy the SakeBomb kit, but I'll need some convincing that it's so superior as to justify what amounts to about $1200 worth of an ignition swap.
My take on this for anyone looking to swap is if you have. Bhr just buy a tuner instead of new ignition. If you're replacing stock coils then give the sake bomb ones a good consideration.
But holy cap 1200 bucks. Just get. Bhr and a tuner for that price. Heck that'll even pay for a tune.
My take on this for anyone looking to swap is if you have. Bhr just buy a tuner instead of new ignition. If you're replacing stock coils then give the sake bomb ones a good consideration.
Poo
But holy cap 1200 bucks. Just get. Bhr and a tuner for that price. Heck that'll even pay for a tune.
Hey log, the SakeBomb was $650, I think it was supposed to go up to $750 this month.
What I meant by that was by getting the SakeBomb kit and replacing an apparently fine $500 (new) BHR kit, I would be spending around $1200 swapping 2 kits behind a good OEM ignition set.
Im still of the opinion that if the coils pass the test linked above .......... they will work fine for a high boost application . Have you done that Marco ?
Mine are good up to 20psi ........... who else has done that ?
No longevity ... Tons of cash down the drain... I don't understand why peeps keep trying.
I agree as I'm the first one to recommend an REW swap but not many can afford it so turbo renny is the only option for them. Besides you can make it work reliably enough if you know what your doing.
Im still of the opinion that if the coils pass the test linked above .......... they will work fine for a high boost application . Have you done that Marco ?
Mine are good up to 20psi ........... who else has done that ?
My set kept misfiring at about 15psi... I didn't test them with the tester but I sent them to Charles who replaced all 4 coils and wires (thank you!) and I still couldn't get them to work for my application. Not saying they don't work in general but they didn't work out for me, unfortunately. I ultimately sold the set and I've been running OEM coils ever since. I ran OEM coils up to 430rwhp on the dyno @ 17psi with no misfires. Running the same OEM coils at 12psi daily with no issues.
Yes but.... but I sent them to Charles who replaced all 4 coils and wires...
If there are that many coil failures....
If you are having to test a lot of coils and finding many failures perhaps there is a better alternative. I know BHR does not make the coils themselves.
Yes but.... but I sent them to Charles who replaced all 4 coils and wires...
If there are that many coil failures....
If you are having to test a lot of coils and finding many failures perhaps there is a better alternative. I know BHR does not make the coils themselves.
Maybe they would all have failed both times due to some other factor .
What i'm saying is that every time I've tested all the coils by this method and they pass ....................there are no ignition issues (high , low boost or NA)
Maybe they would all have failed both times due to some other factor .
What i'm saying is that every time I've tested all the coils by this method and they pass ....................there are no ignition issues (high , low boost or NA)
I don't disagree that there may be other factors. But it would be nice to determine what those other factors may be. I tried all the typical remediations: sanding the ground points, trying multiple ground points, larger gauge wire, all the various suggested dwell settings. Never could get over 15psi without misfires.
All I'm saying is that there seems to me no denying that they don't work for everyone in all cases. Why is that? I'll keep reiterating that I'm not knocking the product or the vendor. But rather would like to figure it out. Unfortunately, since I sold my set in not in a position to experiment. But then again until I get to a boost level where the OEM coils stop working for me I don't have a whole lot of motivation, except that I don't like unanswered questions
had an experience similar to slash's
Tested the coils.
one was bad
new coil replaced within a couple days. (Thanks Charles)
no more misfire
It's possible that I had a bad coil in the first set and when they were replaced there was another bad coil. Just seems like a lot of bad coils going around. Anyone disagree?
I know BHR does not make the coil. But if all the issues are truly due to bad coils, and there are this many reports of bad coils, then it seems to me another coil option for the product might be a good idea...
09-29-2015, 06:04 PM
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