What to do, what to do... (warning very long)
08-28-2003, 11:29 PM
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so close, I can feel it
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What to do, what to do... (warning very long)
Hi all, please bear with me on this lo-o-o-ng diatribe.
Like many of you, I've been waiting for what seems an eternity for my RX-8. My dealer just called me to let me know that my 8 is now in Montreal therefore it should be in Ottawa sometime next week. However, in order for me to qualify for the Mazda deal I need to sign a contract by tomorrow. My dilemma... I haven't had the pleasure of test driving an 8 yet. I'm 3,000 KM away and I won't be back for another couple of weeks so can't test drive it until then. In other words if I wait until I get back, I won't get the deal. The dealer doesn't want to wait until I get back in case I don't take the car, 'cause he wants to be able to offer the Mazda offer to the next guy in line. I think that it's pretty good of him since he doesn't have to do this. If I refuse to take the car, the Mazda Offer technically is void for this car. I can also understand why they would prefer not waiting close to 3 weeks for me to get back just to see if I want it. They will wait if I insist, which is again a nice surprise. Hmm, I saw a yellow 8 sitting on a dealer's lot here in Santa Fe, maybe they will let me test drive this car.
Why the hesitation, you ask? Do I not think that this is the best car for my needs? Well yes and no. It has a most features that I want in a car (of those that are available to me) and a couple of things that I really have a problem with. The biggest is not the missing HP but the poor MPG that other members of this forum are posting even when driven conservatively. There seems to be many with very poor MPG and other with marginal results. I haven't seen too many reporting the 13L/km hwy that Gordon and Wing are getting while on the open highway but 12 L/km isn't all that great to begin with. It's not the cost of the fuel (however with prices of 91+ at close to $1/L even I say ouch) but I try to be as environmentally conscious as possible with all my purchasing decisions. Driving a small car is a step in the right direction but this is almost nullified by the at best 13+L/100km . Some say that it is the price to pay for driving a sports car, however there are several faster sport cars with better fuel consumption and many more with worse but I digress. Performance is a significant variable in purchasing this car, yes you can get high(ish) performance if you drop clutch at 5k+ but let's be honest, I can't believe that Mazda says that it is how it's supposed to be driven. At a more normal WOT take off, performance then becomes so-so off the line. Now I would be very willing to lose some performance due to flexing for say folding rear seats but in this case the loss is simply due to lower output because I'm not willing to damage the car to get it. Other issues include the fact that it is a 1st year car ie there are already a couple of disturbing reports of some cars with problems and the fact that the basic warranty is only 3 years. Yes I could buy extended warranty but that makes the total price of the car that much more costly. Combined with the fact that it is only 2 months into release so Mazda is not offering any real incentives ie low finance or lease making the total price a lot higher and thus the G35c which has a significantly higher purchase price actually cost nearly the same. The Z could probably be close as well but it doesn't turn my crank. The unanswered questions about why the 4 weeks delay at port, why the missing hp etc also are a negative in the whole equation.
Price vs compromise is the reason I didn't jump on the TSX when it came out. I wasn't willing to pay $35,000 for its various compromises. If the car would have been initially priced at $32k-33k, I would have been driving one now. By the time the selling prices dropped to $32k, the RX-8 was announced at $37k with what appeared to be few compromises. Now I find it just as difficult to pay $56k (tax & interest) for a car with the current specs of the 8 without at least test driving the thing.
I hate having to make a decision under pressure. The smart thing to do would be to wait until next spring, the cars will be more plentiful and I would likely get $2k off MSRP and better financing terms with most of the issues having a chance to come to a boil. But my heart says go for it now. Sigh!
I'm going to sleep on it then go over to the local Santa Fe dealer to see if I can test drive one, and read what you guys have to say and then call the dealer to let him know of my decision.
Cheers,
PS please don't rehash the power is the same, I haven't test driven the car yet so I'm having to base my purchase on paper specs. Over all power is probably more then enough for me but the lower HP is still a part of the equation. It can be solved by throwing more money at it but then the price thing come into even more prominence.
Like many of you, I've been waiting for what seems an eternity for my RX-8. My dealer just called me to let me know that my 8 is now in Montreal therefore it should be in Ottawa sometime next week. However, in order for me to qualify for the Mazda deal I need to sign a contract by tomorrow. My dilemma... I haven't had the pleasure of test driving an 8 yet. I'm 3,000 KM away and I won't be back for another couple of weeks so can't test drive it until then. In other words if I wait until I get back, I won't get the deal. The dealer doesn't want to wait until I get back in case I don't take the car, 'cause he wants to be able to offer the Mazda offer to the next guy in line. I think that it's pretty good of him since he doesn't have to do this. If I refuse to take the car, the Mazda Offer technically is void for this car. I can also understand why they would prefer not waiting close to 3 weeks for me to get back just to see if I want it. They will wait if I insist, which is again a nice surprise. Hmm, I saw a yellow 8 sitting on a dealer's lot here in Santa Fe, maybe they will let me test drive this car.
Why the hesitation, you ask? Do I not think that this is the best car for my needs? Well yes and no. It has a most features that I want in a car (of those that are available to me) and a couple of things that I really have a problem with. The biggest is not the missing HP but the poor MPG that other members of this forum are posting even when driven conservatively. There seems to be many with very poor MPG and other with marginal results. I haven't seen too many reporting the 13L/km hwy that Gordon and Wing are getting while on the open highway but 12 L/km isn't all that great to begin with. It's not the cost of the fuel (however with prices of 91+ at close to $1/L even I say ouch) but I try to be as environmentally conscious as possible with all my purchasing decisions. Driving a small car is a step in the right direction but this is almost nullified by the at best 13+L/100km . Some say that it is the price to pay for driving a sports car, however there are several faster sport cars with better fuel consumption and many more with worse but I digress. Performance is a significant variable in purchasing this car, yes you can get high(ish) performance if you drop clutch at 5k+ but let's be honest, I can't believe that Mazda says that it is how it's supposed to be driven. At a more normal WOT take off, performance then becomes so-so off the line. Now I would be very willing to lose some performance due to flexing for say folding rear seats but in this case the loss is simply due to lower output because I'm not willing to damage the car to get it. Other issues include the fact that it is a 1st year car ie there are already a couple of disturbing reports of some cars with problems and the fact that the basic warranty is only 3 years. Yes I could buy extended warranty but that makes the total price of the car that much more costly. Combined with the fact that it is only 2 months into release so Mazda is not offering any real incentives ie low finance or lease making the total price a lot higher and thus the G35c which has a significantly higher purchase price actually cost nearly the same. The Z could probably be close as well but it doesn't turn my crank. The unanswered questions about why the 4 weeks delay at port, why the missing hp etc also are a negative in the whole equation.
Price vs compromise is the reason I didn't jump on the TSX when it came out. I wasn't willing to pay $35,000 for its various compromises. If the car would have been initially priced at $32k-33k, I would have been driving one now. By the time the selling prices dropped to $32k, the RX-8 was announced at $37k with what appeared to be few compromises. Now I find it just as difficult to pay $56k (tax & interest) for a car with the current specs of the 8 without at least test driving the thing.
I hate having to make a decision under pressure. The smart thing to do would be to wait until next spring, the cars will be more plentiful and I would likely get $2k off MSRP and better financing terms with most of the issues having a chance to come to a boil. But my heart says go for it now. Sigh!
I'm going to sleep on it then go over to the local Santa Fe dealer to see if I can test drive one, and read what you guys have to say and then call the dealer to let him know of my decision.
Cheers,
PS please don't rehash the power is the same, I haven't test driven the car yet so I'm having to base my purchase on paper specs. Over all power is probably more then enough for me but the lower HP is still a part of the equation. It can be solved by throwing more money at it but then the price thing come into even more prominence.
08-29-2003, 12:15 AM
#2
Hi Mac
When we (consumers) purchase a vehicle, we need to weigh the decission carefully, comparing and evaluating all the cars in our wish/want list.
The decission to buy an RX-8 or any other sports car has to be one you make on your own. Even if 1000's write to you and tell you that the 8 is a great buy, it still might not be the right one for you. What I would like to share with you is the reason why I am purchasing an RX-8.
Back in 83, I purchased an RX-7, GX version. It had everything except leather and a/c. I lived in Northern Ontario at the time.
I truly fell in love with that car and the feeling I got everytime I drove it. Back then, the rotary engine was more rare then today, and it too came with problems, one of which was poor gas mileage. If my memory serves me well, it was even worse then what the 8 is getting, but back then gas was under 30 cents a litre, so you take the good with the bad.
I can remember when I drove my 7, the looks people gave me, the kids and adults that would ask me how I liked the car, or what kind of performance I got. I was young back then, and the chicks really liked the car too :D :D . I even used this cheesy line on a girl once that went something like this " Want to see my wankel" and it worked LOL
I pampered that car, and after owning it for 6 years, I sold it to move up to a sedan (make room for the wife and expecting baby) "Wankel line worked too well !!"
I sold that car for 5000 less then I purchased it for and I have this feeling that the RX-8 will fair the same, provided that you take care of the car and don't let it get any rust on it.
So, because I have always loved the rotary engine, the feeling and memories that my 7 gave me and the fact that i was always treated well when getting servicing, including the other Mazda's I have owned. I will be a future 8 owner.
Good luck on your purchase and let us know what you decide, good or bad.
When we (consumers) purchase a vehicle, we need to weigh the decission carefully, comparing and evaluating all the cars in our wish/want list.
The decission to buy an RX-8 or any other sports car has to be one you make on your own. Even if 1000's write to you and tell you that the 8 is a great buy, it still might not be the right one for you. What I would like to share with you is the reason why I am purchasing an RX-8.
Back in 83, I purchased an RX-7, GX version. It had everything except leather and a/c. I lived in Northern Ontario at the time.
I truly fell in love with that car and the feeling I got everytime I drove it. Back then, the rotary engine was more rare then today, and it too came with problems, one of which was poor gas mileage. If my memory serves me well, it was even worse then what the 8 is getting, but back then gas was under 30 cents a litre, so you take the good with the bad.
I can remember when I drove my 7, the looks people gave me, the kids and adults that would ask me how I liked the car, or what kind of performance I got. I was young back then, and the chicks really liked the car too :D :D . I even used this cheesy line on a girl once that went something like this " Want to see my wankel" and it worked LOL
I pampered that car, and after owning it for 6 years, I sold it to move up to a sedan (make room for the wife and expecting baby) "Wankel line worked too well !!"
I sold that car for 5000 less then I purchased it for and I have this feeling that the RX-8 will fair the same, provided that you take care of the car and don't let it get any rust on it.
So, because I have always loved the rotary engine, the feeling and memories that my 7 gave me and the fact that i was always treated well when getting servicing, including the other Mazda's I have owned. I will be a future 8 owner.
Good luck on your purchase and let us know what you decide, good or bad.
Last edited by Evolv; 08-29-2003 at 12:19 AM.
08-29-2003, 02:25 AM
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Hey Evolv,
Thanks for your input, it is appreciate. The post was mostly for myself. I find that by putting things down in writting I get to look at my reasoning from a different perspective. It often give me clues as to what is the bottom line. Sometime a stranger will point out the obvious.
I think my real problem is that I feel that I'm wimping out on my long held views about cars. I used to think that sports cars were an expensive (read over $30k) status symbol, bad for the environment (too much gas and polute more), poor resale value and were impractical ie 2 seater with no usuable trunk. When the Miata came out it almost changed my views (under 30K, good fuel economy, fun to drive) but it still wasn't practical. My current car was $21K new, now 4.5 years later sells for $16k, good on gas, can carry an amazing amount of stuff with the back seat down (however those back seats are only good for people who are shorter then 5'8). Although it isn't a sports car, it is sporty (ish). All in all it was a very reasonable purchase. The 8 on the other hand still fits into the sports car description, a status symbol, expensive, a gas guzzler, although practical, a liftback with folding rear seat would be much more practical
It does look very unique (big plus in my books) and sporty.
This said it's significantly more $ then I what I told myself I wanted to spend (not more then $30k). I can afford the 8, yet somehow it feels wrong that I'm not respecting my spending limit. The fact that I'm considering over spending my limit on a car that I haven't even test driven is even worse. Financialy it would make a lot more $ sense to get the car next spring (chance to test drive the car, lower total cost, know the potential problems).
Changing my mind and deciding to spend more then $30k is one thing but what I find it a little tougher to swallow is buying a gas guzzler when I talk so much about environmental responsibilities.
The heart says, hey it's practical (ish), it hot, unique and sporty. F*ck the test drive, throw caution to the wind and buy it already, you know you want it :D
In the end, like you said it all boils down to personal decisions.
Thanks for your input, it is appreciate. The post was mostly for myself. I find that by putting things down in writting I get to look at my reasoning from a different perspective. It often give me clues as to what is the bottom line. Sometime a stranger will point out the obvious.
I think my real problem is that I feel that I'm wimping out on my long held views about cars. I used to think that sports cars were an expensive (read over $30k) status symbol, bad for the environment (too much gas and polute more), poor resale value and were impractical ie 2 seater with no usuable trunk. When the Miata came out it almost changed my views (under 30K, good fuel economy, fun to drive) but it still wasn't practical. My current car was $21K new, now 4.5 years later sells for $16k, good on gas, can carry an amazing amount of stuff with the back seat down (however those back seats are only good for people who are shorter then 5'8). Although it isn't a sports car, it is sporty (ish). All in all it was a very reasonable purchase. The 8 on the other hand still fits into the sports car description, a status symbol, expensive, a gas guzzler, although practical, a liftback with folding rear seat would be much more practical
It does look very unique (big plus in my books) and sporty.This said it's significantly more $ then I what I told myself I wanted to spend (not more then $30k). I can afford the 8, yet somehow it feels wrong that I'm not respecting my spending limit. The fact that I'm considering over spending my limit on a car that I haven't even test driven is even worse. Financialy it would make a lot more $ sense to get the car next spring (chance to test drive the car, lower total cost, know the potential problems).
Changing my mind and deciding to spend more then $30k is one thing but what I find it a little tougher to swallow is buying a gas guzzler when I talk so much about environmental responsibilities.
The heart says, hey it's practical (ish), it hot, unique and sporty. F*ck the test drive, throw caution to the wind and buy it already, you know you want it :D
In the end, like you said it all boils down to personal decisions.
08-29-2003, 06:39 AM
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Hi Mac,
I know what you mean when you say "... spending my limit on a car that I haven't even test driven". For me that was almost the case (except that it respected my spending limit).
For my last car, and Audi TT, without knowing the price, I imposed myself a limit of 49995$... guess what, when I went to the dealer, it was exactly the selling price (+ taxes ) I never test drove it, had to wait three months for my car... I loved the car but found it lack power a bit... so I spent close to 1000$ US for a chip (new ECU + chip) and 650$ US for a new muffler. Now I was closer to what I was looking for... but still had to spend 1650$ US (2300$ Cnd).
For my current car, an RX-8, I read every reviews available, search the web, read the forum etc... this time I fixed the limit to 40000$... and surprise, that's the selling price... so I ordered one, waited for 5 months.
I love the car, but once again, I'm looking for a little bit more power and fuel consumption is awfull (for my driving style). Sure is cool to be the first person in the city to own a brand new model... but there is a price to pay for that.
Luckily for me, there is a solution... the buyback... I might use it to rethink my choice, wait for the winter to pass and have a look at the brand new 2004 cars.
Mazda offered me a "free" test drive (for two months); so if I decide to take the buyback, I'll be able to test drive other cars and compare it to the 8.
The car is great... and might even buy another one... but this time I'll be sure that the 8 is "my" car... There will be more 8s next spring, keep your Integra for the winter then after test driving one, get an 8 for spring:D ... enjoying the summer!
The 500$ (cnd) and free service (a few hundred dollars... even if Mazda is talking more about 1200$???!? What's the cost of 6 oil changes + some plugs?) shouldn't justify your "rush"... especially if you're unsure of your choice right now. Who knows, you might get next year 0% financing (ok I'm dreaming )
Good luck
p.s. sorry for the poor english... being french canadian... you know
:p
I know what you mean when you say "... spending my limit on a car that I haven't even test driven". For me that was almost the case (except that it respected my spending limit).
For my last car, and Audi TT, without knowing the price, I imposed myself a limit of 49995$... guess what, when I went to the dealer, it was exactly the selling price (+ taxes
) I never test drove it, had to wait three months for my car... I loved the car but found it lack power a bit... so I spent close to 1000$ US for a chip (new ECU + chip) and 650$ US for a new muffler. Now I was closer to what I was looking for... but still had to spend 1650$ US (2300$ Cnd).For my current car, an RX-8, I read every reviews available, search the web, read the forum etc... this time I fixed the limit to 40000$... and surprise, that's the selling price... so I ordered one, waited for 5 months.
I love the car, but once again, I'm looking for a little bit more power and fuel consumption is awfull (for my driving style). Sure is cool to be the first person in the city to own a brand new model... but there is a price to pay for that.
Luckily for me, there is a solution... the buyback... I might use it to rethink my choice, wait for the winter to pass and have a look at the brand new 2004 cars.
Mazda offered me a "free" test drive (for two months); so if I decide to take the buyback, I'll be able to test drive other cars and compare it to the 8.
The car is great... and might even buy another one... but this time I'll be sure that the 8 is "my" car... There will be more 8s next spring, keep your Integra for the winter then after test driving one, get an 8 for spring:D ... enjoying the summer!
The 500$ (cnd) and free service (a few hundred dollars... even if Mazda is talking more about 1200$???!? What's the cost of 6 oil changes + some plugs?) shouldn't justify your "rush"... especially if you're unsure of your choice right now. Who knows, you might get next year 0% financing (ok I'm dreaming
)Good luck
p.s. sorry for the poor english... being french canadian... you know
:p
08-29-2003, 07:42 AM
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My opinion, sign without test driving, to get the deal. And if you don't like the ride, send it back before the dead line :p . That's what I would do, Worst case scenario you drive the car a bit, and you get your money back....
08-29-2003, 07:47 AM
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Hmmm interesting thread.
Like others have said though it's totally your decision.
Reason jumped into it was I HATED my current car (tiburon) and the insurance rate was draining me.
Oh and I love having a hot car
.
I know you LOVE this car, but I don't know enough about your lifestyle to tell you to go buy it. I understand the practicality of the hatchback it soooo usefull, I already purchased 1 small item at wal-mart I had to place in the backseat because it didn't fit in the trunk.
About gas mileage, I guess it's all in how you drive, my last tank was 11.7L/100Km this was CITY driving not highway cruise. I will be going to montreal this weekend so I'll get a better idea of highway mileage.
If you can wait for spring I would I suppose, I didn't want to wait because I would have never got rid of my lease, your not in a lease so you don't have this problem.
As far as the G35c, I highly doubt that the payments would be even close, the car starts at $50K That's 57.5 after taxes I doubt you would get super low rates on the G35c although I could be wrong.
Like others have said though it's totally your decision.
Reason jumped into it was I HATED my current car (tiburon) and the insurance rate was draining me.
Oh and I love having a hot car
.I know you LOVE this car, but I don't know enough about your lifestyle to tell you to go buy it. I understand the practicality of the hatchback it soooo usefull, I already purchased 1 small item at wal-mart I had to place in the backseat because it didn't fit in the trunk.
About gas mileage, I guess it's all in how you drive, my last tank was 11.7L/100Km this was CITY driving not highway cruise. I will be going to montreal this weekend so I'll get a better idea of highway mileage.
If you can wait for spring I would I suppose, I didn't want to wait because I would have never got rid of my lease, your not in a lease so you don't have this problem.
As far as the G35c, I highly doubt that the payments would be even close, the car starts at $50K That's 57.5 after taxes I doubt you would get super low rates on the G35c although I could be wrong.
08-29-2003, 08:25 AM
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He Wing, how do you do that??? 11.7L/100
City driving! Boy... even with my "granny driving style" I can hardly get 13.5L/100... I guess I'll call my dealer and ask about a "fuel comsumption test".
City driving! Boy... even with my "granny driving style" I can hardly get 13.5L/100... I guess I'll call my dealer and ask about a "fuel comsumption test".
08-29-2003, 09:52 AM
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mac,
I too have been following the 8 since first seeing an article in the Fall 2001 issue of MotorTrend...I have a file bursting at the seams with every article written since then....I unfortunately didn't make to the Toronto AutoShow this year because of a snowstorm, but when the pricing came out I went to the local Mazda dealer here in London and put down my deposit on a Silver GT...turned out I was 1st here in London..waited patiently til June 25th (car in port) and then waited impatiently till July 25th (delivery date). My personal dilemna was that I had bought a 2002 C230K Mercedes in Sept. '01 (6 speed, panoramic sunroof, heated leather etc.) and I was the first in London then too. ...I hadn't test driven that car until it arrived and being caught up in the emotions of being first in town, etc...I ended up buying the car....being a first year model it has had it's problems too..mostly the squeaky sunroof (been in 5 times now with no permanent resolution), and the god awful sound of its exhaust...this was my first german vehicle (everything else has been japanese). Despite advertising locally, on the Benz forum, AutoTrader etc., and asking a fairly reasonable $30K (purchased for $40K plus taxes) and only has 25,000 kms., didn't get any interest at all, and the local Benz dealer was playing hardball on the resale (too much inventory).
Getting long winded here....I test drove the 8 for an hour, loving every second, but I wasn't able to get the minimum that I had budgeted for on the Benz...so I ended up passing on the 8....(as I'm 50 now, telling myself that I've finally learned to make a business decision vs. emotional one!!)
I've been following this forum since joining in the Spring, and am personally glad that things worked out this way for me....I still have my deposit in for a Spring '04 delivery date...when I'll be able to enjoy a full summer of driving a car that has had the intial bugs worked out and hopefully find a better deal for the Benz.
I too have been following the 8 since first seeing an article in the Fall 2001 issue of MotorTrend...I have a file bursting at the seams with every article written since then....I unfortunately didn't make to the Toronto AutoShow this year because of a snowstorm, but when the pricing came out I went to the local Mazda dealer here in London and put down my deposit on a Silver GT...turned out I was 1st here in London..waited patiently til June 25th (car in port) and then waited impatiently till July 25th (delivery date). My personal dilemna was that I had bought a 2002 C230K Mercedes in Sept. '01 (6 speed, panoramic sunroof, heated leather etc.) and I was the first in London then too. ...I hadn't test driven that car until it arrived and being caught up in the emotions of being first in town, etc...I ended up buying the car....being a first year model it has had it's problems too..mostly the squeaky sunroof (been in 5 times now with no permanent resolution), and the god awful sound of its exhaust...this was my first german vehicle (everything else has been japanese). Despite advertising locally, on the Benz forum, AutoTrader etc., and asking a fairly reasonable $30K (purchased for $40K plus taxes) and only has 25,000 kms., didn't get any interest at all, and the local Benz dealer was playing hardball on the resale (too much inventory).
Getting long winded here....I test drove the 8 for an hour, loving every second, but I wasn't able to get the minimum that I had budgeted for on the Benz...so I ended up passing on the 8....(as I'm 50 now, telling myself that I've finally learned to make a business decision vs. emotional one!!)
I've been following this forum since joining in the Spring, and am personally glad that things worked out this way for me....I still have my deposit in for a Spring '04 delivery date...when I'll be able to enjoy a full summer of driving a car that has had the intial bugs worked out and hopefully find a better deal for the Benz.
08-29-2003, 11:58 AM
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Mac,
how about going ahead and take the car first and then if you decided that it is not all that you hope it would be, use the Mazda Buy back deal ??? Chance like these are extremely rare but in your case, you can test it out and then get your money back if you don't like it. And if you do like it, you get a car that you love and the $500 + Free Service. Can't lose. I guess this HP loss blunder works in your favour in this case.
how about going ahead and take the car first and then if you decided that it is not all that you hope it would be, use the Mazda Buy back deal ??? Chance like these are extremely rare but in your case, you can test it out and then get your money back if you don't like it. And if you do like it, you get a car that you love and the $500 + Free Service. Can't lose. I guess this HP loss blunder works in your favour in this case.
08-29-2003, 01:30 PM
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Originally posted by TT2RX8
He Wing, how do you do that??? 11.7L/100 City driving!
He Wing, how do you do that??? 11.7L/100
City driving!
08-29-2003, 04:32 PM
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Well, the other cars I can compare the Rx8 to is a '93 Civic HatchBack and an '91 NSX. I would put the Rx8 VERY CLOSE to my NSX. It has the speed, the handling and the smooth shifting of the Acura, and it definitely more comfortable in the back than my Civic. My advice..hehe, you know it already...get the CAR!!!!
08-29-2003, 04:43 PM
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Mac, if you can somehow hold off until spring, I would wait until then. I'm sure that by spring you will be able to bargain the price down, you will get a better interest/lease rate, the fuel economy and hp issues will be finalized which ever way and some of the first year quirks and growing pains will be adressed. And you will get tons of feedback from the current owners about the car if what you have read so far is not enough for you. And you might be able to get a test drive at your own convienience.
Of course this is the rational side of me talking, not the heart. If you can live with the above and not have any regrets get the car now. It's still the best choice in the price bracket imo as a sporty coupe/sedan with great rwd handling dynamics.
Of course this is the rational side of me talking, not the heart. If you can live with the above and not have any regrets get the car now. It's still the best choice in the price bracket imo as a sporty coupe/sedan with great rwd handling dynamics.
08-29-2003, 04:55 PM
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This is a cross post, I originally posted this to a different forum. It's my own unique experience with the RX-8, and describes the reasons behind what I plan on doing.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I heard about the RX-8 announcement at the Tokyo autoshow and I immediately contacted my dealer to put my money down, probably before anyone else in the country. This was in December of 2001.
I am currently driving my 3rd RX-7 in a row and I haven't even owned a non Mazda rotary car in well over a decade. I love Mazda rotary engines and I jumped at the opportunity to get another one, especially a brand new one. When I saw the specs on the car and found out that the car was going to be available in the Spring of 2003 I was overjoyed. I read and knew all about the Carbon Fiber drive train components and how efficient it was supposed to be. I wanted to be the first person in town to own one, I wanted to drive my new sports car all summer.
I have never been willing to buy any car that was brand new, but I was more that willing to buy THIS car brand new.
I had no problem waiting until (what was supposed to be) the beginning of August instead of Spring so that I could get the color that I wanted (yellow). I had no problem when I found out the Navigation system wouldn't have maps for Edmonton for at least another 6 months. I had no problem when my dealer said that I'd be getting $500.00 and free service for 3 years from Mazda Canada, for what was described as a slight drop of around 9 horsepower.
After waiting the better part of 2 years from the time I put my money down to the time of delivery, (Wednesday of this week) my dealer smacked my car into concrete pillar. This was about an hour before I was supposed to come pick up my car. When I heard about this, I was dumbfounded and numb.
This pretty much burst the bubble on the new car. Summer is just about over, and will be over by the time this car is fixed. I'm not the first guy on the street with one, not by a long shot. I was not going to pay full list price for a broken and fixed car to only park it in my garage for the next 6 months waiting for Spring thaw. My honeymoon with the car I'd spent years waiting for was over before it even began.
To the dealers credit, I had no problems walking away from the deal. They agreed to refund my registration expenses without a flinch.
And now I find this forum, and find out that the RX-8, as it is currently configured, is really down over 20 HP, the engine falls down 2000 RPM before it's reported peak power point, and it is a gas guzzler to boot. (I'm just looking at the data posted here. No one has posted any numbers to the contrary, only subjective comments about how the car feels fast enough for them or that the car meets the gas millage when they drive slower than grandma).
I feel that by some divine intervention I dodged a bullet when the poor guy at the dealership hit that pillar. I'm going to plan B. You all can be the first to own and drive the RX-8.
I'm going to wait a while. Maybe there will be a bunch of cheap buyback models available soon. Maybe by next year, Mazda will have fixed the engine problems. Maybe in 2 years I'll buy one used and save a boatload on depreciation. Maybe in a couple years Mazda will be selling a model with a turbocharger/supercharger. Whatever happens, I'll still drive a Mazda rotary powered car and I'll own an RX-8 in the near future.
I don't want to own THIS RX-8 new.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I heard about the RX-8 announcement at the Tokyo autoshow and I immediately contacted my dealer to put my money down, probably before anyone else in the country. This was in December of 2001.
I am currently driving my 3rd RX-7 in a row and I haven't even owned a non Mazda rotary car in well over a decade. I love Mazda rotary engines and I jumped at the opportunity to get another one, especially a brand new one. When I saw the specs on the car and found out that the car was going to be available in the Spring of 2003 I was overjoyed. I read and knew all about the Carbon Fiber drive train components and how efficient it was supposed to be. I wanted to be the first person in town to own one, I wanted to drive my new sports car all summer.
I have never been willing to buy any car that was brand new, but I was more that willing to buy THIS car brand new.
I had no problem waiting until (what was supposed to be) the beginning of August instead of Spring so that I could get the color that I wanted (yellow). I had no problem when I found out the Navigation system wouldn't have maps for Edmonton for at least another 6 months. I had no problem when my dealer said that I'd be getting $500.00 and free service for 3 years from Mazda Canada, for what was described as a slight drop of around 9 horsepower.
After waiting the better part of 2 years from the time I put my money down to the time of delivery, (Wednesday of this week) my dealer smacked my car into concrete pillar. This was about an hour before I was supposed to come pick up my car. When I heard about this, I was dumbfounded and numb.
This pretty much burst the bubble on the new car. Summer is just about over, and will be over by the time this car is fixed. I'm not the first guy on the street with one, not by a long shot. I was not going to pay full list price for a broken and fixed car to only park it in my garage for the next 6 months waiting for Spring thaw. My honeymoon with the car I'd spent years waiting for was over before it even began.
To the dealers credit, I had no problems walking away from the deal. They agreed to refund my registration expenses without a flinch.
And now I find this forum, and find out that the RX-8, as it is currently configured, is really down over 20 HP, the engine falls down 2000 RPM before it's reported peak power point, and it is a gas guzzler to boot. (I'm just looking at the data posted here. No one has posted any numbers to the contrary, only subjective comments about how the car feels fast enough for them or that the car meets the gas millage when they drive slower than grandma).
I feel that by some divine intervention I dodged a bullet when the poor guy at the dealership hit that pillar. I'm going to plan B. You all can be the first to own and drive the RX-8.
I'm going to wait a while. Maybe there will be a bunch of cheap buyback models available soon. Maybe by next year, Mazda will have fixed the engine problems. Maybe in 2 years I'll buy one used and save a boatload on depreciation. Maybe in a couple years Mazda will be selling a model with a turbocharger/supercharger. Whatever happens, I'll still drive a Mazda rotary powered car and I'll own an RX-8 in the near future.
I don't want to own THIS RX-8 new.
08-29-2003, 05:00 PM
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Well the thing is, he will have to decide if the current msrp price on which the dealers are not willing to budge so far is worth ~180whp. I'm not so sure, especially when considering the base model but it's still a very nice car.
08-29-2003, 05:40 PM
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Originally posted by SomberGuy
I feel that by some divine intervention I dodged a bullet when the poor guy at the dealership hit that pillar.
I feel that by some divine intervention I dodged a bullet when the poor guy at the dealership hit that pillar.
The 8 is a great car. I can't believe how many people get on this forum and...
1) ask advice of complete strangers they know nothing about on making major purchase decisions &
2) give advice without having any 1st hand knowledge of what they're talking about.
Did you ever even drive the 8 before deciding you didn't want it? And if not, you're telling someone else that they shouldn't buy it either, based on your "knowledge" of it?
Please... for every product there's a bulletin board or forum for, you're probably going to hear more bad things simply because it's an outlet for people who've had bad luck or gotten a lemon, and they're more prone to vent about it.
I would venture to say there's many, many more people who are not going to take the buy back than are. Don't listen to people's advice you don't know and/or who have no actual 1st hand experience with the car. Go find out for yourself if it's right for you.
The 8 is a great sports car. It's not fast off the line, but it was never meant to be a "quarter miler". It's got gobs of power once you hit the revs, it revs like there's no tommorow, it handles spectacularly, and it looks great. It's got four seats, but I wouldn't say you're getting a sedan, because using it long term for that is probably going to be a little cramped.
If this what you're looking for, you'll love it. If not, wait. But let me tell you, this is a FUN car to drive, and I wouldn't want to wait another day to get one. If I had it to do all over again, I would buy it in a heartbeat.
08-30-2003, 12:11 AM
#17
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and the answer is...
Wow, thanks for the response guys.
I went to the Santa Fe dealer, they had 4 RX-8 on the lot (blue, yellow, black and red). They all had Adjusted market value of $5,000 USD. You can guess the rest. The sales guy (mid 20's) says they don't give test drives unless the person is ready to buy today. I explain AGAIN my situation but he doesn't quite get it and replies "what can I do to make a deal with you today". It's hopeless so I start to walk to my rental (Altima) and he follows and start to ask me about the car 'cause he likes it a lot :roll eyes: . I say it has a heck of a lot of power but doesn't handle very well (too big and too heavy) and the seat lacks lumbar support. BTW if anyone is ever in Santa Fe go for a drive to Taos via the 76 "wow, can you say zoom zoom" The drive to Los Alamos has some nice stretches too.
Still reading huh, wow glutton for punishment. All right I'll end the suspense. The LOGICAL SIDE WON, since the Mazda offer is full refund with no questions asked, I've decided to get the car for an extended road test :D I'm trying to close the deal from 3,000+ km away but there is a slight glitch, the contract was dated Aug 28 which is past the Aug 26 deadline from Mazda. My rep is away until next Wednesday and I can't reach his replacement. There is also a problem with the price but it is moot if they won't change the date. I'll try again tomorrow. Once they've change the date and agreed to final price there is still the small matter of financing. The next few days will be interesting to say the least. We'll find out if FedEx really does go everywhere
I will return the car on Oct 1 and wait until spring to get a better deal but mostly to get a better handle on fuel consumption and what problems if any are plaguing the 8 as well as how does it perform in snow.
I'll try and provide an update when I get in Vancouver next Tuesday.
I went to the Santa Fe dealer, they had 4 RX-8 on the lot (blue, yellow, black and red). They all had Adjusted market value of $5,000 USD. You can guess the rest. The sales guy (mid 20's) says they don't give test drives unless the person is ready to buy today. I explain AGAIN my situation but he doesn't quite get it and replies "what can I do to make a deal with you today". It's hopeless so I start to walk to my rental (Altima) and he follows and start to ask me about the car 'cause he likes it a lot :roll eyes: . I say it has a heck of a lot of power but doesn't handle very well (too big and too heavy) and the seat lacks lumbar support. BTW if anyone is ever in Santa Fe go for a drive to Taos via the 76 "wow, can you say zoom zoom" The drive to Los Alamos has some nice stretches too.
Still reading huh, wow glutton for punishment. All right I'll end the suspense. The LOGICAL SIDE WON, since the Mazda offer is full refund with no questions asked, I've decided to get the car for an extended road test :D I'm trying to close the deal from 3,000+ km away but there is a slight glitch, the contract was dated Aug 28 which is past the Aug 26 deadline from Mazda. My rep is away until next Wednesday and I can't reach his replacement. There is also a problem with the price but it is moot if they won't change the date. I'll try again tomorrow. Once they've change the date and agreed to final price there is still the small matter of financing. The next few days will be interesting to say the least. We'll find out if FedEx really does go everywhere
I will return the car on Oct 1 and wait until spring to get a better deal but mostly to get a better handle on fuel consumption and what problems if any are plaguing the 8 as well as how does it perform in snow.
I'll try and provide an update when I get in Vancouver next Tuesday.
08-30-2003, 09:48 AM
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Javahut, You missed a few.
3) Jump down peoples throats for posting their experiences.
4) 1/2 read a post, don't take the time to fully comprehend the content, and respond in anger
5) Make assumptions about the experiences of others.
6) Make angered posts to address issues that aren't directly related or relavent to the thread.
Your post is the quintessential example of a oxymoron rant. You tell us all not to listen to anyones opinion and to find out for ourselves. You immediately follow this up with your own subjective opinion of the car.
So which is it? Should we bother to read your opinion of the car? Or, based on your own advice, should we ignore you too?
All choices and opinions are not polar opposites. It is the diminished mind that thinks of everything only in absolutes. Not everything is All Good/All Bad, Black/White, Best/Worst.
We do agree on quite a few points. The RX-8 is a great car. It handles extremely well, I say this having driven the car. It looks fantastic, infact I would say the design will still look awesome in a year or so when I buy one of these cars (used). The interior design is gorgeous, the sound system is incredible for a factory unit. The back seat is huge, spacious and very comfortable for such a small car.
For the first time ever, I was willing to pay full LIST for a car. I was willing to pay full LIST for a brand new 250 HP sportscar that no one else owned yet, and a car that would arrive in the Spring so that I could drive it for the summer during the year that it was unique and new. None of these 3 are possible now, hense, I'm not buying it. I'll stick to my RX-7 for now (it's not a "quarter miler" either).
You, on the other hand, don't care about these things and enjoy your car. Continue to Enjoy.
I can't believe how many people get on this forum and...
4) 1/2 read a post, don't take the time to fully comprehend the content, and respond in anger
5) Make assumptions about the experiences of others.
6) Make angered posts to address issues that aren't directly related or relavent to the thread.
Your post is the quintessential example of a oxymoron rant. You tell us all not to listen to anyones opinion and to find out for ourselves. You immediately follow this up with your own subjective opinion of the car.
So which is it? Should we bother to read your opinion of the car? Or, based on your own advice, should we ignore you too?
All choices and opinions are not polar opposites. It is the diminished mind that thinks of everything only in absolutes. Not everything is All Good/All Bad, Black/White, Best/Worst.
We do agree on quite a few points. The RX-8 is a great car. It handles extremely well, I say this having driven the car. It looks fantastic, infact I would say the design will still look awesome in a year or so when I buy one of these cars (used). The interior design is gorgeous, the sound system is incredible for a factory unit. The back seat is huge, spacious and very comfortable for such a small car.
For the first time ever, I was willing to pay full LIST for a car. I was willing to pay full LIST for a brand new 250 HP sportscar that no one else owned yet, and a car that would arrive in the Spring so that I could drive it for the summer during the year that it was unique and new. None of these 3 are possible now, hense, I'm not buying it. I'll stick to my RX-7 for now (it's not a "quarter miler" either).
You, on the other hand, don't care about these things and enjoy your car. Continue to Enjoy.
Last edited by SomberGuy; 08-30-2003 at 10:03 AM.
08-30-2003, 09:53 AM
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Mac,
You lose your power to affect change after you've handed over the money. Don't hand over any money until you have the exact deal you want, in writing, ahead of time.
If the dealer won't guarantee in writing that you are eligible for the buyback deal, you probably won't be.
There is a reason why Mazda Canada put a deadline on the deal. You might view it as an extended testdrive. MCI probably would see it as trying to get a car for free for a month.
You lose your power to affect change after you've handed over the money. Don't hand over any money until you have the exact deal you want, in writing, ahead of time.
If the dealer won't guarantee in writing that you are eligible for the buyback deal, you probably won't be.
There is a reason why Mazda Canada put a deadline on the deal. You might view it as an extended testdrive. MCI probably would see it as trying to get a car for free for a month.
Last edited by SomberGuy; 08-30-2003 at 09:56 AM.
08-30-2003, 01:17 PM
#20
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Originally posted by javahut
Dodged a bullet? PLEASE! What an overstatement. You think it would have killed you to get this car?
The 8 is a great car. I can't believe how many people get on this forum and...
1) ask advice of complete strangers they know nothing about on making major purchase decisions &
2) give advice without having any 1st hand knowledge of what they're talking about.
Did you ever even drive the 8 before deciding you didn't want it? And if not, you're telling someone else that they shouldn't buy it either, based on your "knowledge" of it?
Dodged a bullet? PLEASE! What an overstatement. You think it would have killed you to get this car?
The 8 is a great car. I can't believe how many people get on this forum and...
1) ask advice of complete strangers they know nothing about on making major purchase decisions &
2) give advice without having any 1st hand knowledge of what they're talking about.
Did you ever even drive the 8 before deciding you didn't want it? And if not, you're telling someone else that they shouldn't buy it either, based on your "knowledge" of it?
He made a deposit long before any of you. Wanted a yellow one
Had to go through:
To get the yellow he had to buy NAV and roof even though not wanted at great expense
Had to wait 2 to 4 months longer
Found out the NAV he did not want, but has to pay for, does NOT WORK HERE.
The dealer crashed his car into a concrete pillar.
BTW< he HAS driven one. Mine.
He likes the car, but as he has said "Too little, too late"
Give it a rest, eh?
If all you want to hear is "happy, happy" go join a cheerleading club.
08-30-2003, 02:55 PM
#21
Hey WOW its getting ugly in here.
I think Mac was just looking for a little place to put down his thoughts and maybe get some advice.
To SomberGuy - Sorry for the disappointing loss. I would be a bit twisted and hurt aswell.
To javahut - How would you feel if the dealer smashed the 8 you waited 2 years for into a concrete wall 1 hour before delivery?
Canzoomer Do you know of any cheerleading clubs taking new members? :D
I think Mac was just looking for a little place to put down his thoughts and maybe get some advice.
To SomberGuy - Sorry for the disappointing loss. I would be a bit twisted and hurt aswell.
To javahut - How would you feel if the dealer smashed the 8 you waited 2 years for into a concrete wall 1 hour before delivery?
Canzoomer Do you know of any cheerleading clubs taking new members? :D
08-30-2003, 04:51 PM
#22
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Originally posted by Evolv
Canzoomer Do you know of any cheerleading clubs taking new members? :D
Canzoomer Do you know of any cheerleading clubs taking new members? :D
See:
http://www.rx8forum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9437
08-30-2003, 07:23 PM
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Originally posted by canzoomer
If all you want to hear is "happy, happy" go join a cheerleading club.
If all you want to hear is "happy, happy" go join a cheerleading club.
08-31-2003, 02:00 AM
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Hey WOW its getting ugly in here.
Somberguy, I only put down $500 buck in July to have first right of refusal when the dealer got the news that the car was in production. I have a written statement that says I can get it back no questions asked signed by the GM. The letter from Mazda also specifically states that the dealer must return any deposits (in full) if the customer decides not to take the car upon delivery. Since the contract needs to be signed before I get to do a test drive, then I must have a way to back out of the deal. So without the buy back the deal is dead. As others have pointed out, only I can decide if the car is powerfull enough for what I'm paying. However power isn't the whole equation, just part of it.So they don't have my money and won't get it unless they revise the date so I can qualify. They also have to change the price to our verbal agreement (MSRP + paint+ freight/pdi), otherwise I won't sign.
Yes, it can be construed that I am trying to get a car for a month for free. That is why I did not simply say to my dealer "Yes, I'll take it". I needed to think this thru (hence the reason for this post). I did say that I would likely return the car but there is still a possibility that the car is really everything that I want, I justify the price and I discover that I am one of those who does get the posted fuel economy and thus simply keep the car. I have been waiting since January for this thing, they promised May delivery, then June etc. The summer is over and it's still isn't here (neither am I for that matter :grin: )
I haven't been able to contact the dealership (I've been in transit for the past 2 days) so all of this could be moot. I will let everyone know how this ends.
I'm now off to do a little fishing in the Straights.
Cheers,
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