Some food for thought . . . I had an Audi that came with an aftermarket removable face CD player. I always removed the face, then one night I came home if Chinese take-out, my hands were full and I didn't remove it. Some punks broke the door lock, scratched the paint, then absolutely shredded my dash and center console. They broke tons of plastic trim, dash switches, climate control system, you name it. The insurance company were a bunch of idiots and it took forever for some guy in the Black Forest to carve me new plastic pieces for the dash. Thousands in damage for a $200 stereo with a DIN mounting bracket that can be removed in 10 seconds with a bent coat hanger, idiots . . . After my poor car was fixed they came back again and broke the door lock, searched the car for a faceplate and left. This all happened in my driveway in normally civilized suburbia. I actually tried to find a used OEM stereo to put back in . . . I personally will never install an aftermarket stereo in a car and I don't understand people who rice up cars with stereo stickers all over the outside, it's like they are begging for people to take their stuff . . . It's not that I have anything against good sounding tunes for the car, it's just the risk factor after being broken into three different times. I would try to make your install as stealthy as possible, never over estimate the intelligence of the common criminal . . .

 

Yokohama Ice Guards 225/45/18's


By far the Best winter tire I have ever used!!! I have Zero Problems driving in a Montreal snow storm!!

They work just as good in snow as on ice.. My buddy has a G35 Coupe he used to keep it in storage for winter.. After driving with me in a bad snow strom in the RX8 he got his car out of storage purchased the same set of Yoko's but with 245/45/18 for the rear and is loving his G in winter!!

They cost me $1200 Tax In!

 

I have two points.....

1st.... Rotator...i will race you on the track my 040's compared to your snows...20bucks says your tires are bald after 10min..hehehehe. the fact is they are snow tires, and although they "feel" better, they are way softer, and they prolly spin less, but to say that a snow tire is better in grip then the 040s is pretty crazy.....why not just use those all year round??

2nd...Im not much of a stereo guy at all......its just extra weight and more money to throw at a car. A stereo can be worth 3k now....but in 5 years, its not worth much at all......more bang for your buck by getting some suspension stuff

 

Kart Racer:

Tires are complex objects. It is common knowledge that winter tires have a compound optimized for temperatures less than 8C.
So you can bring your RE040's to that track at -20C, and I will embarrass you.
Grip has more to do than just being soft or hard.
About the snow tires - all you are doing is conjuring opinions based on a limited amount of knowledge. Put 4 snows on your car - or borrow one with 4 snows and see what we are talking about. Limit the snows to V rated performance though for a fair comparison.

As for extra weight and money of a system? It's all about personal preference. What ever you enjoy. The added 20 or so pounds of audio gear isn't a big deal for me. I'm most likely 20 lbs lighter than most anyway. I don't have the jack, or the tow hooks in the car - they are close to 10lbs right there.

And bringing anything to do with future value of components when discussing cars is pointless. They are sink holes. Unless you have some esoteric automobile you will never get anything back.

You spend money on what you feel is important. A good audio system for me turns a 500km straight hwy boring drive into something much more tolerable.

ExtensiveRX8 - Thanks for the tips on the Yoko's - how are they in the dry/wet? Noise, grip, sidewall flex?

 

just to add, i agree with you about the snow tires.....im sure they are great considering there snows.....I also have 4 snows on my car, the Pirreli Sottozero's, and although they have the softness to grip, they do not have the compound nor the sidewall to rival any other dry sport tire. Ive raced karts, and formula cars for about 8 years, and another racing buddy had my car for a day, about a month back, we both agreed, that at least on my tires, the car is way to sketchy sometimes....

 

Kart Racer

Sorry - I forgot you had the Sottozero's. All I can say is that my experience with the Pirelli 240's are that they are more predictable than the RE040's in the dry. I don't know how the Sottozero's compare to the 240's. I had winter 210's on my talon and know people that have won spring autocross with those tires.
There was something about the RE040's that made the asphalt appear greasy.

On a sidenote - I'll share an experience with winter 210's on my talon in 25C weather. SCARY. absolute lack of grip, and very soft sidewalls at that temperature. Soft isn't necessarily better.

Really - we could argue back and forth. I will maintain that there is less rear wheel spin when accelerating, and the DSC rarely kicks in while cornering. I am happy with the cold weather performance of the 240's - not necessarily the snow performance.

Until you go to a track with both sets on the same day, you really aren't going to know for sure which is "faster".

Possibly the RE040's with ample time to get warm will beat the Snows.
But on the street - cold tires are the norm, and in this respect the snows have the RE040's beat in any cold temperature.

Sketchy is not a word that bodes well for confidence. This is why for summer I will switch to either Michelin PS2 or something.

As for racing experience - you have me beat - unless Gran Turismo counts!

What would be interesting is to see how the "SNOW" tires when the tread is at 4/32 or so compare to the "Summer" at -10C. This tread depth will negate any squirm you may mistake for sidewall flex. I really don't see how a V rated 40, or 45 series tire will have a vastly different sidewall compliance whether they are snow or not. There isn't much sidewall to roll.

 

Kart, are your Sotto's V rated? Because I seriously beleive that my Pilots have about as much roll as the RE 040's. From my limited, experience, I would have to say that I probably find the Michelins to be more controllable and predicatable than the stock tires at this early stage in their life. But then again I have no "track experience" and I don't think I push my car to the limits you probably do or have the experience you do to truly undrerstand the car/tires' limits. Having said that and despite your years of track experience, I'll still kick your *** anytime/anyplace! :D Just Kidding!

:p I should watch what I say to you, even jokingly, because I need that favour from you! Hope school is going fine.

 

You guys should try synthetic - I switched my RX-8 over to Redline (MT90 in the transmission, 75W90 in differential) before it's first winter, and the gearbox is much easier to shift when it's stone cold at sub-freezing temperatures.

Regards,
Gordon

 

Rotator, and Shamblerock, i will have to get a ride sometime in your car before the summer comes....im interested. As far as i know the Sottozeros are V rated.....but the 55 series and lack of reinforced sidewall dont give a great feeling, especially when the suspension loads up..... Im not too much of a fan on the 040's either...they wear fast, and arent the greatest..... Let us know about the PS2's ive heard good things about them!!

 

Kart Racer - 55 series?? What size are they? 235/55/R17?
They are US specific tires that may have more of a snow orientation. Who knows?

How can we compare tires if they aren't the same size?
The RE040's are stock 225/45/R18 as are the Pirrelli's.
I think this is really the only fair comparison.
Throw in your Sottozeros in a -1, or -2 size and the comparison is unfair.

As for the summer vs winter debate - YES a summer tire should be MUCH better than a winter tire.

My argument is specific to the RE040's against the Pirellis in cold weather.

Biggest problem I find now that we have had a few storms is the amount of friggin' salt on the road. We need a good rain to wash this stuff off. I find the roads slippery with all that salt.

 

Gord: I heard of this before. How much does it cost to change the tranny oil as you suggest? Is it worth getting a braided clutch line while I'm there? Any idea on cost?

Kart: Hopefully we'll have a chance to hook up at one of these RX8 meets and
it you can try my car out to see how the tires grip.

Rotator: Next time we have one of these meets (usually up @ 400 & 7 or in Mississauga), you should come out and join us. I don't think you came to one of these before, have you?

 

Shamblerock - Went to one back in July or August? Dave and Busters?
I was one of the few Red cars without a spoiler.

 

my tires are 225/55/17 which closely matches the circumferance of the stock setup......what size are yours rotator?

 

Rotator, I attended one in August and I also have a VR 8 without a spoiler (not for too long - ordered oneon the weekend). I've been to 3 or 4 meets since then. Hopefully we'll catch you at the next one.

 

Kart Racer -
Pirelli's website claims 235/55/R17. They would be larger than stock - 476 RPK -
Stock circumfronce would be 225/50/R17 - 500 RPK
Mine are stock 225/45/R18 - 500 RPK
You sure about 225/55/R17? This would be 483 RPK
RPK - revolutions per KM.

I would think that you wouldn't want to change the size more than 5% either way.

 

nope positive, 225/55/17.....they are from gyro mazda, its just around the corner from my house. Are you running on 18's in the winter??? in that case, no wonder you love the snows!!

 

Nope, that size is taller than the OEM size - 215/55-17 is closer, but still slightly taller diameter than stock. That's why many of us run the 215/55-17 size, or alternatively 225/50-17.

Check it out yourself with the Miata.net Tire Size Calculator, or look on a tire manufacturer's detailed spec sheets for the actual diameters.

From the Miata.net tire calc, nominal diameter:
225/45-18: 26.0 inches
215/55-17: 26.3
225/50-17: 25.9
225/55-17: 26.7

The 225/55-17 is larger by 3%, and of those 4 sizes is the largest diameter.

Regards,
Gordon

 

I had lm22s on an anemic VW GTI 1.8T (250hp/270tq) and I was grossly disappointed in its performance considering the cost. I have since used Pirellis and Dunlops with better results.

You gotta love snow in Toronto...

 

sorry, stupid me, i just had a look at my car, they are 215/55/17s. i dont know why i thought otherwise....i think im having memory relapses due to the scratches in the rear bumper

 

Kart Racer,

There lies your problems - 215 wide, and 55 series will be quite a bit different than 225 wide, and 45 series - regardless of rubber compound.
225/55/R17 would have your speedo be out by 4%.

So I will agree that YOUR winter tires are not as good as the RE040's :D

That being said - the 225 width doesn't provide very good initial traction in the snow. A slight incline will leave me motionless. I have to be careful with hills and stop signs or lights.

This isn't a problem in toronto though as it is mainly flat, and the roads are snow covered for less that 1% of my winter driving.

 

I haven't been in the forum in a while so here is my winter tire update. I have 17" Yokohama's V901 with American Racing Steel Rims. So far they have been excellent. I was a little concerned about driving another RWD vehicle (had some bad experiences with a Mustang) I have been really impressed at how the car corrects itself immediately and you feel totally confident and in control. As for snow... BRING IT ON

 

you can always override the self correcting if you choose too.

 

I went with a set of Pirelli SnowSport 240s on the factory 18 inch rims. Budgetary limitations prevented dedicated rims. So far, they've been everything that the OEM Bridgestones are not!

 

Looks like I never posted in here... I'm using a set of Dunlop Wintersport M3's (with 17 inch wheels). They have terrific grip in the snow, and kept both me and my girlfriend alive through a nasty ice storm a month or so back. And they offer a level of grip on dry and wet roads that seems in every way superior to what the factory tires offered. Even after a few thousand hard-driven miles they're showing no signs of wear whatsoever. Amazing tires.

 

Hankook W300 Ice Bear 225/50R17 V rated on alloy rims. Purchased from TireTrends.
So far I'm impressed with these tires. On snow or slush they have good grip and they are quiet in the dry. Grip on ice is marginal. I don't think that you can get a better tire for the money.