Well, it has been a while since DGRR'07. Work has gotten in the way again, but I thought I would share my experience there 'cause, quite frankly, I don't think many people can make this comparison.

I am not one to spray, but I thought folks would be interested to know my experiences involving some serious *** haulage on Deal's Gap over the weekend. This is my Trip Report. Please understand these are my opinions from my perspective. YMMV.

To start, I think I can claim to be one of the few people in the world to have driven a turbo RX8 and a modified Evo VIII on the same day on the Tail. I can also claim to have “tested” these cars head-to-head on the same road, i.e., we hauled *** down the gap together. You may be surprised at the results.

First, some disclaimers and details: Route 129 is a public road and is subject to all rules and regulations applicable to public roads. This includes not being allowed to speed. Speeding is breaking the law. Don't do it. Respect the life of your fellow man. If you can't handle staying in your lane, please go away, because you suck. I am, nor is my good friend that owns the Evo, professional drivers; I can't even prove to you that we are good drivers. I think we would both admit that we are not even close to being pros. I have seen what pros do. I don’t want to even try. But you make up your own mind. I will say we have a driving skill levels that are essentially equal.

As for the details of my car, you can look at my sig. I have never dynoed my car, but even with the turbo I cannot take the Evo in a straight line from a dead stop; however, I can keep up, particularly from a roll. Prior to the turbo, I just watched the Evo rocket to the horizon...really. We estimate on the RX8 240-260 to the wheels. As for the Evo, it has some minor suspension modifications, including Megan Coilovers and a rear swaybar, and intake, exhaust and flash modifications to make 285+whp.

So as you know, the tail is 11 miles of tight, continuous, banked corners. It is a public road and a common access route south of the Smokies. It is regularly driven by bikers and sports car owners alike, but is also ridden by Sunday drivers, trucks pulling boats, RVs and Buses (we even saw an 18 wheeler! CRAZY!) Afternoon drives are relatively casual, but at night and in the morning, the road is sparsely populated. We decided to get it on early, before the ‘pokes and others got out on the road.

We took it easy on the approach road from Fontana village, but once we passed into TN we went at our respective 9/10ths. And I mean that. I won't try to explain the speeds we hit. We (at least I) stayed in our lane religiously. I left the stupid, insulting, interfering DSC on. I have a good idea what I can do with the car with it off and I have some experience controlling the car with it off. I could have gone 5 mph faster in corners with it off. But the idea of tail swiping a sport biker in mid-turn and being forced to observe the aftermath was not something that I could live with, so I left it on. Call me a wuss.

We started out with the Evo in front. First thing I think we both noticed was that the tires on the Evo were screaming. This is not such a bad thing in and of itself, but even I could tell that it was the front tires that were screaming first. The evo, when pushed, was understeering. We speculate that there are two things going on here. First, The Evo owner thinks that perhaps the tires (which I forget the brand at the moment) are less than optimal. Second, while the rear sway was set at the tightest setting and the coilovers were adjusted soft up front, the alignment may need adjustment. More front camber and less rear is one suggestion (say -3 and -1 respectively), and maybe a little toe out in the rear, but this is all speculation at the moment. (EDIT: After a recent alignment, it is the general consensus that the EVO’s alignment was not aggressive enough.)

Behind the Evo, the RX8 was having absolutely no trouble keeping up. I was having the most success when I kept the transitions smooth, keeping the DSC out of the picture. I was rowing through 2-3 nice and smooth, keeping the Evo easily within a car length if I felt like pushing it. Unfortunately, we hit a slow mover pretty early, and she would not pull over. We decided (communicating on channel 8 (get it? Evo VIII and RX8) via walky-talky) to pull over and let the car go. The Evo driver's plan was to wait as long as possible to let the slow mover get way ahead, then, just as another car was approaching from behind, we would jump back on the road. This worked for him, but I didn't have time to follow and the executed plan left me behind THREE FRIGGING VESPAS. Who the hell ever thought it was a good idea to drive a Vespa on the gap? Anyway, I was now behind a Vespa going, I kid you not, 20mph. He finally let me pass and I started hauling ***. I would fly into the corner, waiting as long as I could dare, brake hard, rev match-downshift, wait as long as I could to make the turn then roll on the throttle, getting into boost with no sharp edges. Redline 2nd. shift. Rinse and repeat. Occasionally, I would shift to 4th but that was rare (I think just twice and only coming back when I was in front). I caught the other two Vespas and passed them on what looked like a relative straight stretch (straights don’t really exists on the Gap) Again, haul ***. I actually caught the evo just as he got behind another slow mover. We finished the run with laughs and checking the car. Serious fun. On the way back , I took the lead. After only two or three corners it was obvious that the RX8 was way faster. I actually got far enough ahead that I couldn't even see the Evo. The RX8 just ate up the corners, flat as a board. I was flying low. The trees flashed by. The RENESIS was in heaven and shouted with screaming joy. In the corners, the DSC occasionally got in the way as I applied power, setting me straight, but I know that with a little throttle modulation, adjusting thrust angle would have been a piece of cake.

What an incredible machine.

I caught up to a sport bike and had to slow down. The sound the Evo made as he caught back up literally scared me. I thought perhaps a race car passed the Evo and was now bearing down on me. All I heard was this incredibly loud screech as the EVO got large in my rearview mirror as he came around a corner. Scary ****. We eventually got around the bike and again performed *** haulage. The only scary part was flying into a very quick off-camber section near the NC line. This section is going up hill in that direction and has a long set of easy corners. The off-camber section is so quick it is practically a speedbump, particularly at speed. Otherwise, no real scary spots (except for basically the whole road, but you get used to that.)

Later that day, during the group ride, I took my wife, the evo owner and his girlfriend out on the Gap. Because there were so many folks out there, to get any speed going, you would have to practically stop, wait for a space, stomp on it for a 1/3rd of a mile and then slam into the RX8 ahead (or use your brakes; your call). This was less than optimal, so we cut out early from the group that gathered at the end of the Gap and did an 8/10ths run back through with 4 people in the car. I knew when I was going fast enough from the tenor of my wife’s screams in the passenger seat. When she reached up with both hands to the “Jesus Handle” and screamed “SLOW DOWN!” so loud her voice cracked, I knew I had done my job.

Later that night, we took the EVO out as our transportation to dinner. Anyone that has been to the Gap knows that you have to ride the Gap to get anywhere. This is good for us folks that came to ride the tail, but not so good for folks/wives that really couldn’t care less for cars in general. Needless to say, after we got to the restaurant, there was a general revolt in the car and my buddy with the EVO was voted out of the driver’s seat by the women folk for driving like a lunatic. While this was bad for him, it was good for me as I got to drive the EVO home through the gap. Now, I couldn’t drive hard, but I did my best to ease up to driving as hard as I could without upsetting the womenfolk. I have a subtle understanding of the gentler sex and can read their faint body language better than most guys. This was my strategy; I just got faster and faster until I felt that not so gentle slap-in-the-head that was my sign to slow down. Works like a charm.

So my comparison between the cars:

The EVO has mucho power. And it is not just raw power, it is smooth power. With the RX8 (as it is currently set up with the emanage) I constantly have to manage “turbo lash.” That is not terminology that is in common use. In fact, I just made it up right on the spot, so maybe I should define it. Turbo lash is snap acceleration/deceleration that I get when modulating the throttle in boost. It is particularly annoying in a corner as it causes me to lose my line. The EVO is simple in a corner; you just approach the corner in gear (once you know that whatever gear you are in keeps you above 4kprm), let off the throttle, brake, modulate throttle, approach apex, nail throttle, pass apex, rinse, repeat. Bang, zoom.

But in the corner, the RX8 shines. It begs you to enter the corner hot. The hotter the better. Stand on the brake and yank the wheel. No understeer, (the EVO tended to plow), no oversteer, just pure grip and more to spare. There wasn’t a turn on that road that I felt like I couldn’t solve every problem that arose with just a little more throttle. Granted, I have 275 series tires (not sticky rubber, but not bad), beefy sways, somewhat beefy coilovers and an aggressive alignment. Couple that with the extra horsepower of the turbo and you have the makings of a Gap-beast. The only changes that I would make would be even stickier rubber and the interceptor-x (which I have sitting in a box in my basement.)

So considering that I own the RX8 and faced down an EVO and came out on top, you likely would expect me to say the RX8 was the better car. Well, it was more than obviously faster that day, with that set-up on that rather ridiculous example of a road, but I can’t say the RX8 is better. First, it is more that obvious that as a stock car, the EVO is a class above the RX8. It is simply a street legal race car. Second, as a stock car, dollar for dollar, the EVO can be made a faster car (and I don’t mean only in a straight line.) Thirdly, the EVO just “feels” like it was meant to be driven hard, while the RX8 requires “discovery” (and I am still trying to find it that magical mix of engine and suspension mods that make me feel that way.) Finally, while my one RX8 proved to out-handle one EVO on a road riddled with one after another hairpin turn, on any real track with straights and a mix of turns, I may not have been so lucky. I have to take all the factors into consideration to make my vote. And if I were forced to vote on the superior car (not just on that day) I would have to vote with the EVO.

Does that mean I am going to get rid of my RX8? No way, I, in no way, mean to indicate that MY RX8 is inferior to the EVO. Uh uh. My RX8 would likely bury any stock EVO VIII on any track and would feel good doing it. But with a very little amount of dough, that stock EVO would have me looking at his ridiculously large park bench on the trunk. What I am stating, with the power of experience is that even allowing equal amounts of $ for any off the shelf modifications, the EVO overall outclasses the RX8.

But these comparisons are silly, because they are overly general. I like everything about the RX8 and there is NO WAY I would give my car up for a free EVO.

So that was my fun time at the Gap. It was a real blast meeting all the rotorheads there. Everyone was great and a blast to talk to. Our time there was way too short and we weren’t able to talk to nearly enough folks for nearly enough time. Next time we will have to combine it with a vacation and stay awhile.

If you made it this far, thanks for reading!

 

excellent write up

 

Thanks. Long time comin'.

 

+1 I can only dream to drive the gap. lucky bastard..........

 

install the int-x and get it dyno tuned. The car feels a lot nicer when you're in the 280 range rather than 250.

Or get a larger turbo. Maybe you'll change your mind if you're getting 330 whp.

 

Nice writeup, almost like I was there (esp the woman thing and rising voice lol!).

 

wow, great write up! I can relate to the woman sheriking thing- my girlfriend always does it whenever I take a corner over 15mph.

Makes me want to go on a mountain run right now!

 

As the Evo VIII owner in question, I have to agree with carbonRX8 on his assessment. The Evo handling wise was seriously handicapped by a suboptimal alignment (since rectified) and poor rubber (Toyo T1R). I have much less understeer now. I still need to get better tires and am considering Bridgestone RE050 Pole Positions. I just need an extra $900 to buy and install them. My Evo currently has way more power than the Toyo's can manage. Plus the Toyo's are notorious for too soft sidewalls. I also have done additional tuning and I am running a lot stronger power wise than before. My point being that my car is definitely capable of running the Gap even better than during the DGRR. Kudos to carbonRX8 though. His RX8 is truly a great handling machine. It is very well balanced with well chosen mods.

 

Yeah, on my way there. Need more time in the day. I have some time in September.

Keep you posted.
Thank for the positive feedback. It was a blast. Just got done finally looking at the Killboy pics this evening. Good times.

The screamin was a hoot. You could hear true terror. Hey man! Thanks for letting me take the Evo out this weekend. Your car is a blast. Very definitely faster than ever and feels solid.

We need to find a road like the Gap around here. Wonder if it exists? W.Va.?

 

Hey! Bridgestone RE050's; I'm considering those. Tirerack rates them highest in their class.

You guys should go at it again with the Evo's better alignment fixed and the new rubber on

 

If you buy RE050's, get the newer Pole Position models. Way better rated for not much more money. The standard RE050's are more of an OEM tire (eg, Porsche), while the Pole Position models are the newer aftermarket tires. I did a lot of research before making up my mind. My Toyos are fine for now (just driving around town or on the highway), but I will need to upgrade if I do anything more serious.

 

Don't do that. You are in DC. You wont pass emissions.
Get the Ultimate and get it tuned. You might not gain too much power, but you will get rid of your "turbo lash".
You will need a bigger scroll to get comfortably into the 300 range with affecting drivability.

 

well, I'm looking at the RE050's and the Potenza RE-01R's.

And I agree with MM; get your EMU tuned so you don't get a CEL and fail emissions.

Jeff; sent you an email

 

Yes...the Evo is on a very high level.

I would think against a STI the RX8 would be a good match. Although the STI is supposed to be in the same 'class' as an evo.

We don't get evolutions up here in Canada (well until the Evo X comes) and I test drove an STI before I bough the RX8 (AWD is great in winter) but the STI has nothing but power, handling it under steers into everything. The only thing IMO the RX8 lacks is power, it needs 60 more whp.

I don't know why Mitsu can make the evo handle awesome from an FWD econobox chassis, but Subaru can't seem to do the same with the STI for handling from an original AWD chassis.

I wonder how an S2000 would do on that road...as the S2000 although doesn't handle as well IMO as a RX8 it has more usable power and less weight.

The Evo absolutely demolishes anything in it's class. I don't think there is any Japanese car short of an R34 or an NSX-R that could keep up with an Evo IX MR. Again it leads me to think "If mitsu can do it, why couldn't subaru do it with the STI (the spec c limiteds are very different, and it's not fair because you could never make a STI into a spec c limited...at least without lots of $$$ and frame work)

 

Well, I already have the int-x; it has been sitting in my basement in box. I just passed emissions, (in MD) so I have a little more than a year to play.

Your setup for the Ultimate sounds great and is tempting to try before setting up the int-x (not great cost; lots of goodness.) Unfortunately, given my limited time, I think I will stick to what I have for now and see how it goes. It is all for fun anyway. Besides, maybe I can get the CEL to go away.

Interestingly, my biggest worry for the conversion from emanage to int-x is replacing the severed injector wires. If you have any secret tips on this, I would be most appretiative, i.e., direct solder of cut wires, adding new wire and if so, what qualities should the wire have.

 

execellent review, i enjoyed reading it.

 

There is no secret, unfortunately.
You need to solder an inch or so of extra to the plug end and then slide some shrink tube on and re-solder the ends together.
Do them as end-to-end joints, not a twist.
You just need to work fast and delicately.

 

It also helps to have an extra set of hands.

 

I think the only good Subaru's ever produced have been the Spec C or the Litchfield Type 25. My previous car was actually a WRX, and after driving the RX-8, I understood all the handling and power issues with the Subaru. I still can't believe the amount of understeer that the Subaru has, and that a manufacturer believes that it can sell a car with such poor handling characteristics. Also, the turbo system is convoluted and poorly designed as well and provides plenty of lag, even in stock form. I always thought it was funny how butt hurt STI owners got when an EVO would beat them and that they actually thought the EVO was below them, the EVO is a far larger step above the STI then anyone would ever think it to be.

Edit: also, to keep on topic, I really enjoyed the write-up, kinda reinforces the reason why I got an RX-8, its a handling machine

 

It is well known that the 4G63 in the Evo has far more hp potential than the EJ25 in the STI. Also, stock, the Evo is a far better handling and steering vehicle than the STI. An STI needs to be modded just to match a stock Evo in handling. The newly redesigned WRX for 08 is supposedly softer suspension wise. So it's handling will be below the old car and the old car wasn't that great to begin with. (Not sure what the new STI will have though).