rx8thunder

Any suggestions on place to go? Thx

prospectjtaz

iTrader: (1)

Krown is highly spoken of, I think their GTA thou. I would just avoid all that gunk, and get the module that Leesha and Kaffka have.

Its one of the electronic modules that send a current through the body to repel the corrosion chemical/electron process.

Does it work? Who knows, but you got a lifetime warranty on it, that you can claim on.

Call Al, he could set it up for you.

eug

iTrader: (2)

We like Krown. They are a national company so it shouldn't be hard to find a place near you. It's not a thick oily goo nor a messy permanent undercoat, and I like that it permeates into everything. It will still drip a bit the first day or two, so be careful on a nice driveway. The place I went to was quite reasonable in terms of drilling the least holes, and they were be able to maximize the use of the RX8's pre-existing plugs.

Thumper3322

I was wondering this myself, who up here in Can. gets this done. I am not to fond of anyone drilling holes in my car.

I had it done on my old car and I swear the guy dented my side panel out from the inside with his rod, which turned into a small rust spot.

Krown is highly respected tho.

01Racing

How about us?? We use Sym-tech and offer either electronic or the wax/oil based products!

rx8thunder

Al, what's the the adv and dis adv of the electronic vs wax/oil solutions? Perhaps I can come by when we do the 4.77 <hint hint>

phobi

mmm...yea i'm very interested in what Al has to say...will probably be out this winter...so was thinking of doing krown (my dad swears by it as does our mint 97' rust-less caravan) but if there are better alternatives that would be great!

prospectjtaz

iTrader: (1)

LIke I said in the second post, if you are planning or rust proofing go with the module from Al, its just cleaner, no holes being drilled into the body, and easier to work underneath the car, since none of that coating is on the underbody.

I can probably get us a group deal for the module from another vendor with install, but considering how great Scarborough Mazda and Al has been to the 8 forum, I'm sure he can get yall a great price.

Thumper3322

More info plz!! and price on each.

01Racing

Well this is all opinion of course, but all that matters is the warranty. If a reputible company is willing to give you a guarantee saying it wont rust and they willing to pay for it if it does thats all that matters to me. The electronic is much neater and much more environmentally friendly than the "goop". It also makes the car much easier to work on than gooping it!

Thumper3322

Is there more information on the electronic? Website or something. I have never heard of it before. Al which one do you recommend, which one in the long run is the best for the car? How much for the electronic? The 'goop' is usually around $100 depending on the place.

rx8thunder

^ Found this...

It has been known for over 100 years that electricity plays a large part in most forms of corrosion and it is also known that electricity can be used to prevent corrosion. Some of the first examples of this involved several zinc blocks being fixed in electrical contact with copper sheeting on boats. The corrosion of the more reactive metal (zinc) generates an excess of electrons that travel to the less reactive metal (copper) where these electrons react with the air forming the second half of the reaction. Essentially, what happens is the less reactive metal doesn’t corrode because it is instead supplying the more reactive metal with the oxygen it needs to corrode. This practise of using sacrificial anodes to prevent corrosion became known as cathodic protection.

ERPS takes advantage of a relatively recent development in the field of corrosion prevention. The key to the ERPS System is that the prevention process works by turning the entire car into one half of a capacitor. By charging the Coupler, a small conductive plate placed onto the paintwork, up to a high positive voltage relative to the car, high concentrations of electrons become attracted to the coupler on the underside of the paint. This high concentration of electrons over time causes the whole car to become covered by a layer of electrons that are held static by the paintwork preventing the charge from leaking away. This is similar to the way a magnet placed on steel will magnetise the surrounding area. Electrostatic experiments from over two hundred years ago showed that if a metal and an insulator or dielectric are in contact then the two can hold opposing charges for several months. With the Capacitive Coupling system the paint takes the role of the dielectric, preventing the charge induced by the coupler from leaking away, allowing the charge to be spread throughout the car.

The layer of electrons on the surface of the metal prevents corrosion by lowering the metals voltage potential. This lower voltage potential means the metal becomes less reactive and therefore less likely to corrode. Unlike cathodic protection, the Capacitive Coupling system is almost completely static and therefore no significant currents are required to prevent corrosion. And although the system relies on static electricity, the voltage stored on the paint is equal to and opposite of the voltage stored on the metal surface, so the combined voltage of the system will never discharge in a spark.

The Capacitive Coupling system is dependent on a dielectric coating of some sort to be effective. In most cases this will be paint. Where metal surfaces are left bare there will be a surface coating of ferric oxide form, as until this coating occurs no charge can hold on the metal surface. The ferric oxide is an insulator and therefore acts as a dielectric. The System will not prevent rust stains forming on porous paint because the porous paint is not an adequate dielectric, and so a layer of oxidation forms that will tend to run after it has rained, but if left this will not proceed to rust perforation. Still, rust stains are unsightly so in most cases we would recommend a paint sealant or good quality polish to seal the paint and eliminate the problem.

As can be seen from the above paragraphs, a good quality coating is essential to maximise the protection and prevention offered by the electronic system. Most vehicles have excellent exterior paintwork and adequate interior coverage to ensure effective electronic protection.

With older vehicles, the paint becomes thin and porous as mentioned above and so the harmful layers of salt, acid and moisture are allowed through to the metal beneath. With a vehicle of this description the paint must be sealed to get the full effect of the ERPS unit.

A reply to this...

As an anecdotal story, I was involved with an engineering firm ( some almost 20 years ago ) that was enlisted to produce such a device. Several different prototypes were produced, using different technologies, and were given to the companiy that hired the firm. After testing, the government branch of consumer and commercial affairs became involved over complaints of poor/no results, and legal actions were bandied about. The product never went to market.

The technology can work, but the environment in which a vehicle exists works faster to produce rust than the methods used to prevent the end result, rust. It is interesting to note that, in order for the system to work well, the maintenance required ( preventing exposed metal, keeping the paint intact, etc, ) will prevent rust on its own, without adding any electronics into the mix. Sorta catch 22 if you ask me.

Not looking for an argument, just pointing out that this method has been tried on and off for many years, and never took off because of the poor results obtained. The only application that seems to get any effort is in the salt water marine field, on oil rigs and simlar large ocean going structures

rx8thunder

After doing some more reading on the electronic option, I am going to pass. Don't trust it.

I will stick to the more traditional under coating method. Is there one that is effective that doesn't require holes to be drilled?

Kafka

"I was involved with an engineering firm ( some almost 20 years ago ) that was enlisted to produce such a device. "

That 20 years ago..maybe it works better now?

rx8thunder

^ Perhaps but I read too many negative opinions about the technology from a variety of sources to trust it...

qtwre

iTrader: (1)

I think the point with the module is though it may not work (i don't see how it could), if the company provides a rust warranty for using it, that's what you're paying for.

I thought you could only get those modules when your car is new though. Surely they won't warranty against rust on a 4 year old car just for putting it on.

01Racing

The $100.00 rustproofing is not as it appears. 1st it seems to be about $130-150 from the places I have called locally if you want a warranty. You have to pay every year, which gets real expensive real quick. So for a ten year warranty you would pay around $1469.00 with taxes, and I would bet the guy you dealt with originally isnt there at the end. For the same thing you can pay between $399 - $675 and only have to apply it once when we sell it. Keep in mind if you miss a year with the aftermarket your warranty is void. If you want more info call me directly at the dealership 416-752-0970 ext 229

rx8thunder

^ So Al, it doesn't matter how old the car is? Why the price range? Are there variables to the pricing equation and what would they be?

01Racing

The age and condition of the vehicle matter on the length of warranty the company would provide. I dont really want to get into specific pricing on the forum because I dont want to get grief from other dealers if our pricing is less than theirs. You can pm me or email etc if you want to get into those numbers!

rx8thunder

Spoke to Al about all of the angles on this one and have decided to go with electronic unit which will protect me for at least 6 years or they will fix it.

Thumper3322

So what changed your mind? Why did you pick the electronic over the spray?

Kafka

electronic unit which will protect me for at least 6 years or they will fix it.

beers

prospectjtaz

iTrader: (1)

If I winter drove th car I would,

One, its cheaper in the long run
Two, its cleaner, easier to work under the car
Three, avoids drilling holes into the chassis.

Thumper3322

I got that thx!! I should have been more specific, why is one better than the other? You didn't like the electronic unit and then you talked to Al and changed your mind? There has to be more than just the above?

6 year warranty is very good agree!! but basically since the car by then would be 10 years old (since it's a '04), don't most new cars come with a 10 year warranty on their paint/body/rust? I know my old car did, but I still got it sprayed. So in turn they are guaranteeing something that shouldn't rust out anyway?

Footman

iTrader: (2)

The factory warranty covers rust on perforations (holes), but not surface rust...

If this electronic unit will gaurantee SURFACE RUST for 6 years, then it maybe worth it. Al, does it?