ShellDude

iTrader: (12)

Glad Andy got a legit table in place. I pushed him on that one a while back.

He must've just released it... ie within the last couple months.

RotaryMachineRx

iTrader: (1)

REALLY??? Mechanical issues? Dropping by 12PSI??

thewird

That's a pretty common lol. Turbo too small and wastegate too weak and completely unrelated to this thread.

thewird

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

The Mercury/AEM coil is better, period, than the GM style coil. Whose GM coil kit you buy, the service level, etc. is not really relevant to that fact. If you want the best possible coil made, that's it. My recommendation is to build your own kit for the best value rather than fork out the $$$ being charged for these kits regardless of which coil you choose.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

After seeing another turbo car with weak D585 coils causing huge issues a couple of days ago I'm more than ever convinced that EVERYONE with these coils on a turbo car needs to test them with an HEI coil tester.

Here is the point : If they test out ok ................... they will be fine for a high boost application , if they don't ................ they won't.


Even NEW coils must be tested before you can have any confidence that they will do the job.

Also : this thread should be in the 'high horsepower upgrades' section !

logalinipoo

brett do you gap your plugs? if so what to? I've seen several things on 7club about them needing to be 0.20 around 500HP. Now I think hp is the wrong measurement here. I think we should be looking at absolute cylinder pressure to compare for our engines.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

The BURs i used to use can't be gapped and were fine . The 6725s I currrently use come pre-gapped at around 0.024" and that's were I leave them . They have also been fine ....................so far .

logalinipoo

lol oops 0.02 not 0.20, cool thanks. I've been trying to decide on plugs and that came up a few times.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

Yeah ... i figured you didn't mean 0.2 lol . After many years of using BUR9s I decided i needed a colder and longer lasting plug . The 6725-10.5s seem to be ideal in both trailing and leading . I did have 11.5s in trailing but they get a little contaminated unless you are tracking . They lasted 20000 kms which is 4x as long as the BURs would last .

logalinipoo

Yeap, I'm thinking of going the evil way with the BR10EIX Solid tip. I'm getting ready to push 10 PSI and still on stock plugs. I think I want something gapable, but those lasting a while I'll think about it. I'm looking for 10 range plugs for now.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

It's weird that guys are making 1500+ HP on these coils in the GM world yet people supposedly have problems with them on Turbo Renesis running "high boost".

Did Gregs ever swap in new coils and verify that the coils were the problem?

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

They are nice and cheap but I was warned by my engine builder not to use those ...............

logalinipoo

That's the hard part, but I've found plenty of good stuff about them also. That's sitting heavy in my head though. they're also the same NGK laser Iridium base brand as the stock plugs. problems happen from time to time and often get fixed.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

I run stock trailing plugs in the leading and trailing and have never had an issue.

logalinipoo

well the 7's are what I'm concerned about and I have a set of good used ones. It's worth a try.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

To use the word "supposedly" in the above sentence is really putting your head in the sand 9k . As far as I'm concerned the issue is a cold hard fact .Thewird has highlighted it in this thread and I'm backing him up to a point ,although I am saying the coils will work if they test out ok.

The guys in 1500+ whp builds are probably very careful to use only OEM coils and therefore don't have problems . It seems very obvious to me that not all D585s are created equal and this is why we are seeing all these issues on boosted cars.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

Have a look at the way the earth electrode is attached . Compare that with stock ngk plugs and the 6725s .

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

I will agree that all D585's are not created equal. I still think the issue is exaggerated. More often than not misfires are a tuning issue and not a parts failure issue. But if someone replaces the coils and then makes more power past 10psi then that will be the proof. All I can go by is what I have seen on the boosted RX-8's that Steve Kan has tuned and all of the ones I know of were running D585's and had no issues.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

I have already seen that happen ........

Here is a list (off the top of my head) of boosted people that i know have had problems with the 585s once they went past a certain boost pressure...............

The Wird ... several cars
Drumbeats
WCS
Slash
Konigs
Gregs

Apart from the above there have not been too many others that have dared venture past 10psi ................... what does that tell you ?

Jedi54

iTrader: (7)

Gregs has replacement coils on the way so we'll soon find out...

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

For his setup yes .... The point i'm trying to make to 9k is that i've already seen this played out . It's not new .

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Well, I trust thewird claims about as far as I can throw him. I have not seen any proof of him making any significant power out of a Renesis, let alone above 10psi. I realize he can tune the FD's, I have followed him on rx7club for years. Maybe those 20 turbo guys he tuned who are making good power can post up and share their setups. But it sounds to me like tuner excuses honestly.

I don't recall Konigs issue being boost related, he just had a bad coil(s) IIRC. I don't think anyone expects the D585 coil to be failure free or problem free, but I don't see that being the case on any significant scale. And there are surely better coils but we have to see results to see just how much better. And until Gregs gets new coils in an then makes improvements above 10psi you won't really know if it was coil related or not.

I don't recall where WCS ended up, I didn't think his car was even running. If slash has had better luck with stock coils then it is what it is, it's just odd to me. I have never heard of drumbeats, I am unfamiliar with his setup.

But again I can only go by what I have seen in person and both Sifu and I had misfire issues when we went for tuning and those issues were strictly tune related in my case and spark plug related (changed on the dyno) in Sifu's case. A couple of others have been tuned since then with BHR coils without any coil issues but they are not running above 10psi so we shall see when they do. We have one Pettit SC guy, Kan has tuned quite a few of those, I am interested to see what he puts down but with a new engine and rebuilt kit I expect similar to what the others have made. I am running up to 13psi (yes I know it's dangerous) right now with no issues, I will report if I have any coil related issues.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

Let me expand some .....

The Wird ... I have had lots of contact with him and know he is straight up guy .... no reason for him to make anything up here !
Drumbeats .... local guy to me so i got to see it first hand . Misfires on BHR setup but only after we raised boost, found one coil failed HEI test , Charles replaced it ..... all good afterwards.
WCS .... gave up on 585s and went to stock after issues ... forget the details
Slash ....gave up on 585s after trying many times to sort it out . went back to stock and all good.
Konigs....heaps of problems on BHR ignition , swapped out all 4 coils and ... all good . He runs up to 9psi BTW and has the quickest stock Greddy setup around. So I'm pretty sure his issues were boost related .
Gregs ....Good up to 8psi at 11.0 AFRs then fell flat once we went over that .... yet to see if coils will fix .

There are others I've dealt with over the years that we have had to replace the coils on but I can't remember who they were.

slash128

Brettus, what did these cars run boost-wise? Would be curious to know if we all ran into issues at the about the same. The tipping point for me was 14-15psi...

9k, I don't have any first hand info on the other cars but I am still running stock coils. To recap my experience: I ran 17psi with ZERO misfires hitting over 230% load, pegging the MAF at 4.99V and dyno'ed 430RWHP all on the STOCK style (eBay no less) coils until I popped the motor last summer. I never could get that far with the 585 coils, they always pooped out by 14-15psi, if not sooner. I still maintain: if it were a tuning issue then why would the stock coils run just fine with the only changes to the tune being stock dwell vs increased dwell for the 585s?

I've been slowly turning the boost back up over the last year, currently running 14-15psi peak. Peak load is currently hitting over 225%. MAF is hitting 4.79V. Got a little timing pulled in this log, which I adjusted for but haven't taken a new log yet. Will be adding W/M this winter before I go higher. Constantly spinning 275 tires in 2nd gear, sometimes third. Point is there is no doubt I have been putting down some decent power for the last two years on the STOCK coils with ABSOLUTELY no misfires. If people want to spend money on other coils that is fine by me, I personally have not seen a need for other coils up to the limit of the MAF, at which point a number of changes will need to be addressed. How many other Renesis cars are running at the same boost/load levels? Perhaps we need a larger sample size. If my situation is a fluke so be it

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

The other cars I personally dealt with (Drum beats, Konigs and Gregs ) were around 8-9 psi before the issue became apparent so much less than yours .
I'm sure there are other factors that influence that however .... like spark plug gap/condition , lead resistance , AFR etc etc

The main reason I still support these coils at all is because I have them in my setup and have run them up to 20psi with no misfires.