Victoria Day Lapping at Mosport
05-24-2007, 04:32 PM
#26
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Rockstar - Stay away from FI, and your engine should be fine.
Before going with any FI setup, I'd like to see it live through some 100% throttle applications.
IF you look at the 24hr speed/distance records that the RX8's ran a couple years ago, it is testament to the strength of the renesis.
For street use FI would not be an issue.
Why doesn't Mazda release an FI RX8? I believe the 7's were a warranty nightmare for them.
On the street, how often are you at 100% throttle? Only 10% of the time possibly? Even on tight 2nd gear twisty roads, any more than 4-5 seconds at a time with 100% throttle and you are risking serious speeding violations.
Think about a 3rd gear passing maneuver in an 80 zone - within 5 seconds you will be cresting 120 - or 40 over the limit - 50 over the limit and you are risking 5 pts, and automatic suspension.
For time-attack style lapping sessions what point is there in adding 100hp?
The way you can look at the challenge is the speedsource is capable of 1:35 with similar tires, and not much more HP (debatable if a standalone ECU is in use).
7 seconds won't be made up with 30HP, but driving and suspension mods.
Is the lack of HP detracting you from having fun?
IF you were racing and weren't competitive - sure - go for it, AFTER all the other options are exhausted.
That all being said - an extra 200-300 HP would be AWESOME
Before going with any FI setup, I'd like to see it live through some 100% throttle applications.
IF you look at the 24hr speed/distance records that the RX8's ran a couple years ago, it is testament to the strength of the renesis.
For street use FI would not be an issue.
Why doesn't Mazda release an FI RX8? I believe the 7's were a warranty nightmare for them.
On the street, how often are you at 100% throttle? Only 10% of the time possibly? Even on tight 2nd gear twisty roads, any more than 4-5 seconds at a time with 100% throttle and you are risking serious speeding violations.
Think about a 3rd gear passing maneuver in an 80 zone - within 5 seconds you will be cresting 120 - or 40 over the limit - 50 over the limit and you are risking 5 pts, and automatic suspension.
For time-attack style lapping sessions what point is there in adding 100hp?
The way you can look at the challenge is the speedsource is capable of 1:35 with similar tires, and not much more HP (debatable if a standalone ECU is in use).
7 seconds won't be made up with 30HP, but driving and suspension mods.
Is the lack of HP detracting you from having fun?
IF you were racing and weren't competitive - sure - go for it, AFTER all the other options are exhausted.
That all being said - an extra 200-300 HP would be AWESOME
I agree with you!!! It'd be nice to have a turbo set-up with the extra ponies, however, I'm going to stick with the NA and getting the test-pipe and RB flush!!
I'd think the car can go a lot more, it's just me being used to the car, and never mind the Speedsource RX8 now that's running 20B, even Kensai told me when they were running just the 13B at ST class, there's hardly many cars catching up with them.
I believe this is a good car and obviously it's gonna have the pros and cons. After this lapping day it really tells me it's about the balance of the car NOT necessary all the power. That's why I'd think just adding the testpipe and PCM Flush I'll be happy!!! FOR NOW AT LEAST!! lol
05-25-2007, 09:07 AM
#27
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Rockstar,
Once you get the cage in there, are you going to be giving "E" ticket rides for passengers?
I'm saving my pennies for the next Mosport day.
What is great about a NA setup is the throttle response. Turbo, Supercharger, whatever - it just isn't as pure.
Most of the top rated cars are NA. (excluding rally)
Another great thing about not messing much with the engine is you get to drive home at the end of the day.
Once you get the cage in there, are you going to be giving "E" ticket rides for passengers?
I'm saving my pennies for the next Mosport day.
What is great about a NA setup is the throttle response. Turbo, Supercharger, whatever - it just isn't as pure.
Most of the top rated cars are NA. (excluding rally)
Another great thing about not messing much with the engine is you get to drive home at the end of the day.
05-25-2007, 10:16 AM
#28
I am The One!
The only thing that really bothers me about NA engines is the slow sensation of acceleration.
You know the feeling when you're taxiing down the runway in a plane, and then he hits full throttle! That's the way turbo cars feel. It's just a continuous delivery of acceleration.
It's what really bothered me when I got to drive the F355 around Mosport. You know you're in a historic marquee... but the car didn't deliver power the same way my FD did. It really bothered me. I was expecting more...
Once you experience boost, it's hard to get into an NA car and feel fast....
Unless of course you get a ride in an Enzo or a Carerra GT..
You know the feeling when you're taxiing down the runway in a plane, and then he hits full throttle! That's the way turbo cars feel. It's just a continuous delivery of acceleration.
It's what really bothered me when I got to drive the F355 around Mosport. You know you're in a historic marquee... but the car didn't deliver power the same way my FD did. It really bothered me. I was expecting more...
Once you experience boost, it's hard to get into an NA car and feel fast....
Unless of course you get a ride in an Enzo or a Carerra GT..
05-25-2007, 01:58 PM
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Well, both of you have great points!!
Here's my take, I had an STi that cost me 3 engines to keep the car on the track.. and the power comparing the 8 to STis is just not even close when I was riding with 911s at the straight.
However, if we want to add force induction to a NA car, it'll just never be the same as it was from the factory.
Power is a great thing to have, I wish Mazda had produced the 8 like the FDs no doubt to continue on the name of the legend. But since I bought an 8 and it comes NA, I'm just gonna stick with it and get the most outta it. Untill 2011 Mazda comes out with a newer version of the 8 that has more than 320HP...
Plus on top of it, I don't think that I'm driving the full potential out of the car so in the mean time I'll save some money and drink more beers!! lol
Here's my take, I had an STi that cost me 3 engines to keep the car on the track.. and the power comparing the 8 to STis is just not even close when I was riding with 911s at the straight.
However, if we want to add force induction to a NA car, it'll just never be the same as it was from the factory.
Power is a great thing to have, I wish Mazda had produced the 8 like the FDs no doubt to continue on the name of the legend. But since I bought an 8 and it comes NA, I'm just gonna stick with it and get the most outta it. Untill 2011 Mazda comes out with a newer version of the 8 that has more than 320HP...
Plus on top of it, I don't think that I'm driving the full potential out of the car so in the mean time I'll save some money and drink more beers!! lol
05-25-2007, 03:08 PM
#30
I am The One!
Oh yeah, no doubt about that.
If the car came from the factory NA, then you really shouldn't try to charge it.... but in the case of the rotary, chargering really improves the power...
In the 8's case, I wouldn't try it... not if you want the reliability to stay the same. Chargering puts stress on components. Especially if the car came from the factory already stressed as it is.
I would definitely try to improve the driving before messing with the power. As you said, you use to have an STi... look how many engines you went through... I think driving the 8 at 10/10th's will be more rewarding instead of adding power.
If the car came from the factory NA, then you really shouldn't try to charge it.... but in the case of the rotary, chargering really improves the power...
In the 8's case, I wouldn't try it... not if you want the reliability to stay the same. Chargering puts stress on components. Especially if the car came from the factory already stressed as it is.
I would definitely try to improve the driving before messing with the power. As you said, you use to have an STi... look how many engines you went through... I think driving the 8 at 10/10th's will be more rewarding instead of adding power.
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