DPE's new vehicle. . .
10-04-2006, 09:44 PM
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DPE's new vehicle. . .
Well, after realizing that the RX-8 crowd are my best customers (not to mention the most knowledgable, best looking, and most likely to succeed 
), I figured I ought to personally join the club properly by actually buying an RX-8.
Nothing you guys haven't seen before, just an '04 GT with 35k miles. Totally stock, and one female owner. First mod was a set of Avon M500 tires in 245/40 on the OEM wheels. Hope to pick up some RT-615s on aftermarket wheels next year, but there's only one or two track days left this year so I didn't take that plunge yet. Came with Hankook Ventus V4ES all-seasons, which are pointless for me as I've already got Blizzaks for the winter and prefer summer-tire grip when it isn't winter. Avons were a rather large improvement.
Also added a DPE shift ****, oddly enough.
As for other mods? Well, I'll probably just leave it stock. Who would want to mess with a bunch of aftermarket crap? Okay, seriously, Tokico DSP shocks with Tein H-techs and Whiteline adjustable bars will be going on very soon, followed by a proper alignment. This will allow us to directly compare Tokico shocks with the Koni/H-tech/Whiteline combo that is on our other RX-8. We'll have different tires at first, but actually both plan on RT-615s in the spring to eliminate that variable. Should be interesting to compare.
And I'll do exhaust and intake mods just for grins, and perhaps the Unorthodox pullies as well. No forced induction or anything too exotic in the near term. Rather focus on suspension parts and testing different spring/shock combinations to see what works the best. Then pass on what we learn so YOU guys know what'll work the best for you. We also might try developing a few more of our own parts, but that'll come in time.
I am coming out of an '06 Subaru STI, so there's a bit of a torque difference. Like the RX-8 has about half, and less than half as the STI was modded a bit. What's nice is I'm getting the same gas mileage in the 8 as I was in the STI, without all of that annoying horsepower and torque. But seriously, once I quit driving it like an STI and started whipping it to 9000rpm appropriately, it certainly doesn't feel slow. Just a VERY different motor. Very different chassis too, and of course the edge there goes to the 8. Despite worn OEM shocks, that are too soft when brand new and now make the car obscenely underdamped at 35k miles.
But it's a revelation to have a car that actually goes within a mm of where you point it. The steering and chassis balance is just so damn good. Just need the chassis tweaks to get everything under control, and it's going to be a lot of fun. Which I already know, since I've driven modded ones on track and on the road. My last track experience in one a couple months ago is what confirmed my purchase decision in fact. Didn't get around track faster than the STI of course, but felt a lot better doing it and required more of the driver. Which I like. And I need, because my driving skills have suffered being in Subarus for the past 5 years. Nothing like a proper RWD sports car to make you work for it!
Anyway, I'm sure that's more than anyone wanted to read, but there you have it. I'm 'one of you' now.
), I figured I ought to personally join the club properly by actually buying an RX-8. Nothing you guys haven't seen before, just an '04 GT with 35k miles. Totally stock, and one female owner. First mod was a set of Avon M500 tires in 245/40 on the OEM wheels. Hope to pick up some RT-615s on aftermarket wheels next year, but there's only one or two track days left this year so I didn't take that plunge yet. Came with Hankook Ventus V4ES all-seasons, which are pointless for me as I've already got Blizzaks for the winter and prefer summer-tire grip when it isn't winter. Avons were a rather large improvement.
Also added a DPE shift ****, oddly enough
. As for other mods? Well, I'll probably just leave it stock. Who would want to mess with a bunch of aftermarket crap? Okay, seriously, Tokico DSP shocks with Tein H-techs and Whiteline adjustable bars will be going on very soon, followed by a proper alignment. This will allow us to directly compare Tokico shocks with the Koni/H-tech/Whiteline combo that is on our other RX-8. We'll have different tires at first, but actually both plan on RT-615s in the spring to eliminate that variable. Should be interesting to compare.
And I'll do exhaust and intake mods just for grins, and perhaps the Unorthodox pullies as well. No forced induction or anything too exotic in the near term. Rather focus on suspension parts and testing different spring/shock combinations to see what works the best. Then pass on what we learn so YOU guys know what'll work the best for you
. We also might try developing a few more of our own parts, but that'll come in time.I am coming out of an '06 Subaru STI, so there's a bit of a torque difference. Like the RX-8 has about half, and less than half as the STI was modded a bit. What's nice is I'm getting the same gas mileage in the 8 as I was in the STI, without all of that annoying horsepower and torque
. But seriously, once I quit driving it like an STI and started whipping it to 9000rpm appropriately, it certainly doesn't feel slow. Just a VERY different motor. Very different chassis too, and of course the edge there goes to the 8. Despite worn OEM shocks, that are too soft when brand new and now make the car obscenely underdamped at 35k miles. But it's a revelation to have a car that actually goes within a mm of where you point it. The steering and chassis balance is just so damn good. Just need the chassis tweaks to get everything under control, and it's going to be a lot of fun. Which I already know, since I've driven modded ones on track and on the road. My last track experience in one a couple months ago is what confirmed my purchase decision in fact. Didn't get around track faster than the STI of course, but felt a lot better doing it and required more of the driver. Which I like. And I need, because my driving skills have suffered being in Subarus for the past 5 years. Nothing like a proper RWD sports car to make you work for it!
Anyway, I'm sure that's more than anyone wanted to read, but there you have it. I'm 'one of you' now
.
10-04-2006, 10:13 PM
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Congrats on your purchase. Did you unload the sti or hanging on to it? I bought from you a while back the whiteline bars. I think I need to add more grease though to the bushings because it is making creaking noises. Do you sell that white grease or know what grease I should use. Oh and 1 more question: do you have the konis in stock?
10-04-2006, 10:25 PM
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Let's see, in order:
Thanks!
No, no forced induction right now. We tried a Greddy turbo on our silver one awhile back, but lost patience with it after various tweaks failed to produce anything close to near-OEM levels of drivability. I know you CAN get the car running well with FI, but I'll let others tackle that project.
No problem on the brake pads!
SRT-4 is faster than the 8, sure. Has a bit more torque steer too. Not faster than my old STI though, unless heavily modded.
STI was unloaded. Really nice car, but expensive on care and feeding when you're at the track all the time. And when you have to pay insurance. No one believes my red sports car costs almost 50% less on insurance than my gray sedan, but that is the case. Thank you all for not wrapping RX-8s around trees at the same rate that must happen to STIs.
Yes, grease the bushings. You'll have to do that probably annually. Any kind of white lithium grease or the like will do; if you have trouble finding anything PM me and I can send you some.
Yes, two sets of Konis are in stock at the moment, along with one set of S-techs and 2 sets of H-techs if you are looking for springs as well.
Thanks!
No, no forced induction right now. We tried a Greddy turbo on our silver one awhile back, but lost patience with it after various tweaks failed to produce anything close to near-OEM levels of drivability. I know you CAN get the car running well with FI, but I'll let others tackle that project
.No problem on the brake pads!
SRT-4 is faster than the 8, sure. Has a bit more torque steer too
. Not faster than my old STI though, unless heavily modded. STI was unloaded. Really nice car, but expensive on care and feeding when you're at the track all the time. And when you have to pay insurance. No one believes my red sports car costs almost 50% less on insurance than my gray sedan, but that is the case. Thank you all for not wrapping RX-8s around trees at the same rate that must happen to STIs.
Yes, grease the bushings. You'll have to do that probably annually. Any kind of white lithium grease or the like will do; if you have trouble finding anything PM me and I can send you some.
Yes, two sets of Konis are in stock at the moment, along with one set of S-techs and 2 sets of H-techs if you are looking for springs as well.
10-26-2006, 10:24 AM
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So did you install the Tokico shocks yet?
I am curious about the comparison between Koni and Tokico D Spec. Particularly interested inhow they would hold up over time. I do not want a shock I need to worry about rebuilding or replacing in 60K miles. I want something that can last even when driven on track.
I am leaning toward the D Spec for ease of adjustment in the rear.
I am curious about the comparison between Koni and Tokico D Spec. Particularly interested inhow they would hold up over time. I do not want a shock I need to worry about rebuilding or replacing in 60K miles. I want something that can last even when driven on track.
I am leaning toward the D Spec for ease of adjustment in the rear.
10-26-2006, 08:53 PM
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I'll post more on the D-spec in another thread fairly soon. They are on, with H-techs, and I've got the alignment squared away. A few notes:
- The car feels dramatically better than it did before, but it was on worn out OEM shocks before so anything would be an improvement.
- The D-specs have a wide adjustment range, just like they advertise. They can go from very cushy to almost annoyingly firm.
- Ease of adjustment in the rear is indeed a bonus. Why they don't include the rear adjustment cables is a mystery to me, but if you buy from DPE the cables are always included in the price.
- From memory, Konis seem to start quite a bit firmer at full-soft than Tokicos do. And likewise, can be turned up well beyond what Tokicos can be. You get into compromises with single vs. double-adjustability here (both have their plusses and minuses), and I'll go into that more later.
Anyway, the shocks work, and work very well. I still need to drive them over the same roads back-to-back with the Koni-equipped car, and then I can say with certainty which I prefer or which works better in given situations. The install went just fine, and they bolt right up like OEM shocks or Konis do. Nothing unusual.
I'm hopefully heading down to some mountain roads in Arkansas this Sunday, and after that will have a far better feel for the car when driven in the proper environment. Also going to do a track day at Hallett on November 18th, if the weather holds. And somewhere in there I should be able to drive the Koni car and mine back-to-back, but I'm not certain as he is fairly busy and may not make it to some of these outings.
Here's a pic on Tokicos and H-techs. It's a bit misleading because of the way my driveway is shaped the car is not sitting on a perfectly flat surface. The rear end actually sits a bit higher than what it looks like, but that'll give you a good idea. That's Tokicos (which do exactly nothing to ride-height), Tein H-techs (which lowered my car 22mm front and 5mm rear), and it's on Avon M500s in 245/40.
- The car feels dramatically better than it did before, but it was on worn out OEM shocks before so anything would be an improvement.
- The D-specs have a wide adjustment range, just like they advertise. They can go from very cushy to almost annoyingly firm.
- Ease of adjustment in the rear is indeed a bonus. Why they don't include the rear adjustment cables is a mystery to me, but if you buy from DPE the cables are always included in the price.
- From memory, Konis seem to start quite a bit firmer at full-soft than Tokicos do. And likewise, can be turned up well beyond what Tokicos can be. You get into compromises with single vs. double-adjustability here (both have their plusses and minuses), and I'll go into that more later.
Anyway, the shocks work, and work very well. I still need to drive them over the same roads back-to-back with the Koni-equipped car, and then I can say with certainty which I prefer or which works better in given situations. The install went just fine, and they bolt right up like OEM shocks or Konis do. Nothing unusual.
I'm hopefully heading down to some mountain roads in Arkansas this Sunday, and after that will have a far better feel for the car when driven in the proper environment. Also going to do a track day at Hallett on November 18th, if the weather holds. And somewhere in there I should be able to drive the Koni car and mine back-to-back, but I'm not certain as he is fairly busy and may not make it to some of these outings.
Here's a pic on Tokicos and H-techs. It's a bit misleading because of the way my driveway is shaped the car is not sitting on a perfectly flat surface. The rear end actually sits a bit higher than what it looks like, but that'll give you a good idea. That's Tokicos (which do exactly nothing to ride-height), Tein H-techs (which lowered my car 22mm front and 5mm rear), and it's on Avon M500s in 245/40.
11-23-2006, 08:52 PM
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Sorry! Driving the Koni car back-to-back with mine next Wednesday (hopefully), and was going to hold all impressions until then. I'll just say this, for starters:
- The car handled quite nicely on the mountain roads in Arkansas. Had to keep the shocks up pretty high (5 of 7 turns) to keep the body under control, but once up there they did well. The car was compliant enough to handle the bumps, but mostly stiff enough to control the body motions. I do look forward to swaybars though; still too much roll.
- At the track, I sadly got only 3 of my 7 sessions as I fell quite ill at lunch time. Great time for a stomach virus, being at the track and all! But I did get a little time, and in my third session ran a crappy-but-not-embarassing lap time. The car simply felt too soft in that environment. The shocks seemed to be doing their job, but turned up even further (6 turns of 7), I still felt like the chassis bounded around a bit much. Once again, sways may help some of that, but I don't recall the same sensation in the Koni car. I drove the Koni car at MAM though, which is a much smoother and flatter track than Hallett, so it's hard to say for sure. And the Koni car has Whiteline adjustable swaybars on it.
Ultimately, what I believe my conclusion will be is that Konis are superior shocks that ultimately provide better control and contribute to superior handling. I think a good part of the reason that will be the case is due to the Konis being only rebound adjustable and having a 'just right' compression setting. When you turn up the Tokicos, you turn up compression and rebound. This can make the car start to feel skittish over bumps because your compression setting isn't compliant enough, but you feel like you need the shocks turned up that high to get the rebound control you want.
BUT, until we compare them back to back I can't say the above is my final verdict. And I can say that the Tokicos are excellent shocks, and the fact rear adjustment takes 2 minutes instead of 2 hours is obviously a huge benefit. Not to mention, the Tokicos are capable of a near-Buick like ride that the Konis cannot provide even in the softest settings. That said, my Tokicos won't find themselves below halfway very often, if ever. The car really rides just fine with them at 50%.
Anyway, sorry for the delay in updating this; more next week!
- The car handled quite nicely on the mountain roads in Arkansas. Had to keep the shocks up pretty high (5 of 7 turns) to keep the body under control, but once up there they did well. The car was compliant enough to handle the bumps, but mostly stiff enough to control the body motions. I do look forward to swaybars though; still too much roll.
- At the track, I sadly got only 3 of my 7 sessions as I fell quite ill at lunch time. Great time for a stomach virus, being at the track and all! But I did get a little time, and in my third session ran a crappy-but-not-embarassing lap time. The car simply felt too soft in that environment. The shocks seemed to be doing their job, but turned up even further (6 turns of 7), I still felt like the chassis bounded around a bit much. Once again, sways may help some of that, but I don't recall the same sensation in the Koni car. I drove the Koni car at MAM though, which is a much smoother and flatter track than Hallett, so it's hard to say for sure. And the Koni car has Whiteline adjustable swaybars on it.
Ultimately, what I believe my conclusion will be is that Konis are superior shocks that ultimately provide better control and contribute to superior handling. I think a good part of the reason that will be the case is due to the Konis being only rebound adjustable and having a 'just right' compression setting. When you turn up the Tokicos, you turn up compression and rebound. This can make the car start to feel skittish over bumps because your compression setting isn't compliant enough, but you feel like you need the shocks turned up that high to get the rebound control you want.
BUT, until we compare them back to back I can't say the above is my final verdict. And I can say that the Tokicos are excellent shocks, and the fact rear adjustment takes 2 minutes instead of 2 hours is obviously a huge benefit. Not to mention, the Tokicos are capable of a near-Buick like ride that the Konis cannot provide even in the softest settings. That said, my Tokicos won't find themselves below halfway very often, if ever. The car really rides just fine with them at 50%.
Anyway, sorry for the delay in updating this; more next week!
11-30-2006, 10:59 AM
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A poorly-timed ice storm here in KC precluded any sporting driving or shock comparos. Sorry about that. His car has Dunlop Graspics on it now and mine is shod with Blizzaks. Not ideal. Though if we get the 3-14 inches of snow that's in the forecast (which vary wildly), it'll be good to have those tires on the car.
We'll try and get to it as soon as possible; if it warms up after this snowstorm and we can get back to summer tires and meet up. Until then, sadly, we're on hold. . .
We'll try and get to it as soon as possible; if it warms up after this snowstorm and we can get back to summer tires and meet up. Until then, sadly, we're on hold. . .
11-30-2006, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by DPE
A poorly-timed ice storm here in KC precluded any sporting driving or shock comparos. Sorry about that. His car has Dunlop Graspics on it now and mine is shod with Blizzaks. Not ideal. Though if we get the 3-14 inches of snow that's in the forecast (which vary wildly), it'll be good to have those tires on the car.
We'll try and get to it as soon as possible; if it warms up after this snowstorm and we can get back to summer tires and meet up. Until then, sadly, we're on hold. . .
We'll try and get to it as soon as possible; if it warms up after this snowstorm and we can get back to summer tires and meet up. Until then, sadly, we're on hold. . .
12-01-2006, 11:07 PM
#21
Originally Posted by DPE
What's nice is I'm getting the same gas mileage in the 8 as I was in the STI, without all of that annoying horsepower and torque
. Hi Phil - cool that you now have an 8 - sounds like you will even more valuable to the community now.
I was most impressed with your customer service when I bought some parts off you a few months back (unlike another vendor I dealt with).
12-04-2006, 09:45 AM
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Glad to be here! And glad we can be of service. Now if this pesky winter wouldn't spoil all of our driving fun, perhaps we could really get after the suspension mods and talk about that! It was 70 degrees here last Tuesday, and since falling to 28 or so on Wednesday it hasn't been above freezing since. Supposed to get better today though, and if it continues to improve then maybe the summer tires can go back on. . .
12-14-2006, 10:53 PM
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Lennart! Always good to hear from you! Indeed, I am liking the car. And we finally got a chance to test out Tokico vs. Koni; I'm going to make a new thread on that right now in my forum here. . .