canzoomer

See:
http://www.kaltire.com/locations/loc...page=locations

Canada

This morning John at Talon Tire tried several rims on my RX-8, which I submitted as the guinea pig.

Unfortunately nothing fit - yet. Some 16-inch rims didn't clear the front brake caliper, which is larger than the rear one, and the 17" rim cleared it but was not "hub-centric", meaning the central hole of the rim was not sitting flush againt the hub. Some shops, according to John, will sell and mount rims that fit in this manner but he does not adhere to this practice, which he considers substandard. Ring adapters were out of the question but I didin't quite catch the reason, something about a required bevel missing from an inside edge of the rim.

Now that he knows exactly what to look for, John will contact his mag wheel suppliers on Tuesday to discuss the specifications (16 or 17 inch rims, 7 or 7.5 inch width, proper caliper clearance) and get more rims in - then I'll be happy to go back in for more test fittings. Also, John agreed to join this forum and post the details of todays "experiments" and his future determinations directly into this thread. Please look for his postings here in the coming days. Since I'm not an expert in this area, it is best to reserve for him any technical questions I'm sure you will have, after he makes his first posting.

I did let John know how much we appreciated his opening on Saturday of Labor Day Weekend for us. By coincidence, his shop is only about 2 minutes away from my work and so I'll be able to pop by for fittings during or close to normal working hours.

Don't worry, a solution will be found.

mdmaclean

Canada,

Please have John also consider which 18" rims will fit. Depending upon cost, I might go for the LM-22's.

Gord96BRG

Thanks for your efforts, Canada. FWIW, hub-centricity is a nice-to-have, as it makes it easier to get the lugs properly centred when tightening, but otherwise is not essential and the importance of it has been greatly overblown. As far as I'm concerned, forget hub-centricity - if it's got a bolt pattern of 5x114.3, offset between 42 and 50 (38 puts more stress on the bearings than 50 - canzoomer, I think you have your planes of reference confused), and 16" that clears the front brakes (and is relatively lightweight), I'd buy them.

Were there any 16s that cleared the front calipers? What 17s cleared, but weren't hubcentric? Specs and details, please, if possible!

Regards,
Gordon

Canada

I'll remind John to compile his summary with answers to your questions, and to post it ASAP.

Wing

Thanks Canada! Oh and thanks to John!

canzoomer, the rim pricing you specified is great! $130 a rim is $30 cheaper than what I have been quoted so far. But the tire pricing is $40 higher than compariable tires from bridgstone, Dunlop, Toyo and Yokohama.

And there are no dealers in my area, canzoomers deal might be great for westerners! Although I'm not sure about the offset thing.

Guess we'll wait and see what transpires over the next few days.

P.S. Montreal roads are SOOOO DAMN ROUGH! I swear every park of my car rattled while driving through montreal. As soon as I high Ontario, NO MORE RATTLES! Crazy!

P.S.S. Saw a yellow RX8 on service road in Dorion 10am yesterday.

Bulldog6670

Thanks Canada & Johnfor what you've done so far, and for the work you will contnue to do to get us proper wheels and tires.

Winter is still months away, but like everything else, time has a way of creeping up on you rather quickly.

canzoomer

I take it by the responses that there is nobody on this topic thread interested in a group buy in the west?

If not I will not bother with posting any more info on this.

Thanks!

f1michel

Wing... our roads are the worst in the universe !! I love driving to Vt or ontario just to experience the smoothness of a normally made road.

The 20 to Québec city is fine though and the 40 is pretty good as well.

Gord96BRG

Sorry, I hadn't responded specifically to this - I'm interested in winter wheels and tires, and am interested in any details and group buys / deals! I'd sooner buy locally than from a national provider if the price is better. But, it seems you and I have different thoughts on the appropriate winter solution, so I'm not sure that what works for you will suit me as well... If they're a bit flexible on what wheels or tire sizes to use, then count me in!

Regards,
Gordon

Bulldog6670

Gord,

I'm no expert in winter tires and rims, especially for the RX-8. Posting different thoughts on this thread will better help me in deciding what's best here in the GTA. Please continue providing your input. It is appreciated.

canzoomer

The offer was not limited to just those tires/wheels.
I went to them as they are retty well the sole dealers for Nokian, and those have a very good rep for winter tires.

Let me know what you want and i can ask them..

Gord96BRG

OK, here goes:

16" alloy wheel - 5x114.3 pattern, 42 to 50mm offset, under 16 lbs weight, must clear front brake caliper.

If it clears front calipers, is under 16 lbs, and around 45mm offset, then tire choices:

1st 16" size choice: 215/60-16,

Acceptable tire choices in that size:
Goodyear Eagle UltraGrip GW3
Michelin Pilot Alpin Next Generation
Pirelli Winter210 SnowSport

2nd 16" size choice: 205/60-16,

Acceptable tire choices in that size:
Goodyear Eagle UltraGrip GW3
Michelin Pilot Alpin Next Generation
Pirelli Winter210 SnowSport

3rd 16" size choice: 225/55-16

Acceptable tire choices in that size:
Blizzak LM-22
Goodyear Eagle UltraGrip GW3
Michelin Pilot Alpin Next Generation
Pirelli Winter210 SnowSport
Toyo Garit HT
Toyo Snowprox S950
Yokohama AVS Winter V901

If a light 16" alloy rim can't be found that clears the front brakes, then

2nd wheel choice: 17x7" alloy 5x114.3, 42 to 50mm offset, under 17 lbs, must clear front brake caliper.

Acceptable 17" tire size: 215/55-17

Acceptable 17" winter tire choices in that size:

Michelin Pilot Alpin Next Generation
Pirelli Winter210 SnowSport

The Goodyear GW3, Michelin Pilot Alpin NG, and Yoko AVS Winter V901, are all new to the Canadian market this year. The GW3 came out tops in German winter tire tests last year, and the other two are very promising.

Thanks!

Regards,
Gordon

canzoomer

I doubt you will find 16's to fit.
Best bet is to drop by a KAL Tire and ask them, they are very friendly about test fitting i found..
If you want 16" wheels under 16 lbs, you pretty well have to buy forged wheels. Pretty expensive for winter wheels.

I think it is best you simply drop by one of their stores..

I did not find any 45mm offset wheels, low cost, that fit.
I tried some with 38 offset in 17" x 7" and they cleared with ample room. I could stick my fist between them and the shock towers.

Regarding tires, they sell at least:
Bridgestone, Firestone, Michelin, Nokian, Kumho, and Yokohama.
In the store i also saw Federal, and Falken.

Gord96BRG

I'm sceptical too about finding 16s that fit, but I know clearances vary significantly from wheel to wheel, and a contact with Mazda North America Operations told me back in July that the OEM RX-8 16" wheels would clear the big brakes on the OEM 18" wheel cars, so I do hold out some faint hope!

There's actually quite a few 16" wheels that are under 16 lbs and are reasonably priced, cast alloy wheels. For example, at www.tiretrends.com the Konig Holes in 16x7 is $220 per wheel and is under 15 lbs. A search there or at www.1010tires.com (both Canadian) shows 16 different wheels in 16x7, correct offset (between 42 and 50), and under $300 ea. The shop www.machiii.net sells Rota wheels for great prices out of the US, and there are several models of Rotas in 16" at 15 lbs ea for $500US/set. Both Konig and Rota have developed very good reputations for building strong yet light wheels that are affordable (not all models are light, but quite a few are).

What we need are some test fits of different 16" alloy wheels to prove or eliminate that option!!!

Regards,
Gordon

Wing

Hey, what's going on with Talon Canada?

I might call them today. Interested in finding out what's up!

It's getting COLD fast!

Canada

I dropped by the Talon Tire shop at lunch hour today and asked John to post his progress here. He promised to do so by Friday night!

canzoomer

I am not going to be buying winter wheels that cost over $200 each.

However others may want to. Just not in my budget..

If you really want 16" I am sure there are some that are available that might fit, but worrying about weight being around 16 lbs strikes me as odd, considering the stock 18" weight about 20 lbs each.

Anyway, I am sticking with 17's and the Nokian WS in 225/45/17.
One benefit I see is that this size is 5% smaller diameter than the stock wheel/tires, so the speedo calibration will be more accurate, and this effectively reduces the final gear ratio by about 5% too, which will help performance a bit at lower speeds.

I think that the 45 sidewalls will also look better than higher ones.

Gord96BRG

IMHO, the stock wheels are too heavy - Mazda made a mistake (concession to popular style) by using 18s on the RX-8. There's no such thing as too little unsprung weight. I'm betting that lighter wheels and tires will improve the ride and responsiveness. Since those winter wheels and tires will be on the car for 5 or 6 months of every year, I'd rather invest a few dollars more for good wheels that are light, strong, and attractive, enhance rather than detract from the characteristics of the car, and not have to avoid looking at black steelies for half the year!

Actually, that will throw it further out (less accurate). I had my GPS mounted for the entire time of my road trip, and the speedo always showed about 1.5 mph faster than the true speed (about 2 to 3 km/h faster). Mounting smaller diameter tires will make the speedo show even more over the true speed, causing a larger error.

Regards,
Gordon

Wing

Gord, that's good news, so when I'm going 110 I'm really going 107, PERFECT

You should be able to get 17" Alloys with 50mm offset for under $200. tiretrends.com has a set for $169. A local shop quoted me $175.

I'm hoping John can do better that's why I called them to begin with.

canzoomer

Agreed, but I would want to sell those and get others if I wanted to do something about it, rather than jump way down to 16's instead.

I guess it is a matter of timing mostly. Right now I am concerned about winter wheels and tires, and the rest can wait.
Others may choose a different order.
In either case it is becoming a moot point.
Yesterday it was pointed out that we did not get block heaters.
Further investigation is leading me to believe that ther is no way to install a block heater.
There is another thread on this already, so enough said.
Buyback looking better all the time.

I too used a GPS to test the speedo accuracy.
Results:
Speedo Actual
60 57
80 76
100 95
120 114

Yes, you are right, smaller wheels will result in a bigger difference.
My brain was not engaged when I thought it would improve it.
Crappy..

Wing

Sweet, that is 2 that confirm basically the same thing with a GPS.

Which means if a cop is pacing me and I'm going 110, they are LOOSERS because I'm really going like 105 and well nobody gets stopped for that on a 100Km/h highway!

f1michel

OK, so basically our speedo overestimates our spead ALL the time?? So i'll cruis at 120 and be well withing the SAFETY zone.. (under 120)

Gord96BRG

There's some sort of federal requirement (in most countries, I'd guess) that a speedometeer can not indicate less than the actual speed of a vehicle. To allow for normal tolerances and variations, EVERY manufacturer builds their vehicles so that the speedo reads slightly higher than the actual speed. My actual speed was closer to indicated than canzoomers, which illustrates the normal production variations possible. So I wouldn't say WELL within the safety zone - if you're indicating 120, you're doing between 116 and 118...

Regards,
Gordon

f1michel

That's good enough, i went through a radar trap at 119 this pm and was checking my rearview mirror .... he didn't move !! Thanks guys , i learn a few new things everyday on the forum.