350Z vs RX-8 comparison: AUTOCAR
07-29-2003, 06:42 AM
#1
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350Z vs RX-8 comparison: AUTOCAR
Just picked up this weeks Autocar. A nice 6-page review between the RX-8 and 350Z.
Just about to read over my lunchtime sandwich, so i'll update in a half hour
Go grab one during your lunch break!
-andy-
Just about to read over my lunchtime sandwich, so i'll update in a half hour
Go grab one during your lunch break!
-andy-
07-29-2003, 06:58 AM
#3
Originally posted by mjv
They liked it. But had a number of criticisms.
Bodyroll (due to lack of B pillar)
Driving position (steering wheel only adusts for rake)
Gear lever (too short, too far back)
Torque (lack of)
Despite this they were very positive but they did prefer the Z.
They liked it. But had a number of criticisms.
Bodyroll (due to lack of B pillar)
Driving position (steering wheel only adusts for rake)
Gear lever (too short, too far back)
Torque (lack of)
Despite this they were very positive but they did prefer the Z.
WTF has a b-pillar got to do with body roll? scuttle shake/body flex maybee but roll???
Sure wheel only adhusts for rake, but personaly I havnt driven a car with anything else..
Gear leaver - to short? can it be? It snot a transit for gawdsakes! - To far back? is the guy an Ape? its almost in the centre console - prehaps he's been driving his civic breadvanR for too long.
Torque(or lack off) - OK, he didnt get it over 4krpm I bet...Poor guy probably didnt change gear out of 6thas he's a breadvanR driving uragutang.
Still dont get the 350z/RX8 comparisons , why? ok ,theyre both new and from japan. Would you compare it against the porker 4x4 too?
07-29-2003, 06:58 AM
#4
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Beaten to it...
But yes, seems they preferred the 350Z, although that doesn't mean they didn't like the RX-8.
Seems they didn't like the lack of torque in the RX-8, along with the ride-height and associated body-roll. They didn't like the interior on the Nissan though, but felt that the pokey V6 and rear-wheel drive was enough to over look this as a "drivers" car.
Final comment.....
"[The Nissan] is the better car of the two. Faster, more accomplished and, most would agree, better looking. But there's an underlying appeal to the Mazda that just about every other car lacks. It's a unique concept that harsher critics will no doubt labast as pointless: simultaneously a coupe blessed with average handling and performance and a four-door saloon with negligible cabin and boot space. But to reach that conclusion is to ignore the engineering appeal of the Mazda: it is something drastically different. The world needs cars like the RX-8, but I suspect it will buy cars like the 350Z."
-andy-
But yes, seems they preferred the 350Z, although that doesn't mean they didn't like the RX-8.
Seems they didn't like the lack of torque in the RX-8, along with the ride-height and associated body-roll. They didn't like the interior on the Nissan though, but felt that the pokey V6 and rear-wheel drive was enough to over look this as a "drivers" car.
Final comment.....
"[The Nissan] is the better car of the two. Faster, more accomplished and, most would agree, better looking. But there's an underlying appeal to the Mazda that just about every other car lacks. It's a unique concept that harsher critics will no doubt labast as pointless: simultaneously a coupe blessed with average handling and performance and a four-door saloon with negligible cabin and boot space. But to reach that conclusion is to ignore the engineering appeal of the Mazda: it is something drastically different. The world needs cars like the RX-8, but I suspect it will buy cars like the 350Z."
-andy-
07-29-2003, 07:13 AM
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Just read the whole thing -
That is a dreadful review.
Without a doubt the single worst , most negative , critical review I have yet read.
This does not sound like the same car ! ! !
I have never heard some of the critisisms he levels at the car (and lets face it , I have read reams and reams of RX8 stuff)
Mazda do not need reviews like this.
Morgan.
PS - If rael and the other 'low torque' lot read this , they will be off ! I dont have a scanner - anyone ?
That is a dreadful review.
Without a doubt the single worst , most negative , critical review I have yet read.
This does not sound like the same car ! ! !
I have never heard some of the critisisms he levels at the car (and lets face it , I have read reams and reams of RX8 stuff)
Mazda do not need reviews like this.
Morgan.
PS - If rael and the other 'low torque' lot read this , they will be off ! I dont have a scanner - anyone ?
07-29-2003, 07:23 AM
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I must admit I did wonder about some of the comments. Maybe they got a nice advertising deal with Nissan... 
B-pillar comment wasn't in regard to body-roll (that was the ride-height), but "removing the B-pillar to facilitate the clever searing arrangement is one thing, but over heaving, treacherous, minor roads there was some flex from the bodyshell and the odd shiver through the steering column. The suspicion remains that the RX-8 has been signed off a little on the soft side because the shell wouldn't take it any other way."
As for torque - they did drive it hard; "Mazda fun to drive hard (and you'll have to) but body roll and muffled steering disappoint".
"Only at 4000rpm does the RX-8 start to work and even then you need to move beyond 6000rpm before the 228bhp claim doesn't seem like a rather large fib."
-andy-
B-pillar comment wasn't in regard to body-roll (that was the ride-height), but "removing the B-pillar to facilitate the clever searing arrangement is one thing, but over heaving, treacherous, minor roads there was some flex from the bodyshell and the odd shiver through the steering column. The suspicion remains that the RX-8 has been signed off a little on the soft side because the shell wouldn't take it any other way."
As for torque - they did drive it hard; "Mazda fun to drive hard (and you'll have to) but body roll and muffled steering disappoint".
"Only at 4000rpm does the RX-8 start to work and even then you need to move beyond 6000rpm before the 228bhp claim doesn't seem like a rather large fib."
-andy-
07-29-2003, 07:23 AM
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I read the review this morning and was a bit put off by a few things. The body flex that they mention, the "ill-chosen gear ratios" and the "biggerwheel arch gaps than an Audi Allroader".
Rob - they did rev it over 4000 and said it only really comes to life after this point but this makes it a lot of work to drive in normal conditions.
On the plus side they really like the interior (poor positioning of the gear stick and incomfortable driving position excepting.)
The body roll issue the reviewer thinks is because "The suspicion remians that the RX-8 has been signed off a little on the soft side because the shell wouldn't take it any other way."
It's not a bad enough review to put me off completely but it is giving me second thoughts about the purchase (the RX8 rollercoaster starts downward again!!)
The other interesting bit in the magazine was that Mazda are planning an new RX-7 using many RX-8 components inc the RENESIS but with wider rotor chamber making it about 1.6 l and developing over 300bhp.
Rob - they did rev it over 4000 and said it only really comes to life after this point but this makes it a lot of work to drive in normal conditions.
On the plus side they really like the interior (poor positioning of the gear stick and incomfortable driving position excepting.)
The body roll issue the reviewer thinks is because "The suspicion remians that the RX-8 has been signed off a little on the soft side because the shell wouldn't take it any other way."
It's not a bad enough review to put me off completely but it is giving me second thoughts about the purchase (the RX8 rollercoaster starts downward again!!)
The other interesting bit in the magazine was that Mazda are planning an new RX-7 using many RX-8 components inc the RENESIS but with wider rotor chamber making it about 1.6 l and developing over 300bhp.
07-29-2003, 07:26 AM
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I can scan, but not until I get home this evening.
Forgot to mention the new RX-7 preview in the news section too.
A reworked version of the Renesis lump - wider rotors, bumped up to 1.6 litres with a higher redline and performance around the 300bhp mark.
Wonder if it'll fit into an RX-8..
-andy-
Forgot to mention the new RX-7 preview in the news section too.
A reworked version of the Renesis lump - wider rotors, bumped up to 1.6 litres with a higher redline and performance around the 300bhp mark.
Wonder if it'll fit into an RX-8..
-andy-
07-29-2003, 07:27 AM
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Originally posted by morganrogers
"most would agree , better looking..." ????
You SURE it was the RX8 ?
What on earth are they on...
"most would agree , better looking..." ????
You SURE it was the RX8 ?
What on earth are they on...
Regarding the wheel arch gap.It's been mentioned quite a few times on these forums and each time we are re-assured that it will be mmuck lower on the production UK cars - looks like this is not the case.
Last edited by AndyPearce; 07-29-2003 at 07:29 AM.
07-29-2003, 07:34 AM
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I expect to go up to 4000 before the 8 take off being used to high reving my cars but some of the other (and new) negative points are not good news.
And RX7 promise sounds interesting for those happy with 2 seats.
rael
And RX7 promise sounds interesting for those happy with 2 seats.
rael
07-29-2003, 07:41 AM
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Im not that fussed about most of it. Autocar have been out on their own in being critical of the 8 in previous reviews, and they often seem at odds with others.
Look at Autocar as the tabloid press,and wait to see what the more quality mags come out with soon (Evo, Car etc). Even Topgear have been very enthusiastic so far.
Some of the comments are just plain ridiculous as they have not been mentioned in mag reviews of by owners anywhere else.
Points:
What do they mean by "Why dont you ever see the car a a whole"?
Ride Height - They say the ride height is worse than an Audi Allroad, but from what weve been told, and pics weve seen from the US this does not seem to be the case.
Torque - Doesnt bother me, as owners reports are good and i WANT to rev my engine for gods sake! If they want lots of torque get a 330D
Gear ratios - Will have to wait until I drive, but others have not mentioned this. 5/6 are high geared for fuel economy on the m'way etc.
Looks - How can anyone say the 350Z is nicer FFS?? Everyone I know prefers the 8 ,even those who are not into cars.
Driving Position - They have problems with the wheel and gear lever. Felt spot on to me. Early reports from US owners do not indicate any issues with this.
Handling/body roll - Will have to wait and see, but they are saying removing the B-piller is causing the body to flex, and therefore it has been set up with too soft a ride. I havent heard anyone lese mention this.
There are some positives as well, but I think a lot of the comments are subjective and ill-founded and I would encourage everyone not to be disheartened by this.
Cheers
Mark
Look at Autocar as the tabloid press,and wait to see what the more quality mags come out with soon (Evo, Car etc). Even Topgear have been very enthusiastic so far.
Some of the comments are just plain ridiculous as they have not been mentioned in mag reviews of by owners anywhere else.
Points:
What do they mean by "Why dont you ever see the car a a whole"?
Ride Height - They say the ride height is worse than an Audi Allroad, but from what weve been told, and pics weve seen from the US this does not seem to be the case.
Torque - Doesnt bother me, as owners reports are good and i WANT to rev my engine for gods sake! If they want lots of torque get a 330D
Gear ratios - Will have to wait until I drive, but others have not mentioned this. 5/6 are high geared for fuel economy on the m'way etc.
Looks - How can anyone say the 350Z is nicer FFS?? Everyone I know prefers the 8 ,even those who are not into cars.
Driving Position - They have problems with the wheel and gear lever. Felt spot on to me. Early reports from US owners do not indicate any issues with this.
Handling/body roll - Will have to wait and see, but they are saying removing the B-piller is causing the body to flex, and therefore it has been set up with too soft a ride. I havent heard anyone lese mention this.
There are some positives as well, but I think a lot of the comments are subjective and ill-founded and I would encourage everyone not to be disheartened by this.
Cheers
Mark
07-29-2003, 07:49 AM
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Haven't read the article, but Barnes and Noble should have the issue in a week.
But from what's posted so far here, the RX-8 reviewed is not the RX-8 I've driven.
Yes there is body-roll (which so far is the only accurate comment), but it's well controlled and grip is very high.
Body-Flex? The road here are horrible and the not a squeak or vibration. The car is very stiff.
From: http://www.rx8forum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7547
But from what's posted so far here, the RX-8 reviewed is not the RX-8 I've driven.
Yes there is body-roll (which so far is the only accurate comment), but it's well controlled and grip is very high.
Body-Flex? The road here are horrible and the not a squeak or vibration. The car is very stiff.
From: http://www.rx8forum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7547
Handling:
This car handles exactly the way it should! Near perfect suspension geometry and calibration for a street oriented sportscar.
What do I mean by that? While there is body roll, do not mistake this for poor balance or low grip. The car's handling is neutral and grip seems very, very high. Even with the RE040, which I am not the biggest fan of to be honest. But the suspension is capable of keeping the best tire contact patch possible. The car never got upset, and I tried to by hitting bumps and potholes mid-corner. In this way it's just like a BMW, it's going far faster than you think around a corner and always holds its line.
There is one major difference between the BMW 3 and the RX-8, steering feel! While both cars are able to use the maximum grip of the tires and eat up mid-corner bumps with ease the RX-8 lets you know exactly what's going on through the steering wheel. There is very (if any) isolation from the tires.
The RX-8 also has better turn-in and a more stable rear. The chassis of the RX-8 is truly a revelation of how good a sportscar an everyday driver can be.
This car handles exactly the way it should! Near perfect suspension geometry and calibration for a street oriented sportscar.
What do I mean by that? While there is body roll, do not mistake this for poor balance or low grip. The car's handling is neutral and grip seems very, very high. Even with the RE040, which I am not the biggest fan of to be honest. But the suspension is capable of keeping the best tire contact patch possible. The car never got upset, and I tried to by hitting bumps and potholes mid-corner. In this way it's just like a BMW, it's going far faster than you think around a corner and always holds its line.
There is one major difference between the BMW 3 and the RX-8, steering feel! While both cars are able to use the maximum grip of the tires and eat up mid-corner bumps with ease the RX-8 lets you know exactly what's going on through the steering wheel. There is very (if any) isolation from the tires.
The RX-8 also has better turn-in and a more stable rear. The chassis of the RX-8 is truly a revelation of how good a sportscar an everyday driver can be.
Last edited by RomanoM; 07-29-2003 at 08:18 AM.
07-29-2003, 08:07 AM
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I have only read a small portion of the review and I dn't think I am alone in thinking that Autocar is a big stinking pile of *****.
I am just disappointed I wasted £2.10 on the mag before reading this thread.
I hope that this clearly biased and deranged review doesn't put people off the better (by a long way) of the two cars.
As Jim Royale would say "350Z my ****"
Chris
I am just disappointed I wasted £2.10 on the mag before reading this thread.
I hope that this clearly biased and deranged review doesn't put people off the better (by a long way) of the two cars.
As Jim Royale would say "350Z my ****"
Chris
07-29-2003, 08:21 AM
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I won't be wasting my money on the mag!
I must say that it completely contradicts ALL the great owner reviews we have read lately from US, AUS and Japan.
I would rather read the accounts of guys that are living with the 8 on a daily basis as we'll have to live with it too.
I'm not bothered about it.
Looking forward to CAR and EVO though.
Cheers
Oilman
I must say that it completely contradicts ALL the great owner reviews we have read lately from US, AUS and Japan.
I would rather read the accounts of guys that are living with the 8 on a daily basis as we'll have to live with it too.
I'm not bothered about it.
Looking forward to CAR and EVO though.
Cheers
Oilman
07-29-2003, 08:34 AM
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I'm quite happy to discount what Autocar have to say - it's been obvious for a while that they don't like this car and every time they review it they just try harder to find more evidence to support their prejudices (what has happened to Autocar in the last couple of years by the way - they used to be quite good?)
However, I will be keen to see if other more trustworthy reviewers come up with similar comments. I'm particularly worried about the body roll, which has also been commented on by some US reviewers. It would be bizarre to go to all the trouble of getting 50:50 weight balance and low mass and then throw it all away with soggy suspension. "Average Handling"?. I certainly hope not.
However, I will be keen to see if other more trustworthy reviewers come up with similar comments. I'm particularly worried about the body roll, which has also been commented on by some US reviewers. It would be bizarre to go to all the trouble of getting 50:50 weight balance and low mass and then throw it all away with soggy suspension. "Average Handling"?. I certainly hope not.
07-29-2003, 09:01 AM
#21
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Originally posted by ChrisW
I'm particularly worried about the body roll, which has also been commented on by some US reviewers. It would be bizarre to go to all the trouble of getting 50:50 weight balance and low mass and then throw it all away with soggy suspension. "Average Handling"?. I certainly hope not.
I'm particularly worried about the body roll, which has also been commented on by some US reviewers. It would be bizarre to go to all the trouble of getting 50:50 weight balance and low mass and then throw it all away with soggy suspension. "Average Handling"?. I certainly hope not.
You can of course cut body roll more with aftermarket springs and anti-roll bars.
But IMO the balance between ride and handling is perfect for the street.
It's very much like a really well done Euro sport-sedan with the benefit of being far lighter than most of those and having great steering.
Soggy? No!:D
07-29-2003, 09:58 AM
#22
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(So annoyed I'm posting my response here as well!)
Got the mag on my desk at the moment.
The thing that astounds me the most is he seems to pick on the things that most other reviews have found to be outstanding features of the car.
He says 'the steering is spongy and unresponsive'... WTF!
'The ride height is like an off roader' (Did he manage to test drive a pre prod???)
He thinks the gear lever is in the wrong place and couldn't find a comfatable driving position. Is he an Orangutan or something. (Sorry Rob didn't mean to steal your comment but it's the only animal that comes to mind to match this guys apparent build)
And lastly the body roll, the RX-8 has the same torsional and bending strength/resistance as the BMW coupe, I'm sure he would never say the BMW flexed unde heavy cornering force.
Even his praises were often couched in negative terms and then were often followed up with positive comments about the 350Z.
I believe he has a Nissan 350Z sponsorship deal or is in unnatural love with the car (see photo in earlier car sex thread).
He is obviously heavily biased towards the 350Z and as such I feel we should completly ignore this review or at leas bear this in mind while reading it.
Got the mag on my desk at the moment.
The thing that astounds me the most is he seems to pick on the things that most other reviews have found to be outstanding features of the car.
He says 'the steering is spongy and unresponsive'... WTF!
'The ride height is like an off roader' (Did he manage to test drive a pre prod???)
He thinks the gear lever is in the wrong place and couldn't find a comfatable driving position. Is he an Orangutan or something. (Sorry Rob didn't mean to steal your comment but it's the only animal that comes to mind to match this guys apparent build)
And lastly the body roll, the RX-8 has the same torsional and bending strength/resistance as the BMW coupe, I'm sure he would never say the BMW flexed unde heavy cornering force.
Even his praises were often couched in negative terms and then were often followed up with positive comments about the 350Z.
I believe he has a Nissan 350Z sponsorship deal or is in unnatural love with the car (see photo in earlier car sex thread).
He is obviously heavily biased towards the 350Z and as such I feel we should completly ignore this review or at leas bear this in mind while reading it.
07-29-2003, 10:03 AM
#23
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Don't hold back! :D
Admittedly, suspension changes are high on my to-do list anyway, since I'd like to get the ride height a little lower to enhance the look of the Mazdaspeed kit. But I am also hoping that the standard setup is good enough that I won't feel the need to go out and do it too soon.... Let's hope that's the case!
-andy-
Admittedly, suspension changes are high on my to-do list anyway, since I'd like to get the ride height a little lower to enhance the look of the Mazdaspeed kit. But I am also hoping that the standard setup is good enough that I won't feel the need to go out and do it too soon.... Let's hope that's the case!
-andy-
07-29-2003, 10:09 AM
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Originally posted by MarkW
Some of the comments are just plain ridiculous as they have not been mentioned in mag reviews of by owners anywhere else.
Points:
Gear ratios - Will have to wait until I drive, but others have not mentioned this. 5/6 are high geared for fuel economy on the m'way etc.
Cheers
Mark
Some of the comments are just plain ridiculous as they have not been mentioned in mag reviews of by owners anywhere else.
Points:
Gear ratios - Will have to wait until I drive, but others have not mentioned this. 5/6 are high geared for fuel economy on the m'way etc.
Cheers
Mark
FWIW
07-29-2003, 10:30 AM
#25
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Realistically, if you can get to 60mph in 2nd gear and I think I read a review on Rotary News that 98mph can be acheived in 3rd gear.
Does the fact that 5th and 6th are "too long" for normal driving really matter?
Under non-motorway driving I would imagine that if revs are kept fairly high, above 4000 rpm, you will rarely be using 5th and 6th.
IMHO anyway.
I hope you understand what I mean.
Chris
Does the fact that 5th and 6th are "too long" for normal driving really matter?
Under non-motorway driving I would imagine that if revs are kept fairly high, above 4000 rpm, you will rarely be using 5th and 6th.
IMHO anyway.
I hope you understand what I mean.
Chris